DiyLightAnimation

Hardware => Lynx Express => Topic started by: CaptKirk on January 26, 2011,

Title: LE program display
Post by: CaptKirk on January 26, 2011,
RJ,

I was needing to productively use some time in an online meeting and got thinking about the LE display.  And I thought about the sometimes confusion about the representation of the letters PRG you used on the 7 segs.  I did a little research and I found that you did not use the usual segment pattern for the "R" and I also found a better "G" that is not like any other number.

From Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display_character_representations
 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven-segment_display_character_representations)

For the R, I like the left most image here:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/7-segment_eg.svg/60px-7-segment_eg.svg.png)

For the G I like the left image:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/7-segment_acdef.svg/60px-7-segment_acdef.svg.png)

Resulting in:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8e/7-segment_abefg.svg/60px-7-segment_abefg.svg.png)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/7-segment_eg.svg/60px-7-segment_eg.svg.png)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/7-segment_acdef.svg/60px-7-segment_acdef.svg.png)


That could not be confused with anything number related!  No more questions as to what PA6 means!


What do you think?

Kirk
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: gforman on January 26, 2011,
I have been a few meetings like that. <fp.

Glen
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: CaptKirk on January 26, 2011,
Yeah so I could either go throttle some people within inches of their lives   <md.. , OR bug RJ with minutia.  RJ won!!   <yk..
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: RJ on January 26, 2011,
Thanks but I think it is fine as it is.

RJ
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: CaptKirk on January 26, 2011,


So what does PA6 stand for again??
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 26, 2011,
it's the first part of...


Pennsylvania 6-5000     lol!
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: rrowan on January 26, 2011,
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So what does PA6 stand for again??

Wow

Really??

Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: CaptKirk on January 26, 2011,
<uncalled for rant removed by author>
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: rrowan on January 26, 2011,
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No not really- just making my point.  A parting shot as I give up after unsuccessfully attempting to influence what obviously is already a perfect design.  How could there possibly be ANY way to improve perfection.  I just need to stop trying and just use them as intended.  No need to try to improve confusing dispalys, or fix documentation that is incomplete and inaccurate, or to try to make it easier for the next guy to get over the steep learning curves because how could any of those sorts of issues exist.  Just saying.  Don't get me wrong I love the designs, really appreciate the hard work involved in making them avaialble- so much so I was offering my help. But I guess if you are not in the "inner circle" then don't even attempt to make suggestions because how could someone with over 30 years experience in the electronics and computer industries across a wide variety of product offerings and disciplines (including tech doc and customer support) possibly know anything about improving a product or increasing "user friendliness".  

And yes I *AM* having a bad day....   <md..  been working late working on Aethers and not getting enough sleep...  and can't type...

Do you feel better now? Get everything off of your chest?

First there is no inner circle. This site and all Lynx hardware is all RJ's baby. He designs what he wants and how he wants to use and then shares it with the members. Of course there is always something that can be added or changed if warrant and time available. So a proper way would be Hey RJ the next time you are working on the firmware for the LE can you take a look at my suggestion. You can't take the stance that RJ works for you and you start demanding things on him like he is your employee.

I can guarantee one thing. Any suggestion that might make sense to you but can cause a newbie or inexperience person a safety risk will not be done. (read your fuse change for the Aether)

Rick R.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: RJ on January 26, 2011,
I was not going to respond to the post but changed my mind.

I neither believe the design is perfect nor do I believe it can not be improved this is you saying this. But lets look at your issue. We have many thousands of these out in the world in use. I can not get them out fast enough nor keep up with demand. And how many people have had issues with this ? 

I will let you guess.

DLA is founded on a few principals that I and a few members that founded it dreamed up and believe was a good way to open up DIY to everyone not just highly technical people.

One of these is that we would not have technical talk on the open forum so it appeared as easy as it really is to new users to build DIY instead of making them think they are stupid and can not do it.

That we not let people redesign existing items so that there is consistence in the builds and troubleshooting so all builders become experts to help others since they would be building identical items. There is really no reason for 5 different layouts for a 4 channel SSR on the forum and just causes more difficultly for the newer users.

That we let people design things the way they want and see what happens with no requirements as to what they must provide (source code, pcb layouts, schematics).

With that said you getting upset because I did not change an existing design of mine that has been out for years and has many thousands working fine the way they are, because a new user got board in a meeting and decided he did not like the way it looked, is something I will have to just live with.

