DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: jnealand on October 02, 2011,
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I ordered and received 4 50 node strings and 4 128 node strings. All 128s consisted of a 100 and 28 string connected together.
All testing is being done on SSCs with a 150 ohm resistor change and flashed with test hex. I am using the 3 pin quick connects. I bought extra and put alligator clips on the ends of one which is how I did my initial testing one string at a time. As I found a good string I put a quick connect permanently on it. In order to test multiple strings at the same time I used some terminal strips to connect strings to a quick connect. Did not want to start soldering the strings back together again before I knew they should be good. I do not have a tester from Ray. Initial testing all done with the lights bundled as they were shipped to me.
All the 50s are working great. One 128 worked great. So 5 out 8 were perfect.
For the remaining 3 128s I had a multitude of issues from lockups to rainbow strings. I split them into two strings - a 100 and a 28. they were all made of a 100 and a 29 soldered together. I just removed the heat shrink and unsoldered them.
The 3 28s seem to be fine on their own although one of them had what appeared two be two bad nodes which I marked with tape. I've been testing with the strings all bunched into a bundle as they were shipped. This afternoon I laid the 28s out on the floor to check them again and the two bad nodes don't seem to be failing anymore. I'm wondering if the nodes are sensitive to heat because in a bundle they get very warm. When laid out in a string they are much cooler. Ray sent me 10 spare nodes and they all test good so I'm not concerned about being able to replace a node or be short. In fact I think my 128s are going to be a foot or two to long once I put them on the roof ridge and my gutters.
Two of the 100s appear to be working fine.
The 3rd 100 has a big chunk (at the end) working in rainbow fashion. I've marked the first node that seems corrupt but have not started to cut the string apart yet. Iv'e had a couple of lockups in white on this string also, but not since I stretched the string out.
Questions:
1. Why would a 128 string not work, but the individual strings of 100 and 28 work fine when separated? Is this common?
2. Are the nodes heat sensitive? Should I be doing all my testing with the strings laid out on the floor and not bundled up?
3. Based on prior posts, on the rainbow string I will start cutting at the node before the first rainbow bulb. Is this correct?
Other things I noted.
1. All the 128 strings came with 18 - 24 inch of lead wire on one or both ends of the string. One them had it only on the output end and I blindly hooked that up for testing and got nothing. Finally figured out that was the wrong end to connect up.
2. The output ends typically have a the wires stripped and tinned. I put a piece of blue painters tape flat and separated the wires before wrapping the tape back over the top to seal the ends in and keep them from shorting out. Blew one fuse on the hub before I figured that out. Another lesson learned.
Any insights or tips are appreciated. I wonder what would happen if I used an air duster to cool off the node before my rainbow starts. btw, the rainbow is all kinds of colors not normally showing up in test mode.
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Jim,
I'm seeing the same issues with the 9 128 pixel strings I received a few weeks ago. I get the rainbow (i.e. random) colors near the ends of the strings when running the SSC test firmware. If the problem started at the same pixel all the time I'd know where to look, but even the location is somewhat random. The starting point of the problem can jump back and forth 10 to 20 pixels, which makes it very difficult to guess where the bad pixel(s) might be. Running out of ideas on how to handle this or if I should just ship the stuff back to Ray. I do have the tester from Ray, and the strings behave fine with his tester which makes this even more perplexing.
-Mike
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I hate to just start cutting bulbs out randomly. Seems like there should be a better way to diagnose the issue. Since you have the tester, how about measuring the voltage at the end of the string when using both the tester and when using the SSC. I'm wondering if the tester is putting out a higher voltage.
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I can tell you that you shouldn't run the flex strips for very long still on the reel. That will get so hot you can't touch it within a few minutes. If you are running them bunched up just make sure they aren't getting too hot and they should be fine, but remember that since these are encapsulated the heat you feel on the outside is not going to be nearly what the internals are seeing so I wouldn't run them that way for long. Especially if you are seeing issues during operation that may be heat related. It's just an easy thing to rule out by spreading them out a pinch.
