DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: RJ on February 06, 2013,
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Since I keep seeing people recommending using this connection instead of the cat5 for waterproofing has anyone tested this at longer runs to see what kind of data integerity issues there are or are we just telling people this without knowing the potential issues?
If it works at longer lengths I would like to know as I might change the hubs to use it if the cables are not too expensive for everyone to get. I know when I looked at it I was concerned about the max lenght with out the twisted pair but the cost was more than the equipment at least at that time to buy them so it did not make sense.
I'm wanting to know if this has changed.
Also people that are having issues with the Cat5 connector are you water proofing them and still having issues? I never ran into this on my shows with them. Are we sure that those having issues are not running more than the current limits I posted? Cause the connectors if waterproof should have no issues with the max load I have posted.
I would like to hear real objective talk on this not "I did not like it so I did it this way" but more I did it like it is shown and here is what actually happened so I then did this and this is what I see know.
I would like to hear what others are seeing.
RJ
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I myself actually like the cat5, easy to use/store/setup. I've only ran mine for one season so far and I didn't have an issue and I didn't do a thing for waterproofing and they were out in the elements. I had rain/drizzle/snow.
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I had a few issues with the cat5 but they were dues to running show when wet. I wanted to see how it held up and they did well for the most part. I went outside and used a paper towel to dry up the connections I could get to and it went away. Running the show a few minutes took care of the others I couldn't reach. My original concern was the shorts would blow a hub fuse and happy to report it never happened! No waterproofing last year but I plan to try a bit this year on the cat5 area. Overall, I am not concerned enough to swap connectors and hope a squirt of corrosion x does the trick for the few times I need it.
I never read of using 4 conductors and assume these carry an additional 12V + line as I thought the 3 pins were suffice.
RJ, maybe you can use the connectors on a new mega tree board and make everyone happy... <yk..
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I do not have any experimental data to prove for test runs of cable for dropout, etc.
Prior to knowing about corrosion-x I experienced shorts (10 blown fuses) when the connectors and ssc were placed on the ground. There was no overload as I used 85 pixels per string.
Instead of tossing the damaged cat5 cable, I cut off the damaged rj45 plug and spliced on a female 4- core connector. The pigtail was also damaged and I replaced it with the male side.
I continue to run with twisted pair for the length of the run to the ssc, so little changes. Cat5 is still needed for the smart hub connections.
I wasn't concerned about wire gauge because the 4-core uses the same wire used by the 3-code going to the strings.
I still haven't tried a show with corrosion-x, partly because I haven't gotten a warm feeling from folks that it doesn't interfere in situations where you reconnect cables
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Here's what we did and we've been 100% trouble free: (4-pin IN and 3-pin OUT)
http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=6891.msg105503#msg105503
Using CAT5e spliced to the 4-pin, the longest run is 70 feet. I have one 100 ft run but used the fat Carol cable (part number listed in a previous message) and again, no problems.
My biggest weather problem is fog from the lake. Fog creeps into everything.
:) joe
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Here's our fix! :) (The 4-Wire connector to the SSC. Works under water!!)
:) joe
Are you going back to twisted pair after the connection?
RJ
In my case, yes. I use the original twisted pair for my run.
One thing that also works well is the use of 4-core for input to the ssc and 3-core for output. No danger of mixing them up!
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I'm sorry, I missed RJ's original question "Are you going back to twisted pair after the connection?"
RJ45 on hub --> RJ45+4-wire adapter --> 4-pin+cable+4-pin --> SSC --> 3-pin+node string
On the tree base is a CG1500 with the power supply and hacked-up distribution buss bars inside. I can take a picture once it warms up a bit outside.
:) joe
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Two seasons and I have never had any problems with RJ-45 connectors. I would be bummed to see RJ-45 connectors gone on hubs. I buy my Cat5e cables from Monoprice because I do not like putting the ends on. The current connectors make it real easy.
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at the length of run for the cables, i don't think anyone is running 4core cabling from hub to ssc. it would just be too expensive.