As far as the "inner circle" I can only assume you mean the staff at DLA. You know those people that do all the work behind the scenes for no pay so members like you can benefit. The ones that help start DLA in some cases. Yes they are the inner circle along with all of the users that chip in and help to make it run. Every coop manager that sorts hundreds or thousands of parts so members can save money. The users that jump on the post of a user needing help with an issue or just reassuring them the correct way to put the part on. They are my inner circle.  The user that creates the next neat item and puts it out for all to use. They are my inner circle.

But none of them are asking me to change my stuff to make them happy and when they have in the past, If I did not they did not get upset and post similar post.

I understand you were trying to help. But everyone of the 2000 users on DLA have opinions, I can not try to please everyone but make myself happy and if a minor change early on in the life of a design that does not make me unhappy makes some happy I do it.  Otherwise I build them for me and offer them to others.

RJ
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: OkieJay on January 26, 2011,
Well said.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: Rainlover on January 26, 2011,
 <res.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: onesmoothhead on January 26, 2011,
 <res. to RJ and rrowen and the people making this site work.  I consider you all my friends and support in the only hobby my life affords.

from a non-inner circle.  All i can say is thank you and goodnight.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: trekster on January 27, 2011,
Hey Kirk....  For some reason the episode title "I MUDD" comes to mind.  Not the episode just the title.

Sorry, I could not resist.......                           <la..

TREKSTER

"I, Mudd" is a second season episode of Star Trek: The Original Series first broadcast November 3, 1967
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: lineman on January 27, 2011,
Hey Kirk

First I would like to say I am sorry you are haveing a bad day, and their is a inner circle and you are part of it all DLA members are. I thank you for all your suggestions and encourage you to keep thinking but remember RJ made this site so it is his baby and he allows us to join in. from what I have seen RJ and Staff have always looked at all suggestions and if warranted have used them. I am a 1 year newbie with no prior knowledge of any electronics or computer skills so I am no expert but with the help from this site I am learning and feel great about it. God Bless you and have a wonderful day, OK beam me up scotty :D
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: rogerwh on January 27, 2011,
I knew it!  I knew it!  There is an "inner circle" and RJ and gang are actually designing robotic machines that will soon turn on us and start controlling our lives.  Br careful with the firmware updates as soon one of them will contain the command to activate these machine monsters.  The worst part is they have somehow tricked us into believeing these are light controllers and getting us to help build them for our own demise! 

Seriously Capt. I thought everything was pretty all the way through your recommendation of changing the display.  That's what this site is built on is suggestions from users.  But when RJ disagreed instead of trying to support your suggestions you immediately went into a belittling and in my mind rather insulting post alleging arrogance on RJ's part because there was no other reson in your mind that he would ignore your valuable opinion, etc.  Not cool.  If you stick around for a while you'll see that nothing could be further from the truth.  The reason many of us are here versus other sites is because no matter how little knowledge you have of electronics, computers, software, etc., they keep it simple and do their level best to make newbies not feel inimidated or otherwise show their "superiority" in terms of knowledge.  Most folks that have that level knowledge either have difficulty in "dumbing it down" so common folks can understand it or else become frustrated in having to do so.  I've never seen an example of that on these boards from any of the regular users. 

My suggestion is that you realize that these are RJ's products and suggestions for improvement are welcome.  But, it is his decision as to whether to change or not and if he decides not to either let it go or provide some constructive reasoning as to why it should change.  If it's a good suggestion, others here will chime in and RJ will likley give it a second look.  Also remember that this is the "home field" for these products.  Criticizing any memebers of the "home team" is not going to win you many supporters.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: knguyen916 on January 27, 2011,
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I neither believe the design is perfect nor do I believe it can not be improved...

Off topic, what I'm wondering now is what new features are you thinking of?  ;) j/k Have a wonderful day everyone.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: CaptKirk on January 27, 2011,
rogerwh,

Good advice.   I agree- this stuff and site is RJ's ONLY.  RJ is good, really good and generous.  Unbelievably so to share these wonderful creations.  I would not be able to do what I hope to do without his hard work and the work of his hand picked volunteers (the inner circle).  I do appreciate their efforts - really I do.  This stuff is FANTASTIC.  This stuff is so great that I want to help.

I think my response to this thread is build up of frustration over a challenging Aether build (not helped by a lack of written instructions and some "interesting" design decisions) and a number of posts that all seem to get "blown off" without due consideration. I should not have responded with sarcasm and insults but I was a bit "put off" by a lack of consideration to the efforts I was putting into the suggestions. 