From my (little) experience with the nodes, if data is being passed intermittently, you can usually diagnose which pixel is having the connection issue by squeezing of the molded part of the node or also slight pressure to the LED. Don't be afraid to force things a pinch, but don't snap it. This will usually be enough to get data or power flowing again, at least enough to see a little flash on the rest of the string or a data update and possible subsequent refreeze of the later nodes. As previously stated, it is usually the last node that is acting correctly, but not always.
I had a large part of a string that wouldn't come on at all and that one ended up being the first node that didn't light. No matter what I did to the prior node, the rest of the string would never do anything at all. As it turns out that node was just completely dead. Once taken out of the strand everything else started to work with no problems.
It is a process of logic and some guessing, but not too bad actually. Just do some squeezing and pull the wires a little bit and if you see anything react then you know you have a pretty good lead.
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Yes they are light rope lights. You never every run them with out unrolling them either or they melt together and start stinking of melted plastic. There is nowhere for the heat to get out when they are rolled so they heat each other till they get really hot.
RJ
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I've just started testing on my order of five 128 node 'new' strings. So far 1 seems to work fine, burned in for 36 hours with no issues. 1 string does not light - guess I need more troubleshooting there. 1 string is intermittently showing the rainbow colors at random patches. It may work for 5 color changes in a row, then start having issues for the next 10 changes, work for a couple then have issues again. It happens at random nodes, but the earliest I've seen is about 25 in from the beginning of the string. This is with a 150 ohm resistor on the controller.
So a couple of questions:
1) Can the resistance feasibly be any lower on the data line resistor? Would a slightly stronger signal help with the random issues?
2) At one point, it seems there was a recommendation to ground the free end of the data line with a resistor? I have not done this. Is it not needed anymore, and/or would grounding it help?
3) How realistic is 'test mode' compared to regular operation? It seems with the test mode the color change data is sent, there is a ~1 second pause, then another set of color change data? With normal operation, seems this color change data would be at 50 millisecond intervals? So where the test mode leaves a portion of the string in the wrong color for quite a while, if this happened in normal use, it might only appear as a momentary 'spark' of the wrong color?
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I've just started testing on my order of five 128 node 'new' strings. So far 1 seems to work fine, burned in for 36 hours with no issues. 1 string does not light - guess I need more troubleshooting there. 1 string is intermittently showing the rainbow colors at random patches. It may work for 5 color changes in a row, then start having issues for the next 10 changes, work for a couple then have issues again. It happens at random nodes, but the earliest I've seen is about 25 in from the beginning of the string. This is with a 150 ohm resistor on the controller.
So a couple of questions:
1) Can the resistance feasibly be any lower on the data line resistor? Would a slightly stronger signal help with the random issues?
While you could possibly lower the resistor to get more output power you would also be putting a significant strain on the output circuit which could significantly shorten its life. Doing this is simply trying to eliminate symptoms rather than solving the problem.
2) At one point, it seems there was a recommendation to ground the free end of the data line with a resistor? I have not done this. Is it not needed anymore, and/or would grounding it help?
I don't see how this would help anything. Each node in the string reads the data, removes the first command that it sees for itself and then regenerates the rest of the command string and sends it to the next node. Putting a resistor on the last node should only put an added load on the last node which should do nothing.
3) How realistic is 'test mode' compared to regular operation? It seems with the test mode the color change data is sent, there is a ~1 second pause, then another set of color change data? With normal operation, seems this color change data would be at 50 millisecond intervals? So where the test mode leaves a portion of the string in the wrong color for quite a while, if this happened in normal use, it might only appear as a momentary 'spark' of the wrong color?
Just because the color only changes every second doesn't mean that the signal is sent only once a second. The colors change around once per second so that you can make sure that all of the colors in each node are working. If your string cannot function properly with this simple color change pattern, do you really think that they will work any better with a complicated color change? The string has one or more bad nodes and needs to be fixed. The first thing that I would do with that string is remove the first node from the string and see what happens with the controller connected to the second node.
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How many first nodes do we remove? I removed the first node since at times it did not even come on in test mode. Connected the remaining nodes up and while it works for a few cycles the whole string ends up in white. So do I just remove the next first node or switch to another method? I have gone down the whole string pulling on the wires and inspecting the nodes, but other than one piece of wire where the color codes are reversed between two nodes (at both nodes so continuity is still ok) I can find nothing suspect. I'm beginning to think that using the binary method of cutting in half may be the better choice.
