Author Topic: Etherdongle  (Read 1657 times)

Offline MAnthony

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Etherdongle
« on: September 16, 2013, »
OK... so took 3 days and watched all the videos I could find.  I researched BOMs thru DLA vs other suppliers (DLA won hands down).  I schemed out what I want to try and have before xmas 2014.  its very simple, but its a start.  I made the mistake of listing the necessary ingredients on an excel sheet.  Holy High End Batman!  But when I pulled my body back up off the floor from the sticker shock seizure, I broke it out into 12 months and I think I can handle.  My budget is $80.23 a month. (that extra .23    that's the deal maker/breaker there, heh)  But now I am left with sooooo many directional questions that I am hoping someone can help with:

I want to start out small, but with single line towards expandability.  I don't have a lot of extra green floating around so I want to do it right the first time.  I know I want to go with RGB 12v.  I'm starting with a megatree, a star which I can fabricate and populate with the diodes, and 4 arches for the front.  Here's the questions:

Etherdongle - no coops, and not in store stock.  Where do I find one?

Hub - Is it better to get the LE or the passive 16 port hub? (I'm still not clear as to the pros/cons of each.  RJ uses the 16 port in his vids, but everyone likes the LE)  please advise.

Light strings - the site listed on the DLA equipment page is kinda out of my price range.. heh, heh...  :-[  It will cost over $500 just for the lights if I get them there.  Is there anywhere I might save some franklins?  I would even be willing to entertain the thought of getting the diodes and stringing them myself, if its cost effective.  It's not like I wont have enough time in the next 15 months.

It's awkward not knowing where to start.  Sorry for the epic post, but i'm hoping to get this started in the right direction.
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Offline thestig

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, »
Welcome to DLA. I will try and answer a few questions for you.

You missed the etherdongle COOP and as of right now need to keep a lookout in the for sale section. The LE and the 16port hub are two completely different animals. The LE is a 16 channel controller that runs off dmx. It is not 12v and is made for your normal off the shelve LED and Incandescent lights. The 16 port hub is 12v and is made for RGB LED dumb/smart strings. It has 16 ports that can handle up to 128 channels per port.

As far as cost, RGB does have a sticker shock, However after factoring in having to buy multiple strings of each color, and multiple LE's to control them you will soon find that they are not that pricey in the end.

You can find other sources for the RGB lights, However we deal with Ray alot here on the forum and can vouch for his products and quality. The products listed on the WIKI are guaranteed to work with the DLA smart string setup.

Goodluck and I think you have already realized just how expensive and addicting this hobby can be.

Grant
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, by thestig »

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2013, »
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OK... so took 3 days and watched all the videos I could find.  I researched BOMs thru DLA vs other suppliers (DLA won hands down).  I schemed out what I want to try and have before xmas 2014.  its very simple, but its a start.  I made the mistake of listing the necessary ingredients on an excel sheet.  Holy High End Batman!  But when I pulled my body back up off the floor from the sticker shock seizure, I broke it out into 12 months and I think I can handle.  My budget is $80.23 a month. (that extra .23    that's the deal maker/breaker there, heh)  But now I am left with sooooo many directional questions that I am hoping someone can help with:

I want to start out small, but with single line towards expandability.  I don't have a lot of extra green floating around so I want to do it right the first time.  I know I want to go with RGB 12v.  I'm starting with a megatree, a star which I can fabricate and populate with the diodes, and 4 arches for the front.  Here's the questions:

Etherdongle - no coops, and not in store stock.  Where do I find one?

Hub - Is it better to get the LE or the passive 16 port hub? (I'm still not clear as to the pros/cons of each.  RJ uses the 16 port in his vids, but everyone likes the LE)  please advise.

Light strings - the site listed on the DLA equipment page is kinda out of my price range.. heh, heh...  :-[  It will cost over $500 just for the lights if I get them there.  Is there anywhere I might save some franklins?  I would even be willing to entertain the thought of getting the diodes and stringing them myself, if its cost effective.  It's not like I wont have enough time in the next 15 months.

It's awkward not knowing where to start.  Sorry for the epic post, but i'm hoping to get this started in the right direction.


Is a mega tree ALL you are going for now? 
Are you trying to pack in the BIGGEST tree you can for the minimal up front cost?
Are individually-controlled pixels important to you? ... or would RGB string-level control be ok?


Nearly all of the solutions are expandable, so the question becomes whether you want to pack a lot of lights into a small investment now -- or save room (more channels) for other things like arches, etc.