In this case, RJ himself calls out the program display in the LE build video when the unit is powered up and has to explain why it says PA6 for program.  That got me thinking, and from experience I knew there was a different way to represent letters in a more "standard" way to attempt to avoid confusion. I figured I could put the time into it instead of busy RJ so I researched it, took the time to document it carefully and instead of "That is an interesting idea, I might consider it for a future firmware rev" (which would be ok and showed it was considered- I was NOT expecting it to change immediately), I got the "it is fine the way it is" answer.

Here is another example: on the Aether, I made a mistake from RJ's design and accidentally put the fuse holders on TOP of the board.  Realizing I made a mistake and not wanting to destroy the board trying to remove them, I looked at the situation and tried to make the best I could out of the situation. I figured out a way to make the board SAFER and more convienient rather than hiding the fuse behind the board.  The way I worked out eliminates contact points at the back of the fuse to high voltage and adds a block to getting to the bolys used to connect the line voltage.  I posted to ASK if there was a specific reason the fuse was on the back that I did not understand (temp issues, fuse blocks light, ??) but instead of considering  the question and understanding the change, I was told it was dangerous and "rash" where as if understood, one would see it it the opposite.  Ah well.


Sorry I questioned you RJ- please keep up the good work.  I hope you will allow me to continue to use your stuff.

Kirk
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: knguyen916 on January 27, 2011,
Don't worry about. Sometimes thing can escalate and be taken out of proportion (I believe the sarcasm did that). Anyhow, don't be hesitant to bring up suggestions or comments in regards to things you have questions on or don't understand. I believe it is one of the priorities of this site to help everyone learn and understand.

Once again have a wonderful day.
 ;)

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rogerwh,

Good advice.   I agree- this stuff and site is RJ's ONLY.  RJ is good, really good and generous.  Unbelievably so to share these wonderful creations.  I would not be able to do what I hope to do without his hard work and the work of his hand picked volunteers (the inner circle).  I do appreciate their efforts - really I do.  This stuff is FANTASTIC.  This stuff is so great that I want to help.

I think my response to this thread is build up of frustration over a challenging Aether build (not helped by a lack of written instructions and some "interesting" design decisions) and a number of posts that all seem to get "blown off" without due consideration. I should not have responded with sarcasm and insults but I was a bit "put off" by a lack of consideration to the efforts I was putting into the suggestions. 

In this case, RJ himself calls out the program display in the LE build video when the unit is powered up and has to explain why it says PA6 for program.  That got me thinking, and from experience I knew there was a different way to represent letters in a more "standard" way to attempt to avoid confusion. I figured I could put the time into it instead of busy RJ so I researched it, took the time to document it carefully and instead of "That is an interesting idea, I might consider it for a future firmware rev" (which would be ok and showed it was considered- I was NOT expecting it to change immediately), I got the "it is fine the way it is" answer.

Here is another example: on the Aether, I made a mistake from RJ's design and accidentally put the fuse holders on TOP of the board.  Realizing I made a mistake and not wanting to destroy the board trying to remove them, I looked at the situation and tried to make the best I could out of the situation. I figured out a way to make the board SAFER and more convienient rather than hiding the fuse behind the board.  The way I worked out eliminates contact points at the back of the fuse to high voltage and adds a block to getting to the bolys used to connect the line voltage.  I posted to ASK if there was a specific reason the fuse was on the back that I did not understand (temp issues, fuse blocks light, ??) but instead of considering  the question and understanding the change, I was told it was dangerous and "rash" where as if understood, one would see it it the opposite.  Ah well.


Sorry I questioned you RJ- please keep up the good work.  I hope you will allow me to continue to use your stuff.

Kirk
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: LondoB5 on January 27, 2011,
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Hey Kirk....  For some reason the episode title "I MUDD" comes to mind.  Not the episode just the title.

Sorry, I could not resist.......                           <la..

TREKSTER

"I, Mudd" is a second season episode of Star Trek: The Original Series first broadcast November 3, 1967

Now listen to me closely..."I am lying..."

btw, it's a line from I,Mudd...not insinuating anyone is lying.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: Gary on January 27, 2011,
I personally find the letters kind of weird. I remember when I first plugged in my first assembled Express, I had no idea what the heck the LED display was trying to tell me; it looked like a bunch of hieroglyphics. It look me a few days or weeks to realize it was "Lynx Express 60 Hz". No biggie... as long as it works.

