DiyLightAnimation

Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: scott_aus on July 20, 2013,

Title: Node Types ?
Post by: scott_aus on July 20, 2013,
Hi,

Is it just the nodes linked in the wiki that will work with SSC's or is it any string with 1804 chip?

I wanted to get some nodes like the normal strings but with the square backing on it so they sit flat on whatever surface I am mounting them on.

Thanks, Scott
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: keitha43 on July 20, 2013,
Only the ones in the WIKI are tested and guaranteed to work. The ones in this thread http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=11818.0 are said to be able to be manufactued with 1804 chips upon request to Ray. I am waiting on a sample string with the default chip to test with my modded v3 SSC's to see if they will work with it.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: curtbl on August 04, 2013,
Keith, I was going to ask in the other thread about why everyone is trying to get the WS's to work if Ray will make the same with the 1804's, and found your post....Did you get a version of this with the 1804 chipset?  I really like the form factor and the ability to add the other lens pieces, but concerned that 1804 may not be 1804. Your thoughts?  Seems it would be easier than trying to get the SSC's to work with a non approved chip.
Thanks
Curt
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: keitha43 on August 04, 2013,
No. The test strands he had were only ws2811. Somebody would have to order some tm1804's from Ray to verify compatibility.

Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2.

Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: RJ on August 05, 2013,
The WS2811 is a little cheaper sometimes, and it is useable if setup correctly. It is like the 1804 in that it has different communication speeds and needs to be set to the correct one. I was sent a string from ray a while back of WS2811 and they worked on SSC V4, SSC v3, and Zeus so not sure the ones someone got that did not work on, but I think it was setup to a different com speed is my guess.


RJ
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: Steve Gase on August 05, 2013,
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The WS2811 is a little cheaper sometimes, and it is useable if setup correctly. It is like the 1804 in that it has different communication speeds and needs to be set to the correct one. I was sent a string from ray a while back of WS2811 and they worked on SSC V4, SSC v3, and Zeus so not sure the ones someone got that did not work on, but I think it was setup to a different com speed is my guess.


RJ
Is com speed adjustable on a string?  Wouldn't com speed be defined by the controller? (SSC?)
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: rrowan on August 05, 2013,
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The WS2811 is a little cheaper sometimes, and it is useable if setup correctly. It is like the 1804 in that it has different communication speeds and needs to be set to the correct one. I was sent a string from ray a while back of WS2811 and they worked on SSC V4, SSC v3, and Zeus so not sure the ones someone got that did not work on, but I think it was setup to a different com speed is my guess.


RJ
Is com speed adjustable on a string?  Wouldn't com speed be defined by the controller? (SSC?)

Nope this is the speed of the pic on the pixel and set by the factory during assembly.

Rick R.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: JonB256 on August 05, 2013,
I believe that may be one of the advantages of the 4 wire strings - the clock is separate from the data. Now, having never used a 4-wire pixel, that may only be half correct, but it could allow them more leeway for clock speeds.
Title: Re: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: Steve Gase on August 05, 2013,
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The WS2811 is a little cheaper sometimes, and it is useable if setup correctly. It is like the 1804 in that it has different communication speeds and needs to be set to the correct one. I was sent a string from ray a while back of WS2811 and they worked on SSC V4, SSC v3, and Zeus so not sure the ones someone got that did not work on, but I think it was setup to a different com speed is my guess.


RJ
Is com speed adjustable on a string?  Wouldn't com speed be defined by the controller? (SSC?)

Nope this is the speed of the pic on the pixel and set by the factory during assembly.

Rick R.
so, a firmware change would be needed to adjust the clock speed of the pixel data coming out of the ssc in order to support more ws2811 strings...
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: jnealand on August 05, 2013,
I am always puzzled by why we seem to continually look at unsupported devices.  What is wrong with using the ones in the wiki?  Saving a dollar or two or three does not make sense to me when I look at the total cost of my display investment and I don't need the hassles of trying to make the non supported stuff work.  I am not talking about totally new stuff, but I just don't see the rationale for using WS2811 vs using the 180x stuff.  Can someone explain this to me.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: keitha43 on August 05, 2013,
Actually the reason I was interested was the design of the node itself. Looks to be more waterproof and easier to mount without worrying about possibly spreading the wires too much and easier mounting of covers over the led and mounting the node to various materials. The ws2811 seems to be a more popular chip type now and has more variety of shaped nodes. And the cost was a little cheaper. However after discovering here that even the TM1804 chips have more than 1 speed as well, I wouldn't place an order for those strands either until someone has verified they work with our SSC's v3 or v4.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: zwiller on August 05, 2013,
I think it is a natural evolution to push the boundaries, but I think the rage right now about the 2811 is the new strand that is out.  IP68, flexible mounting options, great cover options, waterproof connectors built in.  Might be a game changer and a standard string for the future.  The 100ct mini of RGB maybe... 

