DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: lboucher on September 17, 2011,
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The following is the story of an idiots long week at work.
(I preface this with recognition to RJ, these nodes still rock and are great.)
So a few weeks ago I saw RJ's video about sealing each node with plasti dip.
I went back and for a couple times debating this as I wasn't exactly sure what I was going to do with the lights.
Eventually i settled on a small mega tree and decided that I would seal them.
In the meantime I went ahead and build the tree.
Then i threw the lights on them for 9/11 just to see how they looked and see how i was going to support them with heavy string to keep the weight off of them. (Just like RJ did in his video.)
In general that worked, but learned a few little lessons that would have resulted in less pull on the wires.
Figured it to be a good lesson learned for when I put them up in Christmas.
Now things go bad.
I had only intended to leave it up a day or two, and there was no immediate threat of rain.
And given the northeast just experienced major flooding, i kinda figured I would be ok for a few days.
Well then work was annoying, and I never had time to get them down.
Rained good 2 days this week.
Didn't touch them for like 2 days.
Planned on sealing them this weekend.
Last night we had a bit of rain, wasn't sure how much.
Checked a few of the nodes hear and there, they looked ok, didn't see much of a hint of water, althought they did look a bit cloudy, wasn't 100% sure why, didn't see actual water. Figured it might just be the platic reacting to the elements.
Meanwhile during the day I put together some AC-AC relays for controlling other equipment.
Went to test, and figured i would just plug my express into my SSC hub dmx out.
Started up my sequence and my relays looked fine.
Looked out the window, and to my horror, many many nodes were either not on, or a un-expected color.
<fp. <fp. <fp. <fp. <fp.
So i turned them off, got them taken down.
I wrapped them around some board to keep some pull on them, while I place them right next to a de-humidifier in a closed room for at least a day.
Here is ta hopin they dry out. Good old wifey aint going to be happy about having to replace those.
Will let everyone know how the drying process turnes out.
Moral of the story, Don't trust yourself to ever have enough time to get your plans done in time. (Ohh and don't assume it won't rain.)
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When did you buy your nodes?
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Interesting they would be affected so fast and so many. We had ours up for two months with a few weeks of rain everyday and only near the end did we have any issues and only a handful of nodes. These were are first and we did not seal them.
RJ
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I bought them maybe 3+ months ago.
Further inspection on teardown did show actual water in them I could sqeeze out.
Will have to see how well they dry and or maybe I stressed a wire or two also.
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Well after 24 + hours drying, it doesn't seem as bad as it looked.
2 Strands look like they may be fine.
Another looks like maybe just a node or two.
And 2 other strands definitly have a few bad nodes, and show intermittent communication issues down the strand.
So maybe a dozen nodes bad out of 5 strands, not horrible but it will take a bit to splice in some new nodes.
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Can you sqirt some Corrosion x in them to displace the water and protect them?
RJ
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I had never heard of Corrosion X before. Can definitely give it a try.
I was also going to do the Plasti Dip thing, Reading up on Corrosion X it appears to be a lubricant of sort.
Do you think i will have any issues with the Plasti Dip after squirting some of this in the nodes?
(Wondering to myself if I should squirt some of this into all of them when i go down the line sealing with plasti dip.)
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WD-40 will also displace the water but you might have an issue with sealing them as well. Contact cleaner may remove the WD-40 but I would try it on a sacrificial node first to see if it works without damaging it.
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Yes I would worry about doing it if you are going to seal them. I was talking to fix them. I have not done it but wondered if the corrosion x would be enought by itself. If you could get just a little in them with out making a mess it will kind of coat the stuff.
RJ
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I just brought home a can of this from work. I am going to spray some nodes and see if it works.
http://permatex.com/products/Automotive/adhesives_sealants/specialty_adhesives/Permatex_Spray_Sealant.htm
I will spray a few nodes and dunk them in some water and see what happens.
I will post results.