Maybe CaptKirk's suggestion can be integrated into Version 6 of the Express.

 <yk..

I do think that the suggestion makes sense, but I understand that RJ has bigger things to worry about.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: WWNF911 on January 28, 2011,
My take,....

Sometimes posts of a type written nature can be cold. What I mean is, it's human nature when in a conversation with someone and you can't hear their voice inflection or see their expressions, people tend to read the post and think the worst.

Take RJ's response, "Thanks but I think it is fine as it is."

Can be taken one of at least two ways depending on the voice inflection.

Suggestion,...  Visit DLA chat every now and again. Although it may have changed a little as I haven't been on in a while, you can sign in and hear real voices in conversation. Think DLA is GREAT? You'll think so even more after talking with RJ and staff. Once you do, you'll think about your conversations with them and never make the mistake of thinking the worst first again.   ;)

Leon
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: meman on January 28, 2011,
I say keep the great ideas coming since everyone seems welcome to speak freely and opinions are valued. If RJ’s replies seem short and uninviting, its because he has learned that any hint of acknowledgment to change something results in a stream of nag posts and expectations that he may never get to.

I can’t resist the Star Trek nature of this thread …so I’ll attempt to interject some humor with a lighthearted story.

A ship can only have one captain and this isn’t the Enterprise.  RJ constructed this vessel from scratch and stocked the replicator with items created through trial and error over the course of many voyages…things that he thought might help the inhabitants of his home planet to further their own goals. He and some of the appointed officers graciously allow us to roam the halls of the ship and write our opinions on its walls. A few times a year, they let us go to the replicator and clone some really cool toys that we take back to make blinky on planet Earth.

The replicator has been well stocked over the years, but the captain is a true explorer and once a voyage is completed he is not likely to make a return trip unless something extremely significant can be obtained to enhance the items currently in the replicator.

The good ship DLA is not for hire, she is a ship of leisure (that requires constant maintenance). The captain is hardworking and fair, but usually keeps the charted course a secret until he is ready to surprise his followers by adding a new item to the replicator. This brings him great pleasure. But alas, as word spreads throughout the galaxy and more people visit the ship, the captain is oft challenged. He knows the ship well and is aware of most every new comment on its walls….good ideas go into his private ships log to be reviewed another day. Folks who have not explored the older parts of the ship may not understand its history, or the captain, and often get upset when he does not change course immediately based on their comments….however great they may be. But the captain must stay his charted course and once acknowledged, visitors who continue to push their agendas and stress the captain with repeated posts on the same topic are looked upon as mutineers.

The End....

Mike E.
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: kpurcell on January 28, 2011,
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Sometimes posts of a type written nature can be cold. What I mean is, it's human nature when in a conversation with someone and you can't hear their voice inflection or see their expressions, people tend to read the post and think the worst.

Very true, I remember many flame wars were started at my company because some people "read too much" or "read too little" into someones message.

Remember the other point of view when writing a reply. I consider myself a guest here and appreciate the great community and all the contributors to this forum.

I believe CaptKirks intentions were good but it may have read a little differently to some. I'm glad to know that the program message can appear as PA6. PrG does seem to be an improvement when there is time and a new firmware update.

Ken
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: magic8192 on January 28, 2011,
CaptKirk,

I like your idea, but your negotiating skills need some work.   ;D
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: CaptKirk on February 01, 2011,
Yes they do for this forum.  Where I work, you have to fight to make a difference but that is not appreciated here.  We have something called "See the problem - own the problem" where we try and fix a issue (even a perceived one). Because that is the culture, it is understood if someone perceives a "problem" with something you worked on (even if you do not believe it is a problem), then it *is* a problem that either needs to be fixed, OR that you need to change the others perception.  No one gets bent out of shape, no one threatens any one about the process, it is just how we do things.  Yes there are some lively debates about the merits of the perception sometimes, but it usually all works out with no one getting fired.  I definitely need to stop doing that here in order to keep the peace and order and I do appologize to anyone that was offended by my attempts to correct perceived issues.

Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: kfxi on February 01, 2011,
THAT A BOY RJ TELL IT LIKE IT IS ! ! ! !

KEN
Title: Re: LE program display
Post by: rrowan on February 01, 2011,
Hi Ken

No reason for your post. There is already enough people upset and a post in all caps is not helping.

Rick R.