SS troubleshooting

[jnealand]

I ordered and received 4 50 node strings and 4 128 node strings.  All 128s consisted of a 100 and 28 string connected together.
All testing is being done on SSCs with a 150 ohm resistor change and flashed with test hex.  I am using the 3 pin quick connects.  I bought extra and put alligator clips on the ends of one which is how I did my initial testing one string at a time.  As I found a good string I put a quick connect permanently on it.  In order to test multiple strings at the same time I used some terminal strips to connect strings to a quick connect.  Did not want to start soldering the strings back together again before I knew they should be good.  I do not have a tester from Ray.  Initial testing all done with the lights bundled as they were shipped to me.

All the 50s are working great.   One 128 worked great.  So 5 out 8 were perfect.
 
For the remaining 3 128s I had a multitude of issues from lockups to rainbow strings. I split them into two strings - a 100 and a 28.  they were all made of a 100 and a 29 soldered together.  I just removed the heat shrink and unsoldered them. 

The 3 28s seem to be fine on their own although one of them had what appeared two be two bad nodes which I marked with tape.  I've been testing with the strings all bunched into a bundle as they were shipped.  This afternoon I laid the 28s out on the floor to check them again and the two bad nodes don't seem to be failing anymore.  I'm wondering if the nodes are sensitive to heat because in a bundle they get very warm.  When laid out in a string they are much cooler.  Ray sent me 10 spare nodes and they all test good so I'm not concerned about being able to replace a node or be short.  In fact I think my 128s are going to be a foot or two to long once I put them on the roof ridge and my gutters. 

Two of the 100s appear to be working fine. 

The 3rd 100 has a big chunk (at the end) working in rainbow fashion.  I've marked the first node that seems corrupt but have not started to cut the string apart yet.  Iv'e had a couple of lockups in white on this string also, but not since I stretched the string out.

Questions:
1.  Why would a 128 string not work, but the individual strings of 100 and 28 work fine when separated?  Is this common?

2.  Are the nodes heat sensitive?  Should I be doing all my testing with the strings laid out on the floor and not bundled up?

3.  Based on prior posts, on the rainbow string I will start cutting at the node before the first rainbow bulb.  Is this correct?

Other things I noted. 
1.  All the 128 strings came with 18 - 24 inch of lead wire on one or both ends of the string.  One them had it only on the output end and I blindly hooked that up for testing and got nothing.  Finally figured out that was the wrong end to connect up.

2.  The output ends typically have a the wires stripped and tinned.  I put a piece of blue painters tape flat and separated the wires before wrapping the tape back over the top to seal the ends in and keep them from shorting out.  Blew one fuse on the hub before I figured that out.  Another lesson learned.

Any insights or tips are appreciated.  I wonder what would happen if I used an air duster to cool off the node before my rainbow starts.  btw, the rainbow is all kinds of colors not normally showing up in test mode.

[mokeefe]

Jim,

I'm seeing the same issues with the 9 128 pixel strings I received a few weeks ago.  I get the rainbow (i.e. random) colors near the ends of the strings when running the SSC test firmware.  If the problem started at the same pixel all the time I'd know where to look, but even the location is somewhat random. The starting point of the problem can jump back and forth 10 to 20 pixels, which makes it very difficult to guess where the bad pixel(s) might be. Running out of ideas on how to handle this or if I should just ship the stuff back to Ray.  I do have the tester from Ray, and the strings behave fine with his tester which makes this even more perplexing.

-Mike

[jnealand]

I hate to just start cutting bulbs out randomly.  Seems like there should be a better way to diagnose the issue.  Since you have the tester, how about measuring the voltage at the end of the string when using both the tester and when using the SSC.  I'm wondering if the tester is putting out a higher voltage.

[TAdamsOK]

I can tell you that you shouldn't run the flex strips for very long still on the reel.  That will get so hot you can't touch it within a few minutes.  If you are running them bunched up just make sure they aren't getting too hot and they should be fine, but remember that since these are encapsulated the heat you feel on the outside is not going to be nearly what the internals are seeing so I wouldn't run them that way for long.  Especially if you are seeing issues during operation that may be heat related.  It's just an easy thing to rule out by spreading them out a pinch.