It looks like it's cat5 all the way to the end with a 4 core connector added instead of the cat5 connecters just outside the pvc.
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at the length of run for the cables, i don't think anyone is running 4core cabling from hub to ssc. it would just be too expensive.
It looks like it's cat5 all the way to the end with a 4 core connector added instead of the cat5 connecters just outside the pvc.
I interpreted Joe's response as not cat5...
RJ45 on hub --> RJ45+4-wire adapter --> 4-pin+cable+4-pin --> SSC --> 3-pin+node string
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We're using both, CAT5 and Carol wire. Short runs = CAT5 and long runs use Carol. Pictures to follow.
:) joe
at the length of run for the cables, i don't think anyone is running 4core cabling from hub to ssc. it would just be too expensive.
It looks like it's cat5 all the way to the end with a 4 core connector added instead of the cat5 connecters just outside the pvc.
I interpreted Joe's response as not cat5...
RJ45 on hub --> RJ45+4-wire adapter --> 4-pin+cable+4-pin --> SSC --> 3-pin+node string
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I am using Cat5 with Corrosion X. This year my display was almost always wet via rain or snow and the days that had no precipitation we had sub 0 degrees F. I did have 3 connections that I had to replace that were on the ground (grass) under my mega tree. On my roof I have 3 30'+ Cat 5 runs with no issues.
My long runs are as follows SS Active Hub>Cat 5 long run>SSC>Cat 5 under 3' to SSs.
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Here ye go! (I hope! I post and get a "page not found error")
The picture with the nodes and the extension cable, the extension is using CAT5e cable. I use the Carol wire for long cable runs, it's 22 AWG stranded four conductor and works perfectly.
I'm too crippled today to take pictures. Yell if anyone has questions.
:) joe
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I am using Cat5 with Corrosion X. This year my display was almost always wet via rain or snow and the days that had no precipitation we had sub 0 degrees F. I did have 3 connections that I had to replace that were on the ground (grass) under my mega tree. On my roof I have 3 30'+ Cat 5 runs with no issues.
My long runs are as follows SS Active Hub>Cat 5 long run>SSC>Cat 5 under 3' to SSs.
My megatree was 16' tall. i had a 3/4" metal emt pipe that i bent into a half circle and suspended it 2' off the ground. I attached my SSC's to that via a bungee cord. I had no issues. I did not use Corrosion X any place.
I made sure that my cat5 connections were facing down. If water came it would not pool in the connector. Or at least i thought i did. I did have one failure with melting snow that filled a cat5 connector on my roofline. It blew a fuse. try to make the cat 5 connections face down.
You also asked the cost, the 3 pin connectors were $0.50 each.
i like the cat5 connector. i soldered 3 pin connector to the ends of all my strings and flex strips. i soldered some between my arches. I have shrink tubing on the wirews and then shrink tubing over the entire thinbg, like 3 to 4" of it. i had zero issues with the 3 pin waterproof connectors. my only issues was it gets to be time to solder snd shrink sleeve the connections.
I had 20x120 flex strips, 16x128 strings. I kept the ssc's off the ground and tried to point the cat 5 facing down.
my vote would be to keep the cat5.
thanks
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what is carol wire? just 4 conductor stranded wire?
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Carol is the manufacturer. Our local electrical house carries that brand. Any manufacturer will do though. :)
I'm reminded that the star we pulley high up into a tree is fed with 150 ft of 4-wire 20 AWG. The star has 60-some RGB nodes (with the SSC attached to the star) and it too worked flawlessly this year, its second year.
I'm not breaking any rules with this discussion, am I? If so, I apologize.
One more thing, I keep all strings of nodes off an SSC to less than 80 nodes and that's only three effects. I prefer to run less than 50 off a single SSC.
:) joe
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Sorry for the departure, but Joe's picture had me wondering...
Joe...
It looks like you are bringing the pixelnet signal (orange/white+orange) into this enclosure and not using the power from the SS (Active?) Hub. Instead, you combine that incoming signal with power inside this enclosure to provide the 4-core connectors their SS power+signal.
