DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: ILOVETOTRYDIY on January 12, 2011,
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Scored this off of Craigslist for free today, is this what I need for the SS Hub?
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh55/Fashionableflamingo/012.jpg)
-Rebecca
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post the model number if you can find it.
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It says:
Bestec
Model: ATX - 300 -12E REV: D
Input: 100 - 127V -6A , 200 - 240V ~3A 60/50 HZ
Output +12V / 15A, -12V / 0.8A
300W Max. +5V / 30A, +5VSB /2A
+3.3V / 28A,
+5V & 3.3V 180W MAX
+5V & +12V & 3.3V 288W MAX
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http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3554.0;attach=4451 (http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3554.0;attach=4451)
Is the power requirements documentation for pixelnet.
the Bestec ATX-300-12e specs show it to have a 20pin atx connector. Rj mentions supplies with the 24pin.
I'm not sure how important that missing would be, but I think it also depends on the number of pixels you plan to use with the Hub.
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the Bestec ATX-300-12e specs show it to have a 20pin atx connector. Rj mentions supplies with the 24pin.
I'm not sure how important that missing would be, but I think it also depends on the number of pixels you plan to use with the Hub.
The extra four pins are pretty important -- they include an extra 12v connection.
I'm pretty sure the supply illustrated has what is called a 20+4 connector ... on the picture, see the strand that reaches down toward the bottom (looks to be orangy in the picture)? I think that's the +4 part of the connector. The 20 and the +4 slide together to become a 24-pin connector.
Whether this is enough power for your Smart Strings is an open question -- how many pixels are you intending to power?
Oh, I just ran across your posting saying you want 800 nodes. My little calculator says that would run about 284.8 watts, which when we add in the draw of the board of itself, it's probably getting to be too little headroom for a 300 watt power supply.
Which is to say that for 800 nodes, I'd want a 400-watt supply, if it were mine to do.
Also, if I were using a freebie from Craigslist in my show, I'd have a spare or two lying around just in case the freebie took a swan dive.*
\dmc
*BTW -- I *did* use cheap ($5-$10) computer power supplies in my 2010 show and I *did* have spares available.
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As per usual, stay awayfrom cheap supplies if you plan on pushing their rated current. You might get them to work a bit better if they are out in the cold. However, the cheap ones tend not work at their rated levels continuously and do have a habbit of letting smoke out. If you plan on hookig up a $1000+ worth of pixels/controllers to a hub, to cheap out on the supply is not a wise choice.
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Good to know, i'll just keep this for the servo drivers that power my diy animatronics.
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the power cable reaching towards the bottom in the picture is the +12v connector (black and yellow wires) that goes to the center of a p4 motherboard for example. even though it's carrying 12v (yellow insulation) , it wont plug into the hub (unlesss a change has been made.) those connectors wont physically plug into the last 4 pins of 24pin connector. it's designned that way to keep people from plugging in the power supply incorrectly when building a computer.
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Don't some PC power supplies need a load on them to run, or at least run properly? Is there a minimum number of nodes we should be using per hub to make sure we aren't going to overload anything?
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Don't some PC power supplies need a load on them to run, or at least run properly?
Yes, but RJ has side-stepped that issue by using the ATX-24 connector on the hub board -- the power requirements of the hub board provides the load to keep the PS running.
Is there a minimum number of nodes we should be using per hub to make sure we aren't going to overload anything?
Did you mean "maximum" instead of "minimum"?
\dmc
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There are extra 12V lines on the other 4 pins of a 24pin ATX, but they are redundant to existing 12V connections on the 20 pin. I use 20 pin power supplies on boards with 24 pins all the time with no issues. It will work but you are probably best to get the "kit #3" in the coop and plug in the disk drive connectors also to the hub just to get all you need to get out of the power supply to the hub.
Kirk
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That is not what kit 3 is for. If you are using a computer power suplly, kit 3 is not needed and you can and should plug in the drive connectors as well. That is what the jacks are there for. Kit three is used if you are going to connect the hub to a 12V only supply to supply the also needed 5V
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Kit #3 is not for use along side a PC power supply, If you use Kit #3 to supply 12VDC do not use the ATX or other PC power supply connectors.
Bill
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Kit #3 is not for use along side a PC power supply, If you use Kit #3 to supply 12VDC do not use the ATX or other PC power supply connectors.
Bill
Bill can you have Kit 3 installed but use the ATX supply? (Flexibility / future use)
Harrison
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I would think so since the 12V only uses a dfferent input. For the price it really makes sense to order them anyway just in case.
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I would think so since the 12V only uses a dfferent input. For the price it really makes sense to order them anyway just in case.
That's my option also.
Harrison
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I agree to buy the 12v board as well. For four bucks a piece it gives you flexibility.
RW
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I don't know if RJ put anything in place to prevent the current from one supply from feeding back through the other, but in general it is never a good idea to hook together the outputs of two voltage regulators. Buy the parts if you like, but I would not install them and use the PC power supply.
It might be OK, but there is a good chance you will let the magic smoke out...
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I don't believe that it's a board. I believe that it is a few components and according to RJ, they can be installed even if you are using a PC supply although in that case they are not serving any purpose.
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--> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030
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That is not what kit 3 is for. If you are using a computer power suplly, kit 3 is not needed and you can and should plug in the drive connectors as well. That is what the jacks are there for. Kit three is used if you are going to connect the hub to a 12V only supply to supply the also needed 5V
My bad- I thought kit 3 WAS the extra drive connectors, but I understand better now that it is a 5v/3.3v capability so you can use a 12v only ps. My advice of using the 20 pin atx AND disk power is correct. Kirk.
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--> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371030
Just make sure the amount of nodes is low enough for this one to handle. It is not near the power as the other posted one.