John
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This post is a little off of the question being discussed here, but it does apply to sealing the nodes. I bought 10 each 128 node strings in the first buy. After I got them all fixed and tested using Ray Wu's tester (before we had RJ's controllers), I decided it was time to seal them. I had to order the Plasti Dip from US Plastics because NONE of the stores in my area (Kansas City) carried the clear dip. I finally got it and was ready to go. This is where I made a BIG mistake. I knew that I had to do this outside because of the chemicals used to dilute the product (fume problems). So I waited until the first cooler day that we had after this long hot summer. I had read everything that has been said on this wonderful forum, but I guess that I had a senior moment (if you are not there yet, you will be). Anyway, I decided to hang the strings between two trees for drying. BAD IDEA!!!!!! These strings will definitely not hold their own weight. (I know RJ told us that, but I really did not think that there would be a problem with the short drying time). The first day, I did five strings. I dipped and dried, then dipped and dried again. By the end of that time, two of the strings had completely broken in at least two different locations. ALL of the five strings had major (more than 4) problems because of disconnects and breaks. This is my fault. I just wasn't thinking. But I want to make sure that everyone here really understands the problem. It has taken me many hours of testing and splicing to fix this problem. And of course, now I do not have ten full 128 node strings.
The second batch of five strings went much better. I still tied the strings between the trees, but I put four sets of elevated polls across the area to hold the strings up off of the ground for drying. This worked, even though I still had two nodes that I had to replace afterwords.
So another word to the wise. Make sure that you support these strings, no matter how long or short they are. This was a costly lesson in terms of time and money.
I hope this little story helps everyone steer clear of this type of problem.
Jim Wright
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Well, it is true confessions time - when I sealed my nodes I used latex gloves, while I was doing the thrid string my hand felt damp and I noticed that the top of one of the fingers had disintegrated and fell into the dip.
After I recovered from flashbacks to the Andromeda Strain I pressed forward sans gloves. The bad news is the stuff is darn hard to remove. However, there are several good points about this:
1) I can now work in my electrical box without grounding of any kind
2) After the residue started to peel - it is fun to go to your doctor, shake hands and tell him you think you've come down with a fungus.
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Well, it is true confessions time - when I sealed my nodes I used latex gloves, while I was doing the thrid string my hand felt damp and I noticed that the top of one of the fingers had disintegrated and fell into the dip.
After I recovered from flashbacks to the Andromeda Strain I pressed forward sans gloves. The bad news is the stuff is darn hard to remove. However, there are several good points about this:
1) I can now work in my electrical box without grounding of any kind
2) After the residue started to peel - it is fun to go to your doctor, shake hands and tell him you think you've come down with a fungus.
Reading your post made my day!!! Excellent!! :)
:) joe
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Well, it is true confessions time - when I sealed my nodes I used latex gloves, while I was doing the thrid string my hand felt damp and I noticed that the top of one of the fingers had disintegrated and fell into the dip.
After I recovered from flashbacks to the Andromeda Strain I pressed forward sans gloves. The bad news is the stuff is darn hard to remove. However, there are several good points about this:
1) I can now work in my electrical box without grounding of any kind
2) After the residue started to peel - it is fun to go to your doctor, shake hands and tell him you think you've come down with a fungus.
Reading your post made my day!!! Excellent!! :)
:) joe
+10
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If you attach your nodes to para cord will I still need to do a sealing job on the nodes?
It was my understanding that if you had later version of the pixels and supported them on the para cord that further sealing was not really required.
I don't want to get halfway into the season and see pixels start to fail from water penetration.
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Hi All
A little update.
I decided to take 4 of my bad nodes apart to see whats going on.
It appears to me that the LED leads are rusting, specifically the cut end.
1 led i cracked the actual led and red doesn't work.
1 i took completely apart and cleaned with alcohol and it now works fine.
2 I removed as little as possible just near the LED leads, and cleaned with alcohol. They now work fine.
Looking at these things, I personally am starting to think moisture is getting in from the LED side more than the wire side. It just looks like water has much farther to go from the wire side, but I could be wrong.
