DiyLightAnimation

Hardware => Lynx Express => Topic started by: IndianaChristmas on March 03, 2012,

Title: First Coop Boards
Post by: IndianaChristmas on March 03, 2012,
I have started soldering my kits received from the first coop.
I am trying to solder the green connectors to the board for the outputs.  The holes on two of these boards aren't big enough to allow the connectors through them.  I have tried using the smallest unit of connect (3) since I figured it was an issue trying to push all 16 through and still no luck.  The other two boards accept the connectors fine.  My question is can I Dremel the holes bigger or the connectors smaller and not destroy the board or connectors?  Thanks.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: sjb on March 03, 2012,
There was a previous discussion about this. Please read the thread below

http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=8120.15

Steve
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: RJ on March 03, 2012,
Seems some of the pcbs have a little excessive solder in the holes than ever before. not sure why but since I keep the holes tight before to add in assembly it is making it hard on some of then to get them in. Since the current traces are all on the bottom you can clean the hole out a little but try to not take the plating off the hole completely or the snubber resistor will lose connection and become not effective. You might not even know unless you have leds that really need the snubbers.

Its funny that this would be on these pcbs after having thousands made with out issues. I am going to call them Monday and ask if they can explain it. And do I need to be concerned with it being this way in the furture? If so I will have to redo the pcbs with a larger hole to compansate.

RJ

RJ
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: tbone321 on March 03, 2012,
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I have started soldering my kits received from the first coop.
I am trying to solder the green connectors to the board for the outputs.  The holes on two of these boards aren't big enough to allow the connectors through them.  I have tried using the smallest unit of connect (3) since I figured it was an issue trying to push all 16 through and still no luck.  The other two boards accept the connectors fine.  My question is can I Dremel the holes bigger or the connectors smaller and not destroy the board or connectors?  Thanks.

I would be carefull with a Dremel.  They spin fast and can cause a lot of damage real quick.  A drill bit that fits tightly in the hole would probably work better at cleaning the hole without trashing the traces.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: pk on March 03, 2012,
I compared the holes on these pcbs to an extra express pcb I had from last year that I did not get around to building.  I ended up using a #59 (0.041 dia) drill bit and turned it by hand to open the hole.  In my set of drill bits a #58 would not fit in the holes from the older express pcb.

Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Jeffl on March 03, 2012,
This is one of those cases where more power is not better, just some TLC with a drill bit should work.  Take the pieces apart and install them one-by-one.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Mimir on March 04, 2012,
I have my 2nd of 3 coop kits completed.  My first board had no problems at all with the wire connectors.  My second and third both have the problem.  I just want to share what I found.  When I made the holes big enough for the connectors to go in, it destroyed the trace through the hole.  I used a multimeter and the third pcb to figure out where the connections should go and had to make the connections with wire on the back of the board.  For those of you that have this problem, you should check to make sure that there is conductivity between the negative (neutral) wire connector for each channel and the right side of the 47k resistors. 

Hope this helps.

John
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Jeffl on March 04, 2012,
I just built 6 and had one that was stiff.  The other five had perfect alignment.  I used a 1/16 bit and just worked a little on each hole as necessary.  I didn't go all the way though.  1/16 was to large however and really needed something smaller.  The key is by hand.  Anytime you grab a drill for this task your asking for trouble, don't do it.

The key is taking the parts apart and working with them as three or four pins however them come apart.  I even had to trim the edge of some where they slide together with a utility knife.  Once they are soldered together you can't tell the difference.

The pics also needed flashing but that was a snap having the PicKit ready and running.

Take you time and happy building.

Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Mimir on March 04, 2012,
I am saying check the conductivity. I did all of it by hand, and did not go all the way through either, but still did not have the connection when I checked. 
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Jeffl on March 04, 2012,
Did you spin the trace off?

I checked mine and they are all good.  I only had I think one hole that I went all the way though but the trace around the hole was still plenty good.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Mimir on March 04, 2012,
No, I didn't damage the pad around the hole, but only 1 of my neutral connections was there after soldering the wire blocks in.  I fixed my board.  I just wanted to let other know that they should check just in case.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: n1ist on March 05, 2012,
The problem is not damaging the pad, it's removing the plating on the edges of the hole.  On a double sided board with plated-through holes, the edge of the hole is plated, forming a connection between the pad on the top and the pad on the bottom.  If you damage this plating, the connection will be broken.