Once enough of the V4 have made into the hands of 2811 users we'll know for sure if the the 2811 is officially supported.  I bet it  works.  FYI I have seen posts reporting Ray's actual quotes are a bit higher for the 2811 than posted online, so the pricing is very much in line with the 1804. 

I am very interested to find out if the flat back injection molded 1804 nodes with conformal coated are good enough for us. 
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: keitha43 on August 05, 2013,
With this particular strand of ws2811, neither the v4 or v3 SSC worked with it.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: Steve Gase on August 05, 2013,
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I am always puzzled by why we seem to continually look at unsupported devices.  What is wrong with using the ones in the wiki?  Saving a dollar or two or three does not make sense to me when I look at the total cost of my display investment and I don't need the hassles of trying to make the non supported stuff work.  I am not talking about totally new stuff, but I just don't see the rationale for using WS2811 vs using the 180x stuff.  Can someone explain this to me.
IMO, the problem with the smart strings in the wiki was the water-proofedness of the pixels.  The IP66 gave them a bad name, but even the IP68 pixels are not error free when tension is applied.


The new FirePix string that recently came out are well-designed, the injection-molded fixture, the ability to mount them and have them point outwards to get better effects, and many various other attributes made these lights attractive.


The initial offering for these Technicolor / FirePix lights use WS2811 -- i believe that decision was based on reducing cost.


For some people, the WS2811 lights are more about cost, and for others it is about the ability to select from more shapes.




I don't know if other vendors will offer the option, but getting the TM1804 chip instead of the WS2811 in the technicolor/firepix strings from Ray Wu is something that seals the deal for me.


I am waiting on a order for firepix strings with TM1804 -- I don't trust the WS2811 to make it worth a significant investment.  But I also ordered a couple short WS2811 strings that I will experiment with.  I hope to report back with my results for each -- SOON.


Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: tbone321 on August 05, 2013,
Are you ordering these strings from Ray?
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: MazdaFan on August 05, 2013,
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I am always puzzled by why we seem to continually look at unsupported devices.  What is wrong with using the ones in the wiki?  Saving a dollar or two or three does not make sense to me when I look at the total cost of my display investment and I don't need the hassles of trying to make the non supported stuff work.  I am not talking about totally new stuff, but I just don't see the rationale for using WS2811 vs using the 180x stuff.  Can someone explain this to me.

I would say that it is a mixture of two things. 

First, we do it for the same reason that we stop at a gas station that has fuel for $3.58 other than the one across the street that has fuel for $3.59.  In a 15 gal tank, we save $0.15 if the tank is completely empty.  Not much if you consider the entire price of our fuel bill for the year, but the phrase "A penny saved is a penny earned" has been drilled into our heads since we could walk to the point that, if presented with a choice, we will almost always go with the cheaper product. 

Second is the hacker spirit.  We are "Do-It-Yourself"ers.  We are constantly pushing the boundaries with new ideas and new projects.  Without that spirit, RJ would have never created the Lynx line as there was already light controllers out there, Vixen would have never come into being because we already have working sequencing software, and none of us would be here chatting on this board because we'd be using something else that had previously been proven to work. 

Personally, I cheer the hacker spirit and hope we continue to constantly push the boundaries of what is already present and accepted. 

Jamie
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: rrowan on August 05, 2013,
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Actually the reason I was interested was the design of the node itself. Looks to be more waterproof and easier to mount without worrying about possibly spreading the wires too much and easier mounting of covers over the led and mounting the node to various materials. The ws2811 seems to be a more popular chip type now and has more variety of shaped nodes. And the cost was a little cheaper. However after discovering here that even the TM1804 chips have more than 1 speed as well, I wouldn't place an order for those strands either until someone has verified they work with our SSC's v3 or v4.

I came across this post. So if anybody is asking Ray for a sample of the ws2811 chip I would see about this speed 800 Kbps as per Robert.

Quote
If you ordered from the wiki, you are safe...

If not...
There are 4 flavors, three speeds, and three voltages...

