DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: jem5136 on February 05, 2013,
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Hi all. I am going to convert most of my display to RGB this year, and I have been looking and searching about different systems for RGB lights. I have looked at all kinds and I I've really found are systems that work for everyone else, but there's something that won't work for me.
I've been thinking about using the Lynx Smart String system, but I don't know if they are the best, or just another system that I could use. What I am wanting is a system that is simple to use and that doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
So basically what I am asking is which system should I us and something that just simply works? As of right now I am using LOR S3 and then I'll run my regular controllers as DMX controllers to run with that system if I have to; or I'll use xLights to run the controllers.
What does everyone have to say? I am just looking into new controllers and new options for the show.
Thanks everyone!!
Jesse
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Most of us on this forum use RJ's Smart String system. So we are biased towards that system. If you need to place items in many different parts of your yard and house the Smart String system is awesome because you can place a Smart String Controller (SSC) 100 feet or more from the hub. If you only have items that are right next to each other (Megatree, Matrix etc) you may like the systems from J1sys or SandDevices.
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"Best" is subjective.
Selecting a system that uses or incorporates open standards is important to me, it allows me to mix and match various pieces from various sources. Therefore, DMX is a starting point... it allows me to incorporate LOR equipment, bubblers and fog machines, and products that are available from DLA and other DIY groups.
DMX is also limited when you are considering huge channel counts... so a solution like pixelnet is great to fill that need. You don't worry as much about 512-channel DMX boundaries for your devices, instead you have 4096 contiguous channels to work with.
If you mix networks, then consider how they will come together. The DLA kits allow DMX to be obtained from pixelnet -- that is great because it allows you to run one cable to a corner of your yard and do dumb strings, and stars, and arches that use pixelnet and DMX as you need. But there are also other solutions to this problem... xLights can communicate to different networks back at the computer that drives your show... so you could do LOR, and Pixelnet, and a few other options in this way too.
My configuration?
Software: LSP 2.x for sequencing my show. It does RGB, high pixel counts, transitions, video, and many more features.
Software: Nutcracker for creating visualizations of mega pixel trees, but it is getting ready to support many more pixel-based light elments.
Networking: pixelnet and DMX throughout my display
Hardware: DLA Etherdongle from my computer... but I will likely move to the DLA Conductor this year in order to be computer-free!
Lighting elements:
3-channel Ray Wu controllers for standalone RGB elements
16-channel DLA MR16 and 27-channel Ray Wu controllers for scary eyes or candy canes
DLA SSCs to control megapixel trees, CoroFlakes, arches, and strips
DLA Lynx Expresses to control LED lights for arches
DLA Aether2 floods for illuminating the house
Cost for a DLA system? 1/4 of a comparable LOR system is my estimate
Cost for Ray Wu DMX stuff? comparable to DLA when shipping is considered.
Something to consider... I sold 8 LOR used controllers for about the same price I purchased them for... and I was able to fund the purchase of 12 replacement 110v controllers and lots of other RGB stuff too.
Good luck.
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I use LOR S3 and have also used xlights ... either should work for you.
This year, I had a mix of LOR controllers (used the LOR USB dongle) and Lynx controllers (DMX) and Lynx Smart Strings ... running via. pixelnet. I also have a few things from holidaycoro which are straight DMX controllers. I also had a large portion of my display run via. Lynx wireless DMX and it was flawless and reliable.
You can also do more types of hardware and mix them if you want ... use an old DMX dongle, the LOR dongle, whatever ... provided its supported by say LOR or xlights. xlights supports almost everything that I've ever wanted to do, even more than LOR I think.
Maybe you could tell us what the other systems won't do specifically.
One thing that is really different here ... is that RJ intentionally tries to keep this solutions and discussions less technical on purpose ...
so that it would be more approachable to a wider audience.
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Decided what you want. See if it fits what you wish to do.
The biggest thing you will find at DLA is help. Lots of help.
You can't buy the kind of help you will get here.
No matter were you go to buy your stuff you will have problems that will be challenges.
There are a lot knowledgeable people here at DLA.
To get help here it's best to use the DLA stuff.
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Most of us on this forum use RJ's Smart String system. So we are biased towards that system. If you need to place items in many different parts of your yard and house the Smart String system is awesome because you can place a Smart String Controller (SSC) 100 feet or more from the hub. If you only have items that are right next to each other (Megatree, Matrix etc) you may like the systems from J1sys or SandDevices.
There are three systems
1) Sandevices e682
2) J1sys ecg-p12r
3) Pixelnet
My entire show was pixelnet. The prices between would be about the same if we drove our strings without SSC's. Our $SSC's are $10, their driver/receivers are $20. Pixelnet can drive 300' from hub to string. The others are 10-20'. They do offer the ability to NOT have a receiver for say your megatree. This single factor does make them somewhat cheaper on a per pixel basis.