You didn't create (16) rj45 to 4-core adapters.
I like it.
(http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11371.0;attach=10968)
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That's correct, Steve. It's simply my hacked-up version of the Pixelnet splitter.
The RJ45 cable between the Smarthub and this odd looking mess carries no power.
The Pixelnet signal from the Smarthub is actually FOUR signals. I took one of the RJ45 females (that came with the SSC) and put four RJ45 males on. Each wire color pair carries one signal from the Smarthub.
On the Smarthub end I did the same thing, so the four RJ45's plug into four different ports on the SmartHub.
I'm sorry if I'm not clear in my descriptions, I'm not physically up to par and my brain is dragging because of it.
Please yell if you have questions.
:) joe
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You didn't create (16) rj45 to 4-core adapters.
There is another outdoor Smarthub which uses RJ45-->4-core adapters but I cannot get to it to take pictures, it's boxed up.
Those "adapters" use sets of both CAT5 cable AND the Carol cable I mentioned earlier. The Carol is used for long runs, the CAT5 is used on the shorter runs.
I'm really sorry if I'm not being clear-headed, dang pain is about to get to me. Again.
:) joe
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I remembered I took pictures during the 2013 "breakdown." Here is a picture of the "Master Outdoor SmartHub." By "Master" I mean it talks to everything else in the show.
:) joe
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I thought the original post by RJ was whether to swap the cat5 female from the SSC for a 4-pin connector.
To me, I don't see much value added in changing the cat5 connection on the SSC, since as David said ... the cat5 is cheap and easy and the
ends are already completed (no splicing needed). I also like the cat5 cables because they have a little protection (vs. straight wire), but are so much easier to
pick up and store than extension cords ever were. They are also cheap enough that you can replace them if needed or buy color coded ones
on monoprice.
I think for me, being in Colorado like Sean and David ... we just don't get much (if any) rain in December and don't have corrosion issues
in our dry climate. Even the snow doesn't cause any problems that I've ever seen. When it snows, the battery box and all these connections are
just buried and there hasn't been a problem ... except that rabbits sometimes find the cat5 exterior tasty for some reason.
Thats a wild looking DIY SS hub and enclosure ... looks like an electrical panel almost. Its kind of confusing for newbies to see, I bet.
To me, I sometimes find the cat5 connections in SS HUB a bit crowded, so it might be nice to just have more room between jacks, but thats just
being nit picky. I can also by some short cat5 pigtails
and couplers and just spread it out if needed to make connections easier.
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If you are building from scratch, you can still get colored monoprice cables, stranded, and twisted pair for all of the reasons you have now.
Instead of purchasing the $1.57 pigtail, you'd get a 4-core connector pair for $0.70 from Ray. (i've seen them as low as $0.57 with free shipping from another source)
When assembling the SSC, use the 4-core pigtail instead.
Cut off one end of the monoprice cat5 and splice on the other part of the 4-core pigtail.
You'll save a dollar, and get all of the other benefits -- including better water-proofing.
oh... in the usually-dry Texas climate, 2 Christmas days (separate years) in a row were spoiled by torrential rains, resulting in trips on my circuit-breaker when I did LOR, and blown fuses in my smart string gear. This last Christmas I did not put up the smart strings or LOR -- no rain. Call it a coincidence if you like, but water-proofing is a must for me. :)
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I thought the original post by RJ was whether to swap the cat5 female from the SSC for a 4-pin connector.
It is. I was just tossing in my .02 cents worth. :)
To me, I don't see much value added in changing the cat5 connection on the SSC, since as David said ... the cat5 is cheap and easy and the
ends are already completed (no splicing needed). I also like the cat5 cables because they have a little protection (vs. straight wire), but are so much easier to
pick up and store than extension cords ever were. They are also cheap enough that you can replace them if needed or buy color coded ones
on monoprice.
You are 100% right on, as usual. CAT5 cable is the handy-dandy way of doing things and I approve of CAT5 with RJ45 ends completely. I just can't use that method in my application.
