Author Topic: Why is a resistor needed?  (Read 3764 times)

Offline Steve Gase

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Why is a resistor needed?
« on: February 07, 2012, »
I want to test my 12v power coming from my cat5, to do this easily I planned to connect an LED to pins on a rj45 plug.  I've seen numerous examples where a resistor is place inline on the circuit, but I don't understand the purpose.  I can connect my LED to 12v and see it light without problem.

(1) Can someone provide a short explaination on what value the resistor serves?

(2) What is the impact of not placing the resistor in the circuit?

LEDs are diodes and only allow current to pass in one direction. 

(3) If I am testing for swapped wires and occassionnally have + and ground swapped on the LED, will that damage the LED or the power source, or will the LED simply not light?

I've see some videos where LEDs have been forced to explode.  But they did not explain what was done to force this. 

(4) Are exploding LEDs caused by overloading them with too much voltage (well above the rating)?  If not, then what does this?

Thanks!
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Offline dowdybrown

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2012, »
The short answer is that you need a resistor to limit the current flowing through the led. Typical led's are rated for 20 milliamps max. Led's also have a voltage drop across them - typically around 2 volts. So if you are testing a 12 volt power supply, the resistor will have roughly 10 volts across it. A 1k resistor will result in a safe 10 milliamps (10 v / 1000 ohms) through the led.

Matt
(EE by training)
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Offline Slite

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2012, »
I think that running too high a voltage through them will make the lifespan on the LED reduce significantly.
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Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2012, »
the led also isn't constant in what it consumes...  you might use xx mA here and x volts, then if you could check it again in a minute of two, the consumption would be different.    by using a resistor, you're providing constant current to the led. helping it perform to it's specs in which it was designed for.
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Offline EasyGo

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2012, »
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I want to test my 12v power coming from my cat5, to do this easily I planned to connect an LED to pins on a rj45 plug.  I've seen numerous examples where a resistor is place inline on the circuit, but I don't understand the purpose.  I can connect my LED to 12v and see it light without problem.

(1) Can someone provide a short explaination on what value the resistor serves?

(2) What is the impact of not placing the resistor in the circuit?

LEDs are diodes and only allow current to pass in one direction. 

(3) If I am testing for swapped wires and occassionnally have + and ground swapped on the LED, will that damage the LED or the power source, or will the LED simply not light?

I've see some videos where LEDs have been forced to explode.  But they did not explain what was done to force this. 

(4) Are exploding LEDs caused by overloading them with too much voltage (well above the rating)?  If not, then what does this?

Thanks!

1- Already answered, some comments below.
2- The LED will almost certainly be destroyed by too much current (unless some other device limits the current it can draw).
3- It might.  Most LEDs can only stand a few volts the "wrong" way, so the safe thing would be to either put a diode across the LED to block reverse voltage, or else put another LED across it the opposite direction... maybe a different color to indicate polarity.  Be sure to have a series resistor to limit the current for the highest voltage you intend to test.
4- Too much power (heat) caused by too much current.

An incandescent bulb's filament acts like a resistor (in fact, it increases resistance as the filament heats up) and limits the current that will be drawn by the bulb without any need for an extra resistor in most cases.  An LED, on the other hand, is almost a constant voltage device.

If you took a 300-ohm resistor and put it across a 6 volt battery it would draw 20 mA.  If you increased that voltage to 12 volts, it would draw 40 mA.  So far, so good?

If you took a small incandescent bulb that drew 20 mA at 6 volts and hooked it up to 12 volts, it would draw somewhat LESS than 40 mA because of the filament resistance increase as it heated up.

If your green LED had a forward voltage drop of 2.1 volts and drew 20 mA at that voltage, and you decided to hook it to 4.2 volts instead -- it would pull MANY AMPS if your power supply could deliver it, likely exploding the LED or at least frying it (just like the videos).  This is because the LED really doesn't want to allow more than the 2.1 volts across it, and the more current you supply trying to pull it higher, the more current it will draw.  There is actually some small series resistance in the LED but not enough and not predictable enough (not to mention the voltage across it can vary with temperature as Chris said), so the most predictable thing is to assume that the LED will drop its forward voltage (2.1 in this case).  Whatever difference in voltage there is between your supply and the 2.1 volts will have to be dropped across a resistor (see Matt's comment).