Let's say you want a string-level control.  In that case you might go with dumb strings.  If you later wanted to go pixel-level control you'd be painted into a corner -- but even in that case you could move your  dumb strings to another part of your display and invest in smart strings next year.


Dumb string option:
You can buy 5 meters of RGB flex ribbons for $16.50.  You can cut these into smaller pieces, and join pieces.  I have gotten a deal on 20 5M strings and made 33 10' tubes from the pieces.


You should consider how you hang the strings or ribbons -- the extra costs for paracord, packing straps, polymesh, or PVC pipe adds to the cost...  My dumb string megatree is using 10' 1/2" PEX tubing, each piece of PEX is translucent enough to pass through a nice level of light, and each piece costs $3.


So far, this costs 10x 5M strings for $165, and 16x 10' PEX for $48, or $213.  You need controllers, then...  for dumb string for this 16-tube tree you'd need 3x16 or 48 channels.  A MR-16 controller can be used and you'd require 3 of them...  maybe $60 or less each...  another $180.  You'd only need a DMX dongle to drive these controllers...  maybe $60 for that. 


Don't forget power supplies, cat5 cable to connect the dongle to the first controller, and then small pieces to daisy-chain the other 2 controllers with the first. 
And, don't forget the "trunk" of the tree.  This could be an existing pole in the yard -- or maybe a 10' piece for 4" PVC.  And some ropes or cables to keep the tree from falling over.


This example is based on a 10' tree because the pieces of PVC (PEX) are easily available and transportable in a Prius. :)




Now, Let's say you want a pixel-based (smart string) tree...  I'd recommend RJ's new Zeus controller...  you can get high channel counts for a great price.    There is a Zeus coop finishing up soon... this can do a max of 16 strings, or  4096 channels -- which is 1365 pixels.  If you buy 100-pixel strings, then you'd be able to connect up to 13 strings.  With software the strings can folded and controlled as if they were separate strings....  so you could have 52 virtual strings of 25 pixels, or 26 strings of 50 pixels.


If you go with the best available water-proofed strings, the technicolor from Ray Wu, each 100-pixel string costs (with shipping) about $65, and stretches about 28'. 


To make strings go farther, consider a 180-degree or 270-degree tree.  You may find the extra cost of lighting the backside to not be worth the trouble.


With a single Zeus can go with a Etherdongle, but you can also use a USB dongle programmed with the pixelnet firmware.


So, the real challenge is nailing down what you want to do...  if you want to have a tall tree then you need to have something fairly strong to hold up the lights, and something like banding material or paracord to keep the strings tout to have a nice sharp look for the effects. 


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Offline tbone321

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, »
As Others have said, the LE is a 16 channel 120V AC controller and doesn't work with RGB nodes.  I would look into getting an Etherdongle during the next coop.  If your plans are to start in 2014, you have plenty of time for that.  You didn't say how you were going to construct your arches.  If you are going to use pixels, then you would need a Smart String Controller for each arch but if you are using standard LED strings, then you could use the LE.  If you made each arch 8 channel, then you could have 2 LE's controlling them. 

If you do go with SSC's, then you will need a hub.  There are two types of hub, the active and the passive hub.  Perhaps you confused the Active hub with the LE.  The active hub has the ability to generate 1 universe of DMX out of the PixelNet stream but if all you are using are RGB nodes, you don't need the active hub and can go with the passive hub which will save you a few bucks.  If your arches are standard LED or ICAN strings and Will be using an LE to control them, then you would need an active hub to provide DMX to the LE's.

If your first big item is a megatree, then you can go with the Zeus controller.  The advtage to that is that it combines the hub and SSC's into one unit, eliminating the need for 8 to 16 SSC's and the hub to connect them all in.  The coop for the Zeus has ended and it will be the only one for this year but like I said before, if your first display is next Christmas, that is not an issue.

One thing that I would start looking at now is the software that you intend to use.  There is LSP (light show pro), three different versions of Vixen, as well as others.  You have schedulers like X-Lights and awesome generation tools like Nutcracker that have a bit of a learning curve but can do fantastic things for your display.  And the great thing is that most of them can be played with and learned without a single controller or bulb.  They have what is called a visualizer that allows you to simulate and create your show on the PC and when you get the hardware, you have a show that is ready to go (with some added tweeking).  Just assign the controllers to the required channels and your off.
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Offline MAnthony

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2013, »
Sorry for the outburst at the cost of all this.  Now that I have semi successfully recomposed myself, I thank you for the advice.  Considering the alternatives, I thought I would start small (tree, star, and arches) and then work up from there.  You have excellent ideas that I never would have thought.  I will watch the buy/sell for the etherdongle, but for now will just get the dmx dongle.  i'm sure I can use it later as I grow and add after I get the etherdongle. 

for an 8 foot tree, I can use 1 128 string for every 2 legs.   that will save me 6 strings on the tree and 3 strings on the arches.... brilliant. 
270 deg instead of 360.  that saves me 4 legs on the tree .... again, brilliant.
pex tubing - keep the water out (Seattle, WA) and add strength to the string - nice.  Does it need something more rigid to tie to or can you just run the tubes to the top?