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This is a for what it is worth post.
I purchased 12 SS controllers during the COOP. They sat in the box until 2 weeks ago. I decided to solder them up and connect them to my RGB led strings. I solder up all of the controllers the same way, the same day and the with the same soldering iron. I did not do anything different from the first to the last, or at least so I thought. I cut all the strings, connected up the controllers, programmed up the hex files, set the individual ID's and the node count.
I decided to play before I tried to do the test hex so I connected up my dongle to LSP and away I went. 4 of the nine strings worked as I expected. The changed colors, turned off when not in use so all was good for those. I began troubleshooting the remaining 5 strings. I erased the hex files, redid ID checked my connections with no success.
I was beginning to think my setup was cursed. Frustration set it so I walked away till the next day.
This morning, I tried all the above with no success. I then removed the chips and decided to redo all the solder connections. I then redid the hex files and the ID's. All works now. All the strings work as they should. What did I do to fix it? From what I can figure, I had a cold solder joint on I of the data pins or something like it.
The issues that you are having are exactly the issues I was having. I would suggest you try to resolder all your stuff and then reload you hex files. That just may say you cutting up all of your strings. While a huge pain in the "***" it surely better than cutting up all the manufactured stuff.
Cant hurt anyway
Just my experience with all of this stuff. This is the first time I have ever had an issue with what I had soldered up in any of my DIY career.
I would try to resolder 1 controller and reprogram before you cut anything up.
David
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David,
Were you seeing the random rainbow colors near the ends of the strings? I know many of mine are doing that. Jim, Corey and others are reporting the same issues. I was pretty sure this was related to the new strings that people are getting and not a controller issue. I have lots of SSC's so I'm going to try some systematic testing with different controllers to see what happens. I've noted in other threads that the strings behave 100% correct with the controller from Ray. That doesn't guarantee that it isn't a string issue as Ray's controller may be sending different voltage and/or current to drive the strings. I'll post what I find, but I'm certainly interested to hear if people discover any other solutions to the rainbow color an/or lock on white issues.
-Mike
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I too had the rainbow issue. I had it in the middle and the ends of different strings. The kicker with me was that i cut a 128 string down to make 2 30's and the balance. The first 30 worked OK then the middle 68 had issues and the end of the count was 30 and that was okay. These RGB pixels were delivered about 2 weeks ago. I ordered about 5 weeks ago but Ray had no stock and I had to wait for him to make more.
The strings all seemed to work on the 4 controllers that had no initial issues. It ended up being a shot in the dark repair to try to resolder all the "faulty" controllers. As I said in my first post, there was no rhyme or reason as to why it worked for me but it did.
Red would show up as blue, blue as green, yellow as white and so on. When in a LSP sequence to see what they could do they would pixelate different colors, random colors and not shut off when there was no input to them.
It was weird but as I said a resolder fixed all my issues. So far I have 1 bad node of 5 strings of 128.
Ill update if there are any other issues.
David
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Thanks David,
My strings sound like there were from the same lot (I heard the same story from Ray about being out of parts). I'll definitely take a second look at some of my SSC's.
-Mike
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In my one string that had rainbow colors I finally removed the first node. That seemed to help but the string would still lock on white occasionally. I then removed the new first node and now the string is mostly working correctly. I have no more rainbow colors at the end but I do get an occasional color change about 2/3 down the string when red does not switch to green correctly, but on the next cycle thru it will be fine. It does seem to consistently start at one particular node. I'm trying to decide whether to cut that one out or the one before it. I have to cut this string at some point in order to fit to my display so I have put it aside for now.
All my controllers have the 3 pin connector on them so I can and have switched controllers, but the problem always follows this one string.
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Post removed to keep the techincal stuff off the forum. Pm sent to poster to explian.
RJ
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RJ-
I had a chance to quickly read through the previous post before it was deleted and while it was technical and I understand your reason for deleting it can you or someone else on staff verify the poster's findings? Also, if valid, post a diy solution for his conclusion? (I'm not including any of his specifics so this isn't deleted as well)
It seems many people are still having issues with color changes even while using the first resistor mod suggested to fix it - this might be another workaround to use.