The p12r has 12 universes on 12 strings
pixelnet has 16 strings for 8 universes.
I really like having more strings. I can use 3 for these arches, 3 for those. with p12r, yes you can have 170 pixels per string but to do my arches i would have to
a) add power injection
b) had extensions between strings
The biggest reason i use Pixelnet and RJ's stuff is this forum. It is the most friendly, helpful of any. I should know, as I regularly post on 8 forums almost every day.
I am just amazed how people are able to solve assembly problems with just a picture of your boards.
I have 24 universes and 12,100 channels this last year. I will be going to near 16K channels this year.
So because of
a) No power injection
b) it works
3) Support group is the best of all forums
4) My elements can be up to 300' away
I am again expanding using Pixelnet this year.
thanks
sean
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Well said Sean :)
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First of all, I wanted to say why I posted this... I just want to weigh out my options before I spend a bunch of time and money on something that may or may not work!!
So, I have been wanting everyone to post what they are using and their opinions about what they're using. As of right now, I have been using a single SS just to play with it and see what it does, so far it's a good match, but I would rather have something that's a little bit easier to work with because I might be moving my display to a local area either this year or sometime in the future, which I wouldn't be able to use any of RG's items (which would suck!!!)
Now for replies; I am going to be using LOR S3 to do all of my sequencing and I'd really like it if I could use LOR to run my show but it's not a problem if it's won't be able to. I do use LSP to do some of the sequencing for RGB items, which I have done in the past, but I don't think i like it enough to have it sequence and run my entire show.
For the hardware, as of right now I am mostly going to use DC controllers to run my Rainbow Floods, and then pretty much the rest of the display is going to have some kinds of pixels. What I would really like is to have something that would be able to work in a local area (for future use), and to have something that isn't completely expensive. I have an E1.31 right now to run the SS that I have, and so far everything is working (but I haven't had it that long). I still haven't tested the lights from the stand point of actually controlling them like I would in a display, which is what really matters to me.
Also, I have looked at a couple other options to see what all there is, and there's a few options that I like, but I'd have to get more opinions on those items before I take them into the display.
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what do you mean by "would be able to work in a local area"?
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First of all, I wanted to say why I posted this... I just want to weigh out my options before I spend a bunch of time and money on something that may or may not work!!
So, I have been wanting everyone to post what they are using and their opinions about what they're using. As of right now, I have been using a single SS just to play with it and see what it does, so far it's a good match, but I would rather have something that's a little bit easier to work with because I might be moving my display to a local area either this year or sometime in the future, which I wouldn't be able to use any of RG's items (which would suck!!!)
Now for replies; I am going to be using LOR S3 to do all of my sequencing and I'd really like it if I could use LOR to run my show but it's not a problem if it's won't be able to. I do use LSP to do some of the sequencing for RGB items, which I have done in the past, but I don't think i like it enough to have it sequence and run my entire show.
For the hardware, as of right now I am mostly going to use DC controllers to run my Rainbow Floods, and then pretty much the rest of the display is going to have some kinds of pixels. What I would really like is to have something that would be able to work in a local area (for future use), and to have something that isn't completely expensive. I have an E1.31 right now to run the SS that I have, and so far everything is working (but I haven't had it that long). I still haven't tested the lights from the stand point of actually controlling them like I would in a display, which is what really matters to me.
Also, I have looked at a couple other options to see what all there is, and there's a few options that I like, but I'd have to get more opinions on those items before I take them into the display.
One thing we tend to overlook is the dongle. If you use LOR, or DMX you have a limited number of pixels you can run. I recall for LOR that they suggested a max of (4) CCRs per network (that was 50 pixels each -- but 3 LEDs per pixel) You'd need a dongle for every 4. For DMX, you will get 170 pixels for your USB dongles. Don't forget to calculate the wiring, the dongles, and the extra USB ports that are used in your chosen setup.
BTW... Lynx smart string have a single EtherDongle for the equivalent of 32 universes... or 5460 pixels.
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First of all, I wanted to say why I posted this... I just want to weigh out my options before I spend a bunch of time and money on something that may or may not work!!
So, I have been wanting everyone to post what they are using and their opinions about what they're using. As of right now, I have been using a single SS just to play with it and see what it does, so far it's a good match, but I would rather have something that's a little bit easier to work with because I might be moving my display to a local area either this year or sometime in the future, which I wouldn't be able to use any of RG's items (which would suck!!!)