From my (little) experience with the nodes, if data is being passed intermittently, you can usually diagnose which pixel is having the connection issue by squeezing of the molded part of the node or also slight pressure to the LED.  Don't be afraid to force things a pinch, but don't snap it.  This will usually be enough to get data or power flowing again, at least enough to see a little flash on the rest of the string or a data update and possible subsequent refreeze of the later nodes.  As previously stated, it is usually the last node that is acting correctly, but not always.

I had a large part of a string that wouldn't come on at all and that one ended up being the first node that didn't light.  No matter what I did to the prior node, the rest of the string would never do anything at all.  As it turns out that node was just completely dead.  Once taken out of the strand everything else started to work with no problems.

It is a process of logic and some guessing, but not too bad actually.  Just do some squeezing and pull the wires a little bit and if you see anything react then you know you have a pretty good lead. 

[RJ]

Yes they are light rope lights. You never every run them with out unrolling them either or they melt together and start stinking of melted plastic. There is nowhere for the heat to get out when they are rolled so they heat each other till they get really hot.

RJ

[Corey872]

I've just started testing on my order of five 128 node 'new' strings.  So far 1 seems to work fine, burned in for 36 hours with no issues.  1 string does not light - guess I need more troubleshooting there.  1 string is intermittently showing the rainbow colors at random patches.  It may work for 5 color changes in a row, then start having issues for the next 10 changes, work for a couple then have issues again.  It happens at random nodes, but the earliest I've seen is about 25 in from the beginning of the string.  This is with a 150 ohm resistor on the controller.

So a couple of questions:

1) Can the resistance feasibly be any lower on the data line resistor?  Would a slightly stronger signal help with the random issues?

2) At one point, it seems there was a recommendation to ground the free end of the data line with a resistor?  I have not done this.  Is it not needed anymore, and/or would grounding it help?

3) How realistic is 'test mode' compared to regular operation?  It seems with the test mode the color change data is sent, there is a ~1 second pause, then another set of color change data?  With normal operation, seems this color change data would be at 50 millisecond intervals?  So where the test mode leaves a portion of the string in the wrong color for quite a while, if this happened in normal use, it might only appear as a momentary 'spark' of the wrong color?

[tbone321]

I've just started testing on my order of five 128 node 'new' strings.  So far 1 seems to work fine, burned in for 36 hours with no issues.  1 string does not light - guess I need more troubleshooting there.  1 string is intermittently showing the rainbow colors at random patches.  It may work for 5 color changes in a row, then start having issues for the next 10 changes, work for a couple then have issues again.  It happens at random nodes, but the earliest I've seen is about 25 in from the beginning of the string.  This is with a 150 ohm resistor on the controller.

So a couple of questions:

1) Can the resistance feasibly be any lower on the data line resistor?  Would a slightly stronger signal help with the random issues?

While you could possibly lower the resistor to get more output power you would also be putting a significant strain on the output circuit which could significantly shorten its life.  Doing this is simply trying to eliminate symptoms rather than solving the problem.

2) At one point, it seems there was a recommendation to ground the free end of the data line with a resistor?  I have not done this.  Is it not needed anymore, and/or would grounding it help?

I don't see how this would help anything.  Each node in the string reads the data, removes the first command that it sees for itself and then regenerates the rest of the command string and sends it to the next node.  Putting a resistor on the last node should only put an added load on the last node which should do nothing.

3) How realistic is 'test mode' compared to regular operation?  It seems with the test mode the color change data is sent, there is a ~1 second pause, then another set of color change data?  With normal operation, seems this color change data would be at 50 millisecond intervals?  So where the test mode leaves a portion of the string in the wrong color for quite a while, if this happened in normal use, it might only appear as a momentary 'spark' of the wrong color?

Just because the color only changes every second doesn't mean that the signal is sent only once a second.  The colors change around once per second so that you can make sure that all of the colors in each node are working.  If your string cannot function properly with this simple color change pattern, do you really think that they will work any better with a complicated color change?  The string has one or more bad nodes and needs to be fixed.  The first thing that I would do with that string is remove the first node from the string and see what happens with the controller connected to the second node. 

[jnealand]

How many first nodes do we remove?  I removed the first node since at times it did not even come on in test mode.  Connected the remaining nodes up and while it works for a few cycles the whole string ends up in white.  So do I just remove the next first node or switch to another method?  I have gone down the whole string pulling on the wires and inspecting the nodes, but other than one piece of wire where the color codes are reversed between two nodes (at both nodes so continuity is still ok) I can find nothing suspect.  I'm beginning to think that using the binary method of cutting in half may be the better choice.