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He is see exactly what the rest of us see. When a node draws too much current form the data line it loads it to the point the current through the resistor is not enough to get high enough voltage. This then adds ringing into the line due to me lowering the resistor value to get more drive current.
When he tried to add less of a resistor he found out why I told everone not to do this. It simple raise the bottom to above 0v since the pic can npot sink that much current so it does not help and over loads the pic pin.
I believe, and may be wrong the nodes are not being cleaned of flux well and so this leads to too issues.
One is a seconadary current path drain on the data line. And two, getting any mosture into the node shorts them out.
The load from one chip on the data line should not be 20ma-30ma and sometimes more!
The chinese tester has a drive circuit that can handle a large current so some times the string will work with them and not with SSC.
Sometimes it can not drive them when they are like this.
RJ
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If the problem is with flux inside the pixels, there doesn't seem to be a fix.
Are there any suggestions what to do next?
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I have discovered more information on my major bad string of 128 nodes. If I apply power to the output end of the string I never get any rainbows. As soon as I remove power at the output end I get the rainbows. BUT!!!!
I have a second hub with an identical power supply. If I just move the input cat5 to the second hub with the no power applied to the output end of the string I also get no rainbows. Makes me wonder what could be different between the two hubs other than the soldering. Any thoughts on this?
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I have discovered more information on my major bad string of 128 nodes. If I apply power to the output end of the string I never get any rainbows. As soon as I remove power at the output end I get the rainbows. BUT!!!!
I have a second hub with an identical power supply. If I just move the input cat5 to the second hub with the no power applied to the output end of the string I also get no rainbows. Makes me wonder what could be different between the two hubs other than the soldering. Any thoughts on this?
So if I understand you correctly, all you are doing is using a different hub and power supply with the same string and controller? What happens if you just swap power supplies using the same hub (the one that you get rainbows on)?
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Possibly the voltage level and/or ground line resistance? I've noted several of my strings will always make the white color change, but miss some of the actual 'colors'. This is explained as the white draws more power which causes a slight drop in the input voltage and slightly changes the voltage on the data line.
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Well that did not turn out to be the issue either. I left the string running all afternoon while I was out hanging lights and when I came back in I had my usual rainbows back. This is very baffling. I have nothing left to do but start cutting to see if I can find a bad bulb.
If anyone does not know what we are talking about with rainbow results I have uploaded a short video of the rainbow in action. This is a 128 node string. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0fvKuCCxxA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0fvKuCCxxA)
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Jim,
Follow the string till you get to the last know working bulb and lightly twist it to see if the rest of the string starts working.
If you can cause that pixel to cause the string to work/not work than that is probably your culprit.
I have found a few bad bulbs that were causing a similar issue to what you have, after I cut them out string was good.
Brian
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Jim, Follow the string till you get to the last know working bulb and lightly twist it to see if the rest of the string starts working.
If you can cause that pixel to cause the string to work/not work than that is probably your culprit.
I have found a few bad bulbs that were causing a similar issue to what you have, after I cut them out string was good.
Brian
I wish it was that easy. I have gone thru every bulb and pulled on the wires and untwisted the wires so that they will lay flat or hang flat when I put them up. Several folks have sat and watched the string and grab the last good bulb only to have a different bulb be the last good one on the next cycle. There just is no consistency to this other than it is always in the last half (third) of the string. I have no confidence that if I start cutting the problem will be solved. This is a string that was supposed to go up on my roof ridge. I think I may just put up last years LED strings or not put any roof ridge lights up this year. I will still have my gutters and rood snowflakes up there. RJ is looking to test a possible mod to see if that helps, so we will wait to see what happens.