Happy Happy Happy - you just saved me almost $200!!!

I have the materials to fabricate the arches, tree, and star already, so those costs will for the most part be absorbed.

I added in the CAT5 and the 3 core ends.  hey, I should be able to afford wireless, maybe,... I dunno. sigh.... I'm hooked.

 I haven't gotten any software yet, but if I get to play with it before I get the hardware done, my wife may never see me again... lol I saw the dl's on the wiki and will prolly start tonight when I get home. (yes, I'm not working at work...)

thanks for the help!.. you guys rock.
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Offline Steve Gase

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2013, »
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Sorry for the outburst at the cost of all this.  Now that I have semi successfully recomposed myself, I thank you for the advice.  Considering the alternatives, I thought I would start small (tree, star, and arches) and then work up from there.  You have excellent ideas that I never would have thought.  I will watch the buy/sell for the etherdongle, but for now will just get the dmx dongle.  i'm sure I can use it later as I grow and add after I get the etherdongle. 

for an 8 foot tree, I can use 1 128 string for every 2 legs.   that will save me 6 strings on the tree and 3 strings on the arches.... brilliant. 
270 deg instead of 360.  that saves me 4 legs on the tree .... again, brilliant.
pex tubing - keep the water out (Seattle, WA) and add strength to the string - nice.  Does it need something more rigid to tie to or can you just run the tubes to the top?

Happy Happy Happy - you just saved me almost $200!!!

I have the materials to fabricate the arches, tree, and star already, so those costs will for the most part be absorbed.

I added in the CAT5 and the 3 core ends.  hey, I should be able to afford wireless, maybe,... I dunno. sigh.... I'm hooked.

 I haven't gotten any software yet, but if I get to play with it before I get the hardware done, my wife may never see me again... lol I saw the dl's on the wiki and will prolly start tonight when I get home. (yes, I'm not working at work...)

thanks for the help!.. you guys rock.
The 1/2" PEX is sorta "limp"... it bows inward easily. 
I used a 5-gallon pail that I placed a 10' 4" piece of PVC then pour in dry quickcrete and water.  at the top I place a toilet flange piece that I'm using as a crown.  The 1/2" PEX will attach to the crown with zip ties.   
as far as the "limpness" is concerned. I will use a small curved piece of pvc/pex midway down the tree that I zip tie the verticle pex to.
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Offline MAnthony

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2013, »
the flange is a good idea, with holes for "S" hooks.  It could also be modified to accommodate the star.  I wonder if short stiff springs at the bottom of the pex wouldn't offset the sag as well.  it would require a good anchor at the bottom.  the pex would then act as the support cabling.  Or maybe run the cabling down thru every other pex along with the string. 

I find myself faced with the dilemma of my overwhelming imagination as to what can be accomplished with sequencing (not just lights, but servos, spotlighted movement items, projected screen apportioning,  and yes - even fireworks), against my time and fiscal limitations.  A struggle I'm sure everyone else feels.

I was watching RJ's video on wireless.... Hopefully, by the time I need it and can afford it, we will have access to an fm booster/repeater.  I want my entire street in on this..... both sides!
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Offline PJNMCT

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2013, »
Hate to add a bit of cold water but the user agreement for the use of RJs equipment does not allow for fireworks.

-Paul
Leesburg, FL

Offline jnealand

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, »
And wireless only works on DMX devices, like LEs, SSR4, MR16s, etc  No wireless with pixelnet except for communication between conductor and slave so far.
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA

Offline MAnthony

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, »
Ratz!!  Are confetti launchers legal?  rocket launchers?  trebuchet anyone?... just kidding. heh. (maybe)


If you say you can't, you never will,
If you say you can, you already have.

Sign hanging above my office door 'don't bother coming in, you already annoy me'

Offline typoagain

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Re: Etherdongle
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2013, »
In my opinion, fireworks are overated in displays anyway. (and I have family in the firewoks biz!)
every time you run through the show you have to reset them.
That takes a lot of time and money.
For me half the fun is sitting off to one side watching people watching the show.
One of the new guys in Odessa TX.