DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: zwiller on March 19, 2013,
-
Anyone string any live trees with nodes? Smart or dumb. Looking for pics, vids, advice or suggestions.
Thinking/hoping to go all rgb this year and almost all of it figured out except my live trees. I would prefer to go dumb on these. I wonder how well rgb works on them and if I can do it for a reasonable cost and not having to double/triple up controllers on each tree for large node counts.
The trees in question are the four near the house. http://vimeo.com/56626870 (http://vimeo.com/56626870) If you look well the larger tree on right is c7's and the rest are strung with minis. Contemplating using some of the newer 2811 c9's on 12" centers over at diyledexpress for the big guy using ssc set to hybrid mode/dumb.
Thoughts? Thanks in advance.
-
I saw this video of making giant sparkle balls to hang in trees
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVptxkVU2t8
What i found interesting is how they got them up into the trees. Look at 3:43 in the video they use a potatoe gun but with half of a lime. They shoot them up 50 to 75' trailing rope behind them.
I may have to make some air canons.
sean
-
Interesting vid. I guess I am lucky my trees aren't that big. But I can see the air canon being handy for that... ;D
-
It would be nice if you could put a few of the strings in one line.
Lets say instead of using one four port hub for power and data having a separate line that drops off
the date and power to each smart string.
This would give you options for lets say the roof line.
And if you wanted to use a port I could see advantages that way to.
-
Not sure what you're getting at but I am looking for more of a rule of thumb that X nodes = Y minis. I suspect that 20/30 nodes are closer to 100ct minis in terms of output.
-
Not sure what you're getting at but I am looking for more of a rule of thumb that X nodes = Y minis. I suspect that 20/30 nodes are closer to 100ct minis in terms of output.
As far as brightness you are probably close, but imho you cannot reach the saturation of having 500 nodes vs 2,000 minis. Don't get me wrong I am going more and more nodes, but I still love the looks of high number count minis (led of course ;) ).
-
Good point Roger. Willing to offer some criticism on a new element? 2d rgb mini 18" tall with (20) 5050 dumb leds. Not saturated but plenty bright. I think my past mini trees were too powerful.
-
Sam I think that looks very good. Great saturation of color. How are you liking those new nodes?
-
Looks good. I was talking about a high node count over 128 nodes.
If you used SSC you could set it up so you could make different
shapes appear inside the tree shape.
Like bells or star shapes.
-
Thanks guys. These are the leds on the mini: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/RGB-5050LED-Module-1pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-DC12V-input/701799_518243139.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/RGB-5050LED-Module-1pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-DC12V-input/701799_518243139.html) I LOVE them. The mock up is just cardboard, but will probably use ply or coro for the real deal. The beauty of them is all you do is add a dab of hot glue to mount and you’re done! Although it's dumb, it's a $10 rgb mini. I am concerned the new square smart nodes I have may get overpowered by all the 5050 gear I will have. I estimate the 5050 to be at least 2x brighter than nodes but it’s a directionality thing.
Once it gets warmer/drier I will test some dumb nodes on my live trees. My concern is that it will get more complex than I want. IE - Need 2/3 controllers per tree since I will need most likely 200/300 nodes or more per tree.
-
If you used a 4 port passive hub, it would still only be 1 cat5 and 1 power line per tree.
Brian
-
Good point. That way I could have duplicate dsc's on same channels. I was thinking more using MR16 or Rays 27 channel and having to get creative in LSP. Either way, until I string some nodes in a tree I am in the dark. Hard to believe rgb nodes will be that much more cheaper than led stands.
-
I was thinking more using MR16 or Rays 27 channel and having to get creative in LSP.
Sam,
How would you use the MR16 for the dumb RGB nodes? The MR16 switches (+) and the nodes need (-) correct? I know this has been discussed in the past and was wondering if I missed something or if I am bass-ackwards!!
Thanks,
-
Mark,
Got me worried there for a minute since this is my first venture into dumb gear. :o That said, controllers and nodes are common anode or (-) switching. In fact, I think ALL blinky gear is that way for safety. Nice writeup here: http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=8483.0 (http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=8483.0)
-
Mark,
Got me worried there for a minute since this is my first venture into dumb gear. :o That said, controllers and nodes are common anode or (-) switching. In fact, I think ALL blinky gear is that way for safety. Nice writeup here: http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=8483.0 (http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=8483.0)
Yup, your right. I'm thinking the same way you are. I have 22 mini trees I'm changeing over to dumb rgbs(100 node each) and I'm more leaning towards ray's 27 dmx rather than the mr 16. It leaves a wireing issue leaveing only 1 channel left per controller. I would need 5 mr16s to cover it. Still up in the air for me.
animal
-
Yeah guys, bass-ackwards!! I knew there was a whole thread on this last year and I guess I was still not right :P
tbone321 posted this: To make it simple, the MR16 is negative switched so you can connect your positive to any of the positive leads since they are all always on. Then connect your negative leads to the negative of the channels on the MR16 that want to use to control the string.