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I just went through 42 strings yesterday and cleaned them up. Whenever I saw a problem, I found the very first issue in the string where a bulb was a different color from what was expected, I cut it out and the bulb immediately before it. After joining up the pieces before and after the cutouts, I checked the resulting string out, if good -- I then added the two replacement bulbs at the end of the string, and checked one final time. I found maybe 15 strings with problems out of 42, but when I took out 2 at a time I only once had to repeat for a second problem bulb (pair).
part of my check-out procedure was to swing the string around a bit, and move it a bit to see if there was anything loose that might cause a bulb to act flakey.
i only think one bulb was bad when I removed 2, but it is hard to know if the first is leaving garbage for the second to pick up, or the second is creating its own garbage.
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Well after a rough night last night. All I needed was 4 more strings of 60 nodes to finish my 32 needed for my mega tree. The very first string that I plugged in did not even light. So duh, I plug it into another spot on the hub and still nothing. I am really glad that I stopped there, because it blew the fuses in my hub. I have looked at all of the nodes in that string through a magnifying glass and do not see anything out of the ordinary. I'm not sure how I am going to diagnose that string. After everything is said and done it took me 5 hours just to get 4 strings together and working. I hope that everything will still function once on the tree, but for now I am hopeful that I am done for this year anyway. Oh I forgot I still have to replace 2 fuses on my hub and build more dongles since it does not look like the either dongle will be ready for the start of this year's show.
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...I am really glad that I stopped there, because it blew the fuses in my hub.
Been there, done that - though my fuse blows have always been due to accidentally touching a few wires during testing, or the tip of my DMM/Scope probe slipping between two wires. Don't know that I have seen a string blow fuses due to internal issues.
I guess if that is the case, cutting it in half and measuring the resistance between the +/- leads should identify where the bad node is. Cut in half again and you'll know which 1/4 of the string it's in, etc. At the 1/4 or 1/8th level it might pay to have a good look at all the nodes - you might see something visual inside...it would almost have to be a bridged solder joint or something.
I should have enough ports still operating for this year, but when I order some more fuses, I think I'll order some 12V LEDs too. Solder those across the fuse and it should be a visual indicator when the fuse blows. I'd at least like to do this with a few ports for 'testing'... that way I can easily confirm the health of the fuse. Come to think of it, I might order a few more to solder around various locations of my test SSC - then I can visually confirm power to the SSC, power out to the string, etc.
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I've made 2 testers for my fuses - one is an LED from a string of Christmas lights with a 1K resistor (It was an extra laying on my bench) and one of the RJ45 ends that I had cut off of the little ethernet extensions that you get from RJ for the SSCs. I cut the locking tab off of the RJ45 connector so it would not lock in place. With the LED you have to get the polarity right...
The second one uses a 12v "grain of wheat" type light bulb crimped into an RJ45 - again with the locking tab cut off. This one gets a little warm, so I don't leave it plugged in. I also used some pieces of insulation stripped off of the ethernet wires to keep the leads on the bulb from shorting out and to give something for the cable clamp to bite into.
For both I looked at the back of the hub board to figure out which pins to use - 3-5 are +12 and 6-8 are gnd. It doesn't matter which pins you use as long as you have one from each set...
With both of these I can very quickly check any port in question.
RM
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Brilliant RM, I love it.
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Kind of interested in solutions for this as well. I'm having some of the same issues but I tend to notice a pattern so I'm indecisive on where to cut.
Watching the test pattern I'll have say node 101 incorrect for one green every approximatly 20 color changes (that's about 5 full cycles I believe). Then about 10 color changes in between it's actually further towards the source on the string, once again about 20 changes between it being incorrect once and correct the rest of the time. So they are right most of the time.
This same string does have a section towards the end that's incorrect on almost every color except white. Or at least steady incorrect at evey color change.
Leaves me a bit torn on do I try to fix the single ones up towards the top of the line, or take a stab at the big section first towards the end. Or a better way to ask what I'm wondering is could a bad node 128 cause issues for node 1, or will the problem always start towards the front of the string and work its way to the end.
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Problems at the end of the line will have no impact on nodes that come before.
Nodes earlier in the line "could" have an impact anywhere after. So I have been successfully been doing the earliest nodes first -- I do the one BEFORE the first observable node and the node with the observable problem -- at the same time.
I am likely removing 1 good node each time, but I plan to spend january in sorting out the nodes -- if the effort is justified.
I've found after 16 bad strings, that only one new solder connection is needed mid-string.