Now for replies; I am going to be using LOR S3 to do all of my sequencing and I'd really like it if I could use LOR to run my show but it's not a problem if it's won't be able to. I do use LSP to do some of the sequencing for RGB items, which I have done in the past, but I don't think i like it enough to have it sequence and run my entire show.
For the hardware, as of right now I am mostly going to use DC controllers to run my Rainbow Floods, and then pretty much the rest of the display is going to have some kinds of pixels. What I would really like is to have something that would be able to work in a local area (for future use), and to have something that isn't completely expensive. I have an E1.31 right now to run the SS that I have, and so far everything is working (but I haven't had it that long). I still haven't tested the lights from the stand point of actually controlling them like I would in a display, which is what really matters to me.
Also, I have looked at a couple other options to see what all there is, and there's a few options that I like, but I'd have to get more opinions on those items before I take them into the display.
One thing we tend to overlook is the dongle. If you use LOR, or DMX you have a limited number of pixels you can run. I recall for LOR that they suggested a max of (4) CCRs per network (that was 50 pixels each -- but 3 LEDs per pixel) You'd need a dongle for every 4. For DMX, you will get 170 pixels for your USB dongles. Don't forget to calculate the wiring, the dongles, and the extra USB ports that are used in your chosen setup.
BTW... Lynx smart string have a single EtherDongle for the equivalent of 32 universes... or 5460 pixels.
Steve, for comparison.
32 universes
DLA
1 Etherdongle, (4) 16 port passive hubs. $94 + 4x$42 (last years prices) = $262. Now you need to get SSC's. Assume you try to maximize using 128 node strings. Then you only need 11 ports from each hub. figure $110 for 11 SSC's per hubs times 4. = $440. Total cost $262 + $440 = $702.
Notice our SSC's nearly triple the cost of the electronics as you add lots of pixels.
You would have 64 ports to drive strings
San Devices E682
1 etherswitch ($50) , (4) E682s ($180 assembled) = $770.
Each string needs to be close, these outputs are not rs485. They do not have DMX.
You would have 64 ports to drive strings
J1sys ecg-p12r
1 etherswitch ($50) , (3) E682s ($180 assembled) = $590.
Each string needs to be close, these outputs are not rs485. They do offer a driver and receiver for $20 per string. If you put drivers on all 36 ports you would add another $720 to cost.
They do not have DMX.
This system will needs lots of power injection since they are driving 170 pixels per port. Those extra power supplies probably add $100-200 more
36 ports to drive 36 universes.
If there was a way (there isn't) to not need the SSC's, our setup would be the cheapest by far. e682 and p12r just connect their strings directly to their cards.
E682 and j1sys do not have a DSC. This is another advantage of our Pixelnet setup.
Like i said before, Pixelnet works. It is what i will be using again. I also like having more ports. It helps when i want to have one line going to this eave, another to this arch.
thanks
sean
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I said I would like something that can work in a local area because I might be moving my display to my church this year, and that is a completely different argument.
Also, I've looked at different supplies and I'm reading up on them, but anything would work for what I am trying to do. Right now (if my display stays where it's at) I'll have nodes around the windows, roof lines, along the outside of the house, the arches, poles, and mega tree. All of this stuff would make it easier to have nodes for, but I am just trying to weigh out what all there is.
Also, I've read a little bit about what all I have, but haven't read a bunch of stuff. I do know that at least the other two can be used at a church, where as nothing made by RJ can be used in a local area because of the warranty.
P.S. If I had a choice, I'd probably use the SS strings, but because I will probably end up moving my display, they are not necessary an option anymore.
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I said I would like something that can work in a local area because I might be moving my display to my church this year, and that is a completely different argument.
Also, I've looked at different supplies and I'm reading up on them, but anything would work for what I am trying to do. Right now (if my display stays where it's at) I'll have nodes around the windows, roof lines, along the outside of the house, the arches, poles, and mega tree. All of this stuff would make it easier to have nodes for, but I am just trying to weigh out what all there is.
Also, I've read a little bit about what all I have, but haven't read a bunch of stuff. I do know that at least the other two can be used at a church, where as nothing made by RJ can be used in a local area because of the warranty.
P.S. If I had a choice, I'd probably use the SS strings, but because I will probably end up moving my display, they are not necessary an option anymore.
Yes RJ's stuff is for private use only. I think liability is the term you are looking for. Not warranty. This protects RJ in case there is any type of mishap.
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Yes RJ's stuff is for private use only. I think liability is the term you are looking for. Not warranty. This protects RJ in case there is any type of mishap.
Just to be clear, anything that is assembled by the user is not granted a "warranty". If the vendor does the assembly for you, they MAY provide that assurance, but then again -- you'd need to inquire.