[Unibits]

This is a for what it is worth post.

I purchased 12 SS controllers during the COOP.  They sat in the box until 2 weeks ago.  I decided to solder them up and connect them to my RGB led strings.   I solder up all of the controllers the same way, the same day and the with the same soldering iron.  I did not do anything different from the first to the last, or at least so I thought.  I cut all the strings, connected up the controllers, programmed up the hex files, set the individual ID's and the node count.

I decided to play before I tried to do the test hex so I connected up my dongle to LSP and away I went.  4 of the nine strings worked as I expected.  The changed colors, turned off when not in use so all was good for those.  I began troubleshooting the remaining 5 strings.  I erased the hex files, redid ID checked my connections with no success. 

I was beginning to think my setup was cursed.  Frustration set it so I walked away till the next day. 

This morning, I tried all the above with no success.  I then removed the chips and decided to redo all the solder connections.  I then redid the hex files and the ID's.  All works now.  All the strings work as they should.  What did I do to fix it?   From what I can figure, I had a cold solder joint on I of the data pins or something like it. 

The issues that you are having are exactly the issues I was having.  I would suggest you try to resolder all your stuff and then reload you hex files.  That just may say you cutting up all of your strings.    While a huge pain in the "***" it surely better than cutting up all the manufactured stuff.

Cant hurt anyway

Just my experience with all of this stuff.  This is the first time I have ever had an issue with what I had soldered up in any of my DIY career. 

I would try to resolder 1 controller and reprogram before you cut anything up.

David

[mokeefe]

David,

Were you seeing the random rainbow colors near the ends of the strings?  I know many of mine are doing that. Jim, Corey and others are reporting the same issues.  I was pretty sure this was related to the new strings that people are getting and not a controller issue.  I have lots of SSC's so I'm going to try some systematic testing with different controllers to see what happens.  I've noted in other threads that the strings behave 100% correct with the controller from Ray. That doesn't guarantee that it isn't a string issue as Ray's controller may be sending different voltage and/or current to drive the strings.  I'll post what I find, but I'm certainly interested to hear if people discover any other solutions to the rainbow color an/or lock on white issues.

-Mike

[Unibits]

I too had the rainbow issue.  I had it in the middle and the ends of different strings.  The kicker with me was that i cut a 128 string down to make 2 30's and the balance.  The first 30 worked OK then the middle 68 had issues and the end of the count was 30 and that was okay.  These RGB pixels were delivered about 2 weeks ago.  I ordered about 5 weeks ago but Ray had no stock and I had to wait for him to make more.

The strings all seemed to work on the 4 controllers that had no initial issues.  It ended up being a shot in the dark repair to try to resolder all the "faulty" controllers.  As I said in my first post, there was no rhyme or reason as to why it worked for me but it did.

Red would show up as blue, blue as green, yellow as white and so on.  When in a LSP sequence to see what they could do they would pixelate different colors, random colors and not shut off when there was no input to them.

It was weird but as I said a resolder fixed all my issues.  So far I have 1 bad node of 5 strings of 128.

Ill update if there are any other issues.

David

[mokeefe]

Thanks David,

My strings sound like there were from the same lot (I heard the same story from Ray about being out of parts).  I'll definitely take a second look at some of my SSC's.

-Mike

[jnealand]

In my one string that had rainbow colors I finally removed the first node.  That seemed to help but the string would still lock on white occasionally.  I then removed the new first node and now the string is mostly working correctly.  I have no more rainbow colors at the end but I do get an occasional color change about 2/3 down the string when red does not switch to green correctly, but on the next cycle thru it will be fine.  It does seem to consistently start at one particular node.  I'm trying to  decide whether to cut that one out or the one before it.  I have to cut this string at some point in order to fit to my display so I have put it aside for now.

All my controllers have the 3 pin connector on them so I can and have switched controllers, but the problem always follows this one string.

[RJ]

Post removed to keep the techincal stuff off the forum. Pm sent to poster to explian.

RJ

[gophergrove]

RJ-

I had a chance to quickly read through the previous post before it was deleted and while it was technical and I understand your reason for deleting it can you or someone else on staff verify the poster's findings?  Also, if valid, post a diy solution for his conclusion?  (I'm not including any of his specifics so this isn't deleted as well)
It seems many people are still having issues with color changes even while using the first resistor mod suggested to fix it - this might be another workaround to use.