/mike
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Jeffl on March 05, 2012,
That is correct.

With that being the case, I would think you could either loose the resistor connectivity or power from the triac.  I guess I need to test each channel on the board I had issues with to make sure they have connectivity to the resistor and voltage when turned on.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Penfold on March 05, 2012,
maybe if you sandpaper the leads a bit that might help you squeeze it in.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: RJ on March 05, 2012,
How many are having this issue? I pulled some of the pcbs from this order and the connectors fit in the ones I could find. A few were tighter than I remember ever seeing but this sounds like some might be even tighter. I can send you a pcb if you have not already got parts in the pcb but I imagine you do.

You will not prevent it from working even if you drill the plating out of the holes you will just loose the function of the snubber resistor since it is the only top side connection.

RJ
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Jeffl on March 05, 2012,
I checked the last 5 I have and 4 are to tight to fit.  One slipped right in.  The ones that are tight don't look like they are nothing I can't fix.

I think I need a 1.5 mm drill bit as the post size is 1.3 mm.

Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: wwwgator on March 05, 2012,
of the two in this coop, one was tight, the other was perfect.
Separating the blocks helped, as did a touch of sand paper on the leads helped ease them in.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: PJNMCT on March 05, 2012,
Both boards I just received are very tight. looks like some sanding might do the trick.

-Paul
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: memphislights on March 06, 2012,
So far the first 3 boards ( 3 left to do) have had very tight terminal holes.  I have started "gently" beating smaller sections into place with a rubber handled screwdriver instead of placing the whole line in at once.  It is a little disconcerting watching me beat on an LE, but everything still seemed to work when I go done soldering.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: RJ on March 06, 2012,
I am sure I can get some replacement pcbs in a few weeks for anyone that has not put their parts on and finds this to be the case hold up and pm me let me know I need to know how many we are talking about that need replacement before I can do anything. There were no change to the pcb so while they are research the issue it will come down to a mislocated bit in the drilling machine autoloader carosel I would imagine.

RJ 
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: combustionmark on March 07, 2012,
Just checked out the 10 I received.

2 are tight, not going to be a problem.
8 drop right in.

The 2 that are tight, look like the plating is thicker, all holes a little smaller, and 1 via is full.

Have fun
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: pk on March 07, 2012,
RJ -  What should the finished hole diameter be for these 32 holes?
Title: First Coop Boards
Post by: LightUpMA on March 07, 2012,
Mine were tight but after some coaxing they went in begrudgingly.


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Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: IndianaChristmas on March 07, 2012,
The 2 boards I have issues with I can get the connectors in partially.  There are holes that are just too narrow; not all holes mind you.  It seems to be about 1/2 of them.  The bad ones I can't even pass a #59 drill bit through without forcing.  I don't think it is a lot of extra solder mind you; just enough to make a challenge.  Eventually have been able to slowly wear away the solder enough to get the connectors on one of the boards.  Still working with the second one!  Can't send back as I put the parts on already!
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Titus on March 10, 2012,
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Mine were tight but after some coaxing they went in begrudgingly.


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Same here.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Dennis Cherry on March 11, 2012,
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Mine were tight but after some coaxing they went in begrudgingly.


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I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?c3n54h
Same here.

I help someone yesterday building there first LE and saw the problem. Seems the PCB house might have over plated the board and also the tolerance of the holes size might be a little to close and not allow any excessive over plating which can happen sometimes.

It is tight, maybe RJ can specify a slightly larger drill hole size for the connector strips.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: urthegman on March 11, 2012,
Hmmm, not going to make any tight jokes, but that's the way I like it!!!! <fp.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: tbone321 on March 11, 2012,
The tolerance for the holes was done this way on purpose to prevent the terminal strips from falling out when users were soldering them in.  I have been here for years and this is the first time I have ever seen this happen.  I wouldn't be to quick to suggest making changes to the board.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: SteveMaris on March 11, 2012,
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The tolerance for the holes was done this way on purpose to prevent the terminal strips from falling out when users were soldering them in.  I have been here for years and this is the first time I have ever seen this happen.  I wouldn't be to quick to suggest making changes to the board.
I agree,
 the only thing that needs to change is quality control on the end of the board makers.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: bassmants on March 18, 2012,
1 of the 2 I received in the coop were this way.  I managed to get it together by separating them and putting them one at a time after slightly reaming the holes that were tight.  Everything tested OK when I finished. 
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: mmais68569 on March 18, 2012,
So as to be real clear on this the problem is with the holes the 16 LED's in the middle of the board go through.