RJ may be the only one that is up front about that issue.
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Yes RJ's stuff is for private use only. I think liability is the term you are looking for. Not warranty. This protects RJ in case there is any type of mishap.
Just to be clear, anything that is assembled by the user is not granted a "warranty". If the vendor does the assembly for you, they MAY provide that assurance, but then again -- you'd need to inquire.
RJ may be the only one that is up front about that issue.
I've wondered before if its possible for a licensed electrician to inspect and certify a device for public use. Essentially, taking on the responsibility of that installation. I imagine there are a lot of custom installations of various devices created for a public setting, and not all are approved by UL.
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Steve, for comparison.
32 universes
DLA
1 Etherdongle, (4) 16 port passive hubs. $94 + 4x$42 (last years prices) = $262. Now you need to get SSC's. Assume you try to maximize using 128 node strings. Then you only need 11 ports from each hub. figure $110 for 11 SSC's per hubs times 4. = $440. Total cost $262 + $440 = $702.
Notice our SSC's nearly triple the cost of the electronics as you add lots of pixels.
You would have 64 ports to drive strings
San Devices E682
1 etherswitch ($50) , (4) E682s ($180 assembled) = $770.
Each string needs to be close, these outputs are not rs485. They do not have DMX.
You would have 64 ports to drive strings
J1sys ecg-p12r
1 etherswitch ($50) , (3) E682s ($180 assembled) = $590.
Each string needs to be close, these outputs are not rs485. They do offer a driver and receiver for $20 per string. If you put drivers on all 36 ports you would add another $720 to cost.
They do not have DMX.
This system will needs lots of power injection since they are driving 170 pixels per port. Those extra power supplies probably add $100-200 more
36 ports to drive 36 universes.
If there was a way (there isn't) to not need the SSC's, our setup would be the cheapest by far. e682 and p12r just connect their strings directly to their cards.
E682 and j1sys do not have a DSC. This is another advantage of our Pixelnet setup.
Like i said before, Pixelnet works. It is what i will be using again. I also like having more ports. It helps when i want to have one line going to this eave, another to this arch.
thanks
sean
The SmartString system is not assembled so to compare apples with apples you need to choose none assembled controllers from other systems when you can. J1sys controllers do not come in kit form but E682 does.
So ...
San Devices E682
1 etherswitch ($50) , (4) E682s ($109 not assembled) = $486.
Each string needs to be close, these outputs are not rs485. They do not have DMX.
You would have 64 ports to drive strings
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That's one of the reasons why I didn't want to mansion the warranty, it's in my past for now. Anyway, I've thought about getting whatever I can unassempled so I can put it together lol
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it would be hard to find a licensed electrician that would want to take on that kind of liability.
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I am sticking with RJ's gear due to the great design and support of everyone here, but wanted to mention that Minleon the owners of LSP are now in the rgb game. I don't see that they are officially released but the winners of their lighting contest some of these and I think they will be the first to try them. The contest gave somethings but what caught my eye was a single controller and mp3 player capable of 12,600 channels. Something to consider if going non-diy.
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It is called UL certification and it costs a boatload of money and a lot of time to make that happen. It is not for the DIY to even think about.
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This is why I wasn't going to post this on here because I know most people here use the SS strings and it seems like every time I try to post something on here it terns into something that doesn't have to do with what deal with. With that being said, I think everyone knows that I can't use the SS strings, or any of RGs gear, on a church; who cares about what it's official name and what it's technically saying. I'm just trying to find out about different systems that would work for my situation. If everyone has to keep going on about the "warranty" or whatever you want to call it, start your own thread because that's not what this thread is about.
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Sorry I just wanted it to be clear to new members who might read this thread that there is a reason that RJ does not allow his designed equipment to be used in non private installations. Sorry if my post offended you. That was not my intention.
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I've wondered before if its possible for a licensed electrician to inspect and certify a device for public use. Essentially, taking on the responsibility of that installation. I imagine there are a lot of custom installations of various devices created for a public setting, and not all are approved by UL.
Actually you would have to get an electrical inspector to sign off on an installation (of other than Lynx equipment)for a public display. Most electrical inspectors want to see a UL sticker before they will OK any equipment just because of the liability issue it depends a lot on the city and there policy. Having helped someone who ran a professional haunted attraction talk to the electrical inspector, the inspectors biggest concern was public safety which when we demonstrated that he OKed the attraction.
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Understand some thing unless you play it safe.
And go with nothing unique, bold, different, creative or inspirational.
No matter what system you pick you will have problems to solve.
These people at DLA enjoy helping out.