1803 - no
1804, 1809, 1812 - if speed and voltage are right

Slow, fast, ?? (400, 800, & 1600 Kbps)
The sscs do the 800 Kbps. Some strings don't seem to care about the speed, but the strips are less tolerant

5v, 12v, 24v.
All smartstring hardware is 12v. There is no easy way to convert it to 5v. I thought about putting a 5 volt regulator after the ssc, but then realized that I would need a really big heat sink to dissipate 28 watts... (7 volt drop x ~4 amps)

If you bought the cheapest 18xx strings, there is a good chance that they are the 5v version.

If all else fails, the San devices e681 will do almost any type of node, but it is different...
If you go that route, be sure to dry run the assembly process. When I bought mine there were some things that were not clear and correcting the omissions was more difficult after everything else was already soldered to the board.

RM

« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 08:22:34 AM by rm357 »
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Robert
Warner Robins, Georgia, USA

Rick R.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: lboucher on August 05, 2013,
I personally am very happy to have found the recent posts.
I was about to order a fair amount of lights for this year.
Had my hopes set high for the newer clear flat node types.
Just watched a video showing them coming apart at the ends and letting water in, easily.

To me, its all about waterproofing.
I want this investment to last a long time.
I have 5 strands of, lets call it Gen 1 Smart Strings.
Did the dipping, still had issues, cut open and repaired multiple units.
Then liquid electrical taped all the ends, that wasn't fun and lost some brain cells there.
Now the second coat of liquid electrical tape is splitting off.
Happy, they have lasted fairly long all things considered, but man it takes work.

I see the video of the Technicolor node, and it looks much much better.
So i have decided to hold off, until I can get that node, don't care what chip as long as it works.
Also the rumor of a second supplier gives me hope of a price break next year.

Couple questions.
1. Will the Technicolor node also come in the 4 wire dumb string variety?
2. What is this Firepix? (Same as Technicolor?)
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: keitha43 on August 05, 2013,
Firepix is the same as the technicolor. However that vendor is only selling the WS2811 version that did not work with the current v3 or v4 ssc. As far as I know only Ray is saying he will produce some with the TM1804 chip which is the same chip the current supported smartstrings use. However it "could" be running at the wrong communication speed. I believe Steve is ordering some to try to confirm compatibility with ssc's. I don't want to name the other vendor so as to not break any forum rules. However that vendor was at "The Academy". So was the creator of this new node design which I think is much better for waterproofing and won't have issues with wires separating from the circuit boards.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: Steve Gase on August 05, 2013,
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Firepix is the same as the technicolor. However that vendor is only selling the WS2811 version that did not work with the current v3 or v4 ssc. As far as I know only Ray is saying he will produce some with the TM1804 chip which is the same chip the current supported smartstrings use. However it "could" be running at the wrong communication speed. I believe Steve is ordering some to try to confirm compatibility with ssc's. I don't want to name the other vendor so as to not break any forum rules. However that vendor was at "The Academy". So was the creator of this new node design which I think is much better for waterproofing and won't have issues with wires separating from the circuit boards.
hopefully in the next 1-2 weeks I will receive TM1804, and some WS2811 "Technicolor" strings from Ray.  I should also have my V4s in that time to go along with existing V1, V2, and V3 SSCs.  I will test each of these combinations.
 
HolidayCoro markets similar strings as "FirePix".  They come from another manufacturer.  I'm not sure why we can't mention David's company...  but I would hold off buying them until someone tests them.  David does not list Lynx as a compatible controller -- so maybe he's already done some testing. 
 
I agree that it would be good to have multiple trusted vendors for this community, not only for price, but for variety and availability options.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: keitha43 on August 05, 2013,
The creator released his design to more than one manufacturer and struck a deal to get a discount in manufacturing so that US vendor could be competitive pricewise with Ray. So far they are the only 2 sources that I am aware of for this node. But so far the US vendor is not offering a TM1804 version. I heard David was saying at The Academy that they wouldn't work with SSC's. I figured he was just going by old information about compatability with WS2811. After the failure in my testing I am thinking he may have tried it himself. Perhaps I am overly cautious about naming the vendor but better safe than sorry.
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: Steve Gase on August 18, 2013,
Still waiting on my TM1809 and WS2811 Technicolor strings to arrive... but today I visited with the San Antonio workgroup and they showed off Ray Wu's WS2811 strings working with SSC v2 (maybe patched to v3... unsure) and working with the SSCv4 too!
Title: Re: Node Types ?
Post by: Steve Gase on September 26, 2013,
I received my strings and provided my observations under this thread:
http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=12413.0 (http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=12413.0)