RJ
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I don't believe that it's a board. I believe that it is a few components and according to RJ, they can be installed even if you are using a PC supply although in that case they are not serving any purpose.
It is a Power connector to feed the 12v into the pcb and the parts for a 3.3 volt and 5 volt regulator circuits to power the electronics on the pcb for the amps and DMX out.
You have no need to have it if you are using a computer power supply. Only if you are using a 12 volt only power supply.
RJ
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I'd be careful about running a board with the kit3 regulators on an ATX supply as I don't see any isolation, and you will be tying the on-board regulators in parallel with the ATX supply.
/mike
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I'd be careful about running a board with the kit3 regulators on an ATX supply as I don't see any isolation, and you will be tying the on-board regulators in parallel with the ATX supply.
/mike
Not sure I understand your concern. No matter what, all lower lever voltages rails are isolated via the transformer. Whether the lower voltages come off a seperate winding on the flyback transformer or a linear regulator off 12V...the end result is the same since they share the same ground on the secondary side.
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Oh, I just ran across your posting saying you want 800 nodes. My little calculator says that would run about 284.8 watts, which when we add in the draw of the board of itself, it's probably getting to be too little headroom for a 300 watt power supply.
Which is to say that for 800 nodes, I'd want a 400-watt supply, if it were mine to do.
Also, if I were using a freebie from Craigslist in my show, I'd have a spare or two lying around just in case the freebie took a swan dive.*
\dmc
Also take note when looking at wattage...if you see a power supply rated at "XXX" watts, that is probably the total wattage across all the rails. What is mostly driving the smart strings is the 12V rails only. (at least as I understand it now)
The original PS was rated "300 watts", but the 12V rail was rated at 15 amps (12V x 15A = 180 watts) - so it's substantially undersized for the 288 watts worth of nodes. Even a "400 watt" supply may not have enough juice on the 12V rail to do the job.
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I obviously haven't seen the schematics for any of this, but from viewing the pixelnet hub picture in the wiki, it looks like there's no isolation diodes or jumpers between the outputs of the optional 5 and 3.3v regulators and the ATX connector.
Therefore, if you have the regulators loaded (as for the 12V only option) and plug in an ATX supply instead, you will have the ATX rails and the regulator outputs tied together, and the regulators don't like to sink current.
It's possible that I'm wrong here; we should wait for RJ to chime in.
/mike
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The original PS was rated "300 watts", but the 12V rail was rated at 15 amps (12V x 15A = 180 watts) - so it's substantially undersized for the 288 watts worth of nodes. Even a "400 watt" supply may not have enough juice on the 12V rail to do the job.
Corey:
My bad -- you're absolutely right.
Sizing will need to be done based on all the +12v ratings, plus headroom, basically discounting the 3v and 5v ratings.
\dmc
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Use a good Power Supply.
Newegg constantly has specials and rebates on Antec and OCZ power supplies in the 500+ wattage arena.
Plan on spending at least $50.
You can get alot of good power between $50 and $100.
Read the reviews. They are honest reviews at their site.
Randy
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I obviously haven't seen the schematics for any of this, but from viewing the pixelnet hub picture in the wiki, it looks like there's no isolation diodes or jumpers between the outputs of the optional 5 and 3.3v regulators and the ATX connector.
Therefore, if you have the regulators loaded (as for the 12V only option) and plug in an ATX supply instead, you will have the ATX rails and the regulator outputs tied together, and the regulators don't like to sink current.
It's possible that I'm wrong here; we should wait for RJ to chime in.
/mike
You are correct.
I never thought much about it since the intent was to have a place to add the optional parts if you did not want to use a ATX supply.
Then the other night someone said there is no reason I can not have the optional on there in case right and I without thinking about it replied no.
Thanks for pointing it out. I will post to make sure everyone does not do it and put a warning in the manual.
RJ
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I expected maybe 5% - 10% of the hubs to be ordered with the optional parts so the large amount of optional kits has had me wondering. This is why I posted that you did not need it unless you were using a 12 volt only non computer power supply.
RJ
Like a battery on a vehicle... <wd..
-Paul
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They are almost 14 volts not 12
RJ
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I am planning to run a computer PS, but at only $4 for the kit, I ordered mine as 'cheap insurance' in case I decide (or have an emergency) and need to run 12 only.
Also curious - could a person put identical PS's in parallel to boost the current? I noticed there was a warning about PS's with multiple 12V rails. But I vaguely remembered a project years ago where a guy tied a dozen of the things together and made an arc welder?
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You would have to Diode back every power source on each supply. This could get hairy with PC power supplies. If I wanted to do this I would recommend building a special board with the diodes for each supply and appropreate connections and jumpers over to the Smart String board. Better just use 12V power supplies designed for this purpose. Unfortunately, The are going to cost mega $$$$ I doubt you want to spend the money. I wouldn't.
I think you are better off to just have the backup ready.
Greg
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I agree I found a nice p/s setup to do this so you can stack them to get what ever you want and they will load balance. But they were only 50 amps each and price ... and let say it this way .. I could have a lot of ATX computer power supplys putting 100 's of amps for what it cost. Still thought about it though.
RJ
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Good info - thanks guys. admittedly, I haven't messed around with computer power supplies that much. They are either setting on a shelf or in a computer and I use a bench power supply for all my testing work. My only thought was if a guy had several supplies just laying around, maybe parallel them to a common rail and even if one died, the others would carry on until the dead unit could be replaced. But sounds like keeping them all happy paralleled would be more hassle than it's worth.
I was also a bit surprised - even scouting out the usual surplus dealers and discount stores for other power supplies, watt-for-watt, an ATX PS seems to be the cheapest by far.