Author Topic: No more rainbows  (Read 3144 times)

Offline jnealand

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No more rainbows
« on: November 29, 2011, »
After much struggling with my rainbow problem here is what I have found.

I initially had rainbows on a couple of 128 node strings.  Two of them I cut into a 100 and a 28 node string and both pieces worked fine separately.  Since I only have two locations that need more than 100 nodes that was ok.  One string continued to give me problems I can consistently get rainbows near the end of the string within 5 to 10 minutes of starting a test cycle.  I have been using only the standalone test firmware to do my burn in as I was struggling trying to learn LSP and did not have any sequences to work with.  With some counseling and assistance from RJ I tried a small hardware mod and a different firmware.  That firmware change was only to support the mod and only came as a running production version not a standalone test version.  I used the xlights tester to cycle colors, but it only does RGB and not WRGB, so not the same as the test firmware.  I created a one minute Vixen sequence that cycles thru WRGB just like the test firmware.  I got no rainbows after running for several hours.  Then I put a non-modified SSC on the string (all my strings have the 3 pin connector and I can swap them in seconds) and ran a couple of hours using the vixen test sequence.  Still no rainbows.  I swapped in an SSC with test firmware and almost immediately got rainbows again.  Not sure why this is happening, but if you have any rainbow issues please report how you are testing and discovering the rainbows.  I can only get them using the standalone test firmware that I was using to do my burn in with.  I have been unable to reproduce the problem using vixen and a standard SSC.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, by jnealand »
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA

Offline injury

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2011, »
Interesting so maybe not worth cutting and resoldering to get things looking correct with the test firmware?

Offline Corey872

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2011, »
For the record - all the rainbows I have seen come from the SSC and firmware test sequence, as I suspect most others have as well.

When you say you swapped back to the SSC and immediately got rainbows - was this with the hardware mod or without?

One possibility I see - and I've mentioned this before (but please correct me if I'm wrong) - The SSC / firmware test is a very 'severe' test.  It sends one single set of color change commands, waits one full second, then sends another single set of color change commands.  So if any one node misses one single bit of the command...boom...all the nodes after it are off color for a full second.  This is a very severe test (not that it's a bad thing)

When running a show or other sequence, (and I suspect your vixen/xlights is doing the same) you're sending color commands ever 50(?) milliseconds.  If a node misses a color command, you may see a momentary 'spark' of wrong color, but 1/20th of a second later, another color command comes down the pipe and the node has a chance to get it right this time.

Corey

PS - care to share any details on this hardware mod?  Feel free to PM if it's too technical to discuss in forum.

Offline mokeefe

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2011, »
Yes, I'm very interested in this as well.  I have many "rainbow" strings.  As has been pointed out, I have only tested my string with the "test" SSC firmware.   Didn't bother to go further since I assumed the strings were bad.

I'm not a Vixen user, but can the update frequency in Vixen be adjusted to 1 sec. to more closely match the test firmware?

-Mike

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, »
I think there are quality problems are with the strings... even the newest sets that came plastidip'd.  Many strings might be borderline working, and if the string runs for a while it might even appear good when it has problems.  Maybe its heat-related, maybe rosin residue, ...I'm just seeing high failure rates at a string level, and I'm seeing strings pass testing only to go bad later.

I use 3-core connectors to allow separation between each string and SSC, and in my preparation I go through each string with the same SSC using test firmware. 

When I started off with 128-pixel strings, and then weeded out 20% of those strings with immediate problems -- rainbows or a rogue pixel.  Then I had 12 128-pixel strings running test mode firmware for 6 hours.  10 of those 12 strings turned into rainbows or showed up with rogue pixels.  The rogues usually have one color that won't work -- usually red.  Sometimes rogues cause themselves problems, but often a rogue will cause all pixels that come after to have their colors shifted as if they are one color behind in the sequence.

I then started trimming the strings to 85 pixels, and I had great success overnight.  No problems.

Later, I had 40 tested strings that became tangled and my helper tried to separate them... I guess more roughly than they should have been handled.  I had 9 out of my 40  85-pixel strings no longer working.  I found that 2 of the 9 became rainbows, and the other 7 of the 9 had one or more rogues.

In hindsight, I think my initial testing thatpassed too many strings that turned out to have rogues.  I found that I had several strings show a rogue with a missing color, that might affect pixels later in the string.  As the string ran the test mode for several minutes the rogue would clear up and the string would look good.  But as I started connecting and disconnecting the string I could get that pixel to go rogue again and again.  (Obviously this is not good... when I sequence RGBs I don't want to warm up each pixel so that it come on when I want in the color that I want.)