          Mike
Title: First Coop Boards
Post by: rm357 on March 18, 2012,
The problem is with the terminal strip that goes all the way down one side.
Title: First Coop Boards
Post by: kmcallorum on March 18, 2012,
I too had the issue, I used a file on the stem and worked them in pieces. Snapping them back together as they begun to fit.  It works but is really time consuming, and in the end pcb untouched and a working board.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Rogelio on March 18, 2012,
2 of the 4 boards I have were too tight.  Had to drill them out a little.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: RJ on March 18, 2012,
sorry for the issue it is a plating issue but do not have an answer on what happened just that they would replace any that were unusable. Seems the majoritity of users have been able to sand down the post a small bit nd get them to fit. Any that could not I have replaced with the spare pcbs I ordered for the store and have an order in to replace them.

Once my heatsink order and pcb replacement get here I can restock the store with some pcbs.

RJ
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: chrisatpsu on March 18, 2012,
i have a board from the 2md coop that has this problem, should i attempt assembly, or do you reccomend replacing the board before i get started?
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: RJ on March 18, 2012,
If it is just a matter of polishing then pins then do it, if it is more than that then it needs replaced but it may need to wait until new pcbs arrive.

RJ
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: pk on March 18, 2012,
I drilled the holes with a #58 drill bit (0.042 DIA) and the terminal strip went in easier.  After drilling, I verified there was still continuity on the component side from the neutral connection of the input power connection to the neutral connection of each channel.  Don't forget channels 1-8 get the neutral from the left side and channels 9-16 get neutral from the right. 
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Robert Waller on March 19, 2012,
Here's a bit more info that might help diagnose this in some way.  I measured the pin diameter of a hundred or so random sampled terminal pins and my typical pin diameter measurement was about 1.06 mm.  A few of the pins were as thick as 1.10 mm and many were in the 1.07 to 1.09 range.  My solution was to chase the holes with a 1.1 mm carbide micro drill using a jewelers drill press.  Since I've been building some of prototype PCBs, I have most drill sizes up to 6.5 mm in 0.05 mm steps.   I found 1.05 was still too tight for some of the terminal pins.  While chasing the holes, I watch the drill shaving and for the most part, I only see the plating material.  After chasing, I also check the continuity and resistance to make sure I have a good front to back connection.  I haven't had any problems with using this process so far.  Here's a summary of my experiences.

Last Year

I built 32 LEs last year for my display.  I don't remember having any issues with the terminal pins fitting last year.  However, they were snug and required a bit of force from time to time.

First Coop This Year

I bought 6 LEs in the first Coop this year.  Two of the six required chasing.   
My neighbor across the street bought 2 LEs for his display and I needed to chase both of his boards.   

10 PCBs & Heat Sinks

I purchased 10 heat sinks and PCB between the first and second Coop this year.  One of ten of those boards required chasing.  Several of the others were extremely tight.

Second Coop This Year

I bought 6 LEs in the second Coop this year.  Five of the six PCBs from the second Coop required chasing.



As a note, at this point, I have sufficient LEs for my display this year.   However, I have several friends that may purchase LEs for their displays and I will probably help them build their boards.  So I try to keep track of this if needed.

Hope this information helps and again, thanks for all of your time and effort.
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: Rogelio on March 19, 2012,
My concern with the tight fit is will the solder be able to wick pass the pin and provide a good connection on the opposite side of the board.  Difficult to inspect after soldering.
Roy
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: RJ on March 19, 2012,
Solder is what is filling the hole when you heat it it will flow and do its job. It's just getting the ipns in the holes that is the issue.

RJ
Title: Re: First Coop Boards
Post by: tbone321 on March 19, 2012,
Since the problem appears to be to much solder plating on the board causing the tight fit, yoiu should no issues with that.  The solder being applied by you will reflow the existing solder causing the tight fit and you should be good to go.