Wanted to let people know this, because I am sure there was someone out there thinking about just sealing the wire side. (I initially thought that.) From what I see, that would possibly still allow moisture in the led side.
On another note, if you can just cut the material away from the led cut ends with a sharp razor, clean with alcohol and cover with un-thinned plasti dip. This process may actually be a bit faster than splicing the wires.
Unfortunately with my strings, even if I seal them, i am worried they will continue to rust and eventually i will have more nodes failing. Do they make LEDs with leads that won't rust??
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Pics
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Anybody with the new strands see anything differnent on the LED side to make a better seal?
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Thanks for the pictures. I had not bothered to do that. Very interesting.
Jim
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Looking at the photos you provided, it looks like the culprit could be flux residue. These residues, in the presence of moisture, can cause conductive paths to the point of creating a short. This could explain why cleaning with alcohol restored operation, since this will remove many types of flux. It is possible there is enough moisture coming in from the wire end to cause this kind of problem, although there is no way to know for sure. If this is the case, it is a manufacturing defect just as surely as not sealing the node is.
Skip
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Looking at the photos you provided, it looks like the culprit could be flux residue. These residues, in the presence of moisture, can cause conductive paths to the point of creating a short. This could explain why cleaning with alcohol restored operation, since this will remove many types of flux. It is possible there is enough moisture coming in from the wire end to cause this kind of problem, although there is no way to know for sure. If this is the case, it is a manufacturing defect just as surely as not sealing the node is.
Skip
I have always assumed it was flux because the water itself really should take a long time to cause permant issues like we get in some nodes. Rust on the traces and leads should not cause it to not work. I have been tempted to cut a couple totally open and flush one with alcohol and not the other and expose the open pcb to the weather to see the effects on operation. Would be an interesting experiment.
RJ
RJ
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I have the new LEDs, and am still a little worried that I should still go ahead and seal them. Can't be too safe... considering the investment. has anyone actually tested the new notes for their water tightness?
Richard
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I am going to run a test hopefully Sunday.
I have some pixels that may have a color out but still kind of function. I will place one in a cup of water and see how long it will function. Since my pixels are mounted on para cord for stress relief I will put no stress on the wires for this test. These were purchased about six weeks ago so they are from a newer production run.
I'll post the results.
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I anxiously sit biting my fingernails awaiting your results.....
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Pixel has been soaking for about 4 hours now and is still working. The wires have not been stressed because mine will not be stressed. Looking great to me.
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That is wonderful...
I will not seal the nodes that will make up my mega tree, as they too shouldn't be stressed as they will be attached to mono filament which will take the brunt of the stress away from them....
Thanks for the test
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RichardD: What is the brand name or part number of the mono-filiment that you are using for your mega tree? I am really trying to come up with a good strong but light weight solution to this requirement. Jim W
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I appreciate the posts on sealing nodes, dehumidifying nodes, etc.
Am I correct in thinking that the Flexible strip nodes are water proof as manufactured as claimed in the product description?
"4m waterproof LED digital strip by tube (DC12V input),without controller,10pcs TM1809IC/m,30pcs 5050 RGB LED/m;DC12V input"
I am going to wait until next year for smart strings but I have angreat use for the flex strips.
Rbar
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Are you guy that are using plastidip using the UV resistant version? I would hate for the nodes to start to yellow or the protection start to deteriorate and peel off after a few seasons. However it looks like the UV version only comes in gallon or larger sizes which is a little bit more cash for something you are going to use only a few cups of. $10 vs $60 plus thinner. I'm sure this stuff will have a self life too correct?
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I noticed the same thing - the UV version seems to only be available in 1 gallon sized containers...
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That is what I bought. I did not want to take any chances. It costs a little more, but it was worth it (I hope). I had a lot of 128 node strings to do, so the gallon was no problem. Jim