I don't think it is the SSC, I used the same SSC and had 50-70% of the strings without a problem.  I've used different SSCs and seen similar behavior.

I suspect that we'll come to the conclusion that the pixels are very fragile and even when you have a good string it is easy for the string to become broken.  As the strings warm up I see them working a little better -- but let them run for a long time and you'll start seeing rainbows.
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Offline injury

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, »
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I don't think it is the SSC, I used the same SSC and had 50-70% of the strings without a problem.  I've used different SSCs and seen similar behavior.

I think what's being theorizied is it's not the SSC itself but the test firmware that are showing the lights out of tolerance when in shows doing the same effects they actually work fine. Or another way the SSC test firmware might be pushing the lights to a tolerance beyond what would be happening in a real world use.

As I wait on my dongle it's a very interesting theory if it stops me from having to cut apart strings and resolder them. I've already had one bad node jump ahead on a string on me after watching the lights for a good 20 changes. Like you mentioned, with the test firmware you get it working, then it doesn't, you shorten it, you get it working again, then go away to come back and see more issues.

Offline jnealand

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, »
The hardware mod is a simple thing and the firmware to support it only was for the running mode of the SSC not the test firmware.  Any details of this are not mine to understand or discuss.  I think it is the test firmware and Corey may be right that it is/was designed to be a severe test to shake out issues.  That being said it may truly be pointing out quality issues with the strings that don't surface right away.  One of the purpose of posting here was to see if anyone was seeing rainbows using standard sequencing software?
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA

Offline rimist

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, »
I don't have my hardware built yet for ss it I'd attempt this test: create a sequence using n ms in vixen that matches what the test firmware does. run that sequence using regular firmware. do you see the same problems?
Let n start at 50 and go to 1000, the step size is up to you

- Rimist

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Offline rdebolt

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, »
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wOne of the purpose of posting here was to see if anyone was seeing rainbows using standard sequencing software?

I just got my tree running last night, but I do have several nodes that are off color; however all strings passed the ssc test before going on tree. I was so happy just to get it going that I figured I would work on the issues later.

Offline bwhite505

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, »
I have had a few strings that test fine on the firmware only to go crazy in a test sequence or vice/versa.  I tried several things but in the end changing the cat5 cables cleared up my issue. Both cables tested good I guess it may have been low quality or had a gremlin living inside.

Brian

Offline rdebolt

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, »
Here is a short video of my tree. This is taken with a phone so detail is hard to see, but look at the top of the tree and you will see a rogue string of lights and during the burning part (not sure if you can see in video) in the middle and bottom several nodes are off color. They look white to me, but what do I know.

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Offline mokeefe

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2011, »
Based on Jim's findings and some of the theories discussed in this thread, I went ahead and did a fairly controlled test last night.  I used two 128 strings that had been showing the rainbow issue. I hooked one to an SSC with the "Test" firmware installed and one to an SSC with the "normal" firmware.  I drove the "normal" SSC with a Vixen sequence that had a red, green, blue, white repeating pattern, changing colors once a second (mimicking the "test" firmware pattern).

Running the SSC with "test" firmware gave rainbow patterns towards the end of the string as has been reported by others.
Running the SSC with Vixen sequence showed NO rainbow patterns.
To test the question of update frequency, I ran the Vixen sequence with both 50ms and 1000ms timings.  The string behaved identically in both cases -- no rainbows.
I swapped strings between the controllers and the test results were the same.

So, it seems to me there is clearly some data or electrical difference between the signal being generated by the SSC test firmware and the standard firmware.  At this point, I think RJ may need to chime in as he's the only one who knows the internals of the firmware code.

-Mike

Offline rdebolt

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2011, »
Man I wish I had tried that! It would have saved me a ton of work if to use 128 node strings! Oh well, live and learn.

Offline mokeefe

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2011, »
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Man I wish I had tried that! It would have saved me a ton of work if to use 128 node strings! Oh well, live and learn.

Yeah, I had been doing ALL my testing with the "test" firmware and had abandoned using the strings this season since I couldn't eliminate the rainbows without major cutting and splicing.  Wasn't until Jim posted his findings that I looked into this further. Maybe I still have time to stick a few pixel strings into my show this season.

-Mike

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: No more rainbows
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2011, »
The test firmware explanation is still not matching up to my experience.

I reworked 8 strings and using the test firmware I finally had them working well with no anomalies.  THEN, I changed to standard firmware and started having multiple strings misbehave, one would not light, another had a pixel get stuck on yellow, two had a single pixel showing a dim red -- with nothing else able to light before or after that red pixel.
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