I think for me, being in Colorado like Sean and David ... we just don't get much (if any) rain in December and don't have corrosion issues
in our dry climate. Even the snow doesn't cause any problems that I've ever seen. When it snows, the battery box and all these connections are
just buried and there hasn't been a problem ... except that rabbits sometimes find the cat5 exterior tasty for some reason.
At both my house in town, and especially at the lake house (it too is decorated with RJ's Smart String goodies) moisture is a HUGE issue.
Fog from the lake can creep in between anything and everything. When it lands on something and freezes, it expands and next thing you know, stress and grief with an uppercase G.
I couldn't get by using the RJ45's on the SSC side of things. I have no choice but to convert to Ray's waterproof 3-pin and 4-pin connectors.
I suspect if I lived in the desert, I wouldn't have had to go through all the trouble and effort I did.
The SmartHubs in both the CG1500 cases and the metal "Hoffman" boxes do not suffer from fog penetration, or moisture issues. I don't "goo" 'em with any waterproofing.
Thats a wild looking DIY SS hub and enclosure ... looks like an electrical panel almost. Its kind of confusing for newbies to see, I bet.
Some of the parts are for an electrical panel, such as the buss bars. The "signal" connector was from Radio Shack, sure fits the bill.
I hope my discussion doesn't freak out the newbies. Or the old timers! :) I had no choice but to "adapt and overcome," that ol' U.S. Marine phrase.
:) joe
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As I have mentioned before, I do things opposite. My power supply, hub and SSCs are all within about 18 inches of each other. The run from the SSC to the display is the long wire(the longest this year was 35 feet to two arches). After running 6 arches and 32 candy canes for my Christmas show with no problems using this method, I will convert my whole 2013 show to this arrangement. I considered replacing the Cat5 connectors on the hub to soldered wires to the SSC connectors but, I like the flexibility I get from the Cat5 connectors.
BTW, I am in the Houston, Texas area. We have heavy dew almost every morning. The heat from the hub resistor keeps the relative humidity in the enclosure down. During the 4 weeks the boxes were out, i never saw any condensation inside the enclosure. The enclosures were powered up 24/7.
I vote to keep the Cat5 connectors on the hub.
Rick S
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so, to stay on topic - the carol wire, are the seperate conductors twisted? (like in a cat5 cable) if not, how long to you run the lengths?
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I vote to keep the Cat5 connectors on the hub.
+1
My only "improvement" IMHO is to use waterproof connectors at the SSC.
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I vote to keep the Cat5 connectors on the hub.
+1
My only "improvement" IMHO is to use waterproof connectors at the SSC.
+1 and +1
:) joe
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I have had several of the SSC dongles fry on me (6 to be specific, 2SSC and 4DSC). None of them happened after I put just a little effort into protecting them from the elements with some glad press and seal. This year I was planning to stock up on corrosion-X and continue using the press and seal.
One other observation I had was that I never had an issue when the cat5 connection points were pointing down and the dongle was hanging down. Not enough water got in to cause an issue in that case.
In addition, I currently have 6 16 port hubs and plan to add 2-3 more this year. Having a mix of connectors would make life more complicated IMO.
So my vote would be to keep the hubs as is. There are still many ways for others to work around the connector if they want to modify it.
Frank
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so, to stay on topic - the carol wire, are the seperate conductors twisted? (like in a cat5 cable) if not, how long to you run the lengths?
No, the Carol wires are not twisted, at least not in pairs.
I know the one run of Carol cable to the star "way up thar" in the tree is a good 150 feet long, or a little longer - that's between the SmartHub and the SSC. I believe the run to the wire-frame Santa (rewired Walmart Santa) is about that long too, also Carol.
At the lake house is a "blow mold" set of candles fed by a good 150 feet (each) of CAT5.
Except for better flexibility of the Carol cable in cold weather, I really cannot tell a brightness intensity between the two different types of cables but I never metered it.
All SSC's are less than 24" to the first node, typically 12" or less.
Am I helping any?