Cheers,
Jon
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, by EasyGo »

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2012, »
Thanks for all of the useful information!!    Especially EasyGo!!
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Offline holland lights

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2012, »
Here is a group of led resistor calculators.

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Offline Zeph

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2012, »
Adding a little bit to EasyGo's great explanation...

A simplified model of an LED doesn't conduct at all until it gets to it's Vfwd or forward voltage.  Then it conducts as much current as you provide! (in the simplified model).  In actuallity the curve of voltage and current is not quite that precise, due to the internal resistance EasoGo mentioned and other factors, but still there's a sharp edge in the curve once it begins to conduct - it takes very little extra voltage to conduct more current.  So if 2.1v allows 20ma through, 2.2 volts might allow 200ma (the curve varies).  (As he says, 4.2v would be way out there!).  If that wasn't bad enough the exact shape of the voltage to current curve depends on temperature, so 2.1V at one temperature might conduct like 2.2V at another - ie: problem.  So the LED is pretty unstable once it conducts. 

The resistor on the other hand has simple dynamics which dominate the current determination once the LED conducts.  Suppose you were using a 12.1v supply with the 1000 ohm resistor to give 10ma with a 2.1v LED (see dowdybrown's example; 2.1v dropped by the LED, 10.0 v by the resistor).  If you increase the supply to 12.2v, that will put 10.1 V across the resistor and increase the current by only 1% to 10.1ma.  Or even if you increase it proportionately (versus the 2.1V to 2.2V change in above example) to 12.7v, that only puts 10.6V across the resistor for a 6% increase in current to 10.6ma.  Same deal if the "knee" of the LED's voltage/current curve were to change some due to temperature - it doesn't matter significantly.

At 5V supply with a 3.6V blue or green LED, the margins of stability provided by the resistor are smaller, but still very important.

If your LED works on 12v without an external resistor, than either it has an internal resistor (some do), or it's using the resistance of the wire or the current limits of the power supply (eg: battery resistance or current limiting circuitry).

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2012, »
More good info. 
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If your LED works on 12v without an external resistor, than either it has an internal resistor (some do), or it's using the resistance of the wire or the current limits of the power supply (eg: battery resistance or current limiting circuitry).
After EasyGo's response I looked back at the LEDs that I purchased for my little project.  They were presoldered with 8" wire and had shrink wrap around the connections.  I found after more research that the supplier included a resistor in the finished part.  So, I am good -- and I now know the reason why! :)

thanks, all!
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Offline holland lights

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2012, »
Yea you can purchase different leds already put together. I have purched some from http:\\www.oxnium.com also.

Offline rimist

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2012, »
I understand most of the info here ... maybe not as well as I'd like, however, well enough to wonder: with all these issues changing the voltage supplied to a led, how in the world does dimming them work, and is it safe?

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Offline holland lights

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2012, »
A led can be dimmed by simply lowing the voltage.

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Offline rm357

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Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2012, »
We don't normally use the voltage to dim an LED. We turn it on and off very rapidly using a technique called pulse width modulation. Brighter = more on time, less off time.
Dimmer = more off time, less on time.
Normally the pulse stream will have a fixed frequency well above 80 Hz so that we don't perceive the flicker.
However, move the led around at high speed and you can see the on/off time...

This is often called a constant current driver - when the device is on, the current is always the same...

RM
« Last Edit: February 07, 2012, by rm357 »
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Offline rimist

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2012, »
Does the lynx express use the constant current method for dimming?

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Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Why is a resistor needed?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2012, »
no, the express turns on/off electricity during different times of a ac sine wave.  so when the sine wave is high (or low) then you get more power.  when it's close to 0, you get little power.
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