:) joe
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I wish to add one more comment. The "tree hanging" box doesn't show any fuses in the power lines, it's an older picture. I didn't receive the resettable fuses from Mouser until after the box was built and running the tree. Since that picture was taken the fuses were added and I ran "fused" this past year.
I believe I've followed RJ's intent of not illegally modifying (or hacking/reverse engineering) his equipment. After running RJ45's the first year and dealing with the corrosion I had to do something drastic. Using the waterproof connectors was the easiest and most cost effective route for me to take.
:) joe
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One more thing, I keep all strings of nodes off an SSC to less than 80 nodes and that's only three effects. I prefer to run less than 50 off a single SSC.
:) joe
I had 5 elements that maxed out the ssc (120 nodes of flexstrips) and I had no issues at all.
So I see most of the issues are from rain and ssc's on the ground. Since I want the strings near the ground for my mega I will probably use a second battery box to house the ssc's and just run 3 wire and connectors to the strings since the diameter will be less than the safe max ssc to node distance. I will probably forgo the pigtail and mount a male ended cat5 to ssc directly. Might even try to keep it all in one since I might only need 4 ssc's.
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For my pixel tree I ran a 4ft cat 5 wire soldered to the SSC and then going all the way to inside my battery box with the SSC. Worked great. You could make that 4ft wire become a 6ft wire or whatever you need and there would be no cat5 connections with direct exposure to water or other elements. I just used a velcro wrap to attach my SSC pipe bombs to each leg of the mega tree and I put them up high enough that the cat5 did not even touch the ground, but I did make sure that there was a bottom dip outside of the battery box so water running down the wire did not just flow into the battery box.
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This year it seemed like we had rain every weekend plus one or two times during the week.
I had all RJ45 connectors for power and data and then used the 3 core pigtails to the light strands.
After running the show for about two weeks, I had two issues. Some lights were staying on when the show was off and another time I had whole sections not lighting. After some experimentation I found out that the driver chips on the hubs were overloading and would shut down. I first thought it was fuses blown until I figured out what was going on.
So the next day, I went around and one at a time unplugged each SSC and sprayed corrosion X on the RJ45 plug and on the RJ45 socket. Once I had did this on all the SSC's I went back around and started plugging them back together in same order, giving just a little drying time. If they seemed a little wet still I would give them a quick shake to get any excess off. When doing this I noticed several of the connectors the contacts had become black on some of the plugs from moisture. The show had started for that evening and when i was plugging them in each strand would start working. After I sprayed the corrosion X, I did not have any more problems for the remaining 4 weeks even though we had tons more rain. I would say about 80% of my connectors were hand crimped compared to pre-made ones.
So my $.02 worth the corrosion X worked wonders and even corrected some of the connectors that had some black corrosion on the pins. The flexibility of the CAT5 cables and jacks along with their cheap price and quick connections and repairs and local availability makes more sense to me especially if you have to crimp a new cable or something quick like when a squirrel decides to chew through your CAT5 cables. ;D :o
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My setup is a long 70' cat6 from the house to a battery box at the base of my mega tree. Inside the battery box is my 1000W PS and active hub, from there I run out 16 ten foot cat6 patch cable to all my SSC's and another cat6 cable for DMX out. All my SSC's have the cat5 end facing down and I turn off my PS every night and did not have any problems with moisture in the cat5 connectors.
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For my pixel tree I ran a 4ft cat 5 wire soldered to the SSC and then going all the way to inside my battery box with the SSC. Worked great.
This was the original design, there was just the limit of if you had an issue changing it out could be tougher so we went to the pigtails with the RJ45.
RJ
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I see some had the plugs on the ground , this will always be a problem as it cause it to lay in water if it rains or snows. I think it looks like what I was doing is working for everyone. Keep it off the ground pointed down and a little corrosion x and it works well. So seems we should stay as we are. I also understand that they are splicing the 4 pin connectors to cat5, I though you were using the 4 wire untwisted cable.
RJ
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I though you were using the 4 wire untwisted cable.
RJ
JoefromOzarks is using the 4 conductor untwisted cable