I will commit this to memory and not try to add to any confusion moving forward!! Thanks for not chastising me <res.
-
Sure am glad this came up, Gives me a whole new outlook on a couple of projects I was holding till later!! Funny how that works.
Happy Easter Guys!!
-
One observation. I am switching my 16 mini trees from incans to LEDs. I considered RGB smart or dumb, but what made me stick with standard LEDs is that we like the look of having multiple colors on at the same time. True that you can get any color with RGB, but with dumb strings they are all the same color unless you go to multiple strings and therefore multiple controllers. If you go to smart strings you can get multiple colors interspersed in different spots around the tree with a lot of complex programming, but still does not look the same as having both red and green on together or green and white, etc. Just my 2 cents to muddy the water.
-
, but still does not look the same as having both red and green on together or green and white, etc. Just my 2 cents to muddy the water.
I totally agree Jim! I am moving slowly to everything RGB because you can do so much with it, but as my earlier post I love the multiple LED look!
-
No argument rgb smart or dumb are not a one size fits all solution over strings but I think it is a great value. One thing I will miss with dumb gear is the twinkle effect of smart gear but I think my minis are more of an accent element so I can live with it. Not sure if it is worth 800+ channels dedicated to my minis.
One thing I am researching at this point is although the MR16 has less channels than Ray's 27, it handles more amps. The MR16 is 35A, Ray's 27 is 27A. That said, 35A over 16 channels is 2.2A per channels where Rays is only 1A per channel. That's more than 2x more amps. I need to confirm this but it appears that I could run well over 200 dumb modules over 3 channels rgb on the MR16 assuming a proper power supply. There is a mod to increase amperage of Rays board but I would rather not go that direction.
MR 16 3(2.2A * 12V) / .3W = 264
Ray 27 3(1A * 12V) / .3W = 120
-
I will say I do like the flexability of smart strings. One of the effects I do alot is all on with every other node set to red,green, white, then repeat. (my wife doesn't like blue for Xmas ;)) This is easily done with LSP, but with the increase in channel count, with me I can't justify it, so I'm going to try dumb strings on my mini trees with an extra string of solid white. Now there will be 4 channels. Red, green, blue, white. I'll just have to alternate every other tree (red, and green, I'll have the white already per tree) for the all on effect. Maybe this will give a little more flexability.
animal
-
Adding a dumb white string is a good idea for that look and less expensive than 2 rgb strings or 4 led strings. I am just happy to be getting away from single color incan mini trees.
-
Just updating for a recent find. Looks like Ray is getting it down... http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DC12V-input-12mm-through-hole-LED-channel-letter-00pcs-a-string-with-green-wire/701799_686996566.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/DC12V-input-12mm-through-hole-LED-channel-letter-00pcs-a-string-with-green-wire/701799_686996566.html)
He has white and black too. I saw some smart ones too but looked like mostly 5V 2811.
-
On your big tree, I'd go with the C9 covers over the dumb strings. Ray sells them separate, but I bet you could order some dumb strings with the covers already on them. It doesn't look like that tree is saturated, so you're probably going to want close to the same number of lights or it's going to look sparse. The tree on the left and second to the right look like they have a lot, so you can definitely get by with less dumb nodes. The tree second to the left, you can get by with slightly less than you currently have on it.
The black, white, and green wire looks great, but what about wiring? You have to be very careful. Even with color coded wires, I still managed to mis-wire a couple strings. Have to pay a lot more attention if they're all the same color. Although the wire looks like a circus nearby, I didn't find it that visible. Not sure which I'm going with this year.
-
Thanks davron12. You are confirming my suspicion that the conversion of these elements will be more expensive and complex than I hoped. Your assessment is almost spot on to my guesstimate, albeit worst case. ;D
One thing I plan to do on the big boy on the right is to string it 2d (not all the way around). This should help drive the node count down.
Totally agree that the multi color wires are not really visible and prefer to work with them. I am mainly concerned I get the new dumb nodes you got Ray to correct. Thanks for sorting that out.
-
I must say I watched your video, it is FANTASTIC! I see what you mean about the trees, and had to give you an inexpensive thought: The LED Christmas lights also do a nice job for something that needs to flash.
But I also do love all of the new smart pixels (a bit expensive, but cool) and also have been doing some experimenting with Disco lighting and thinking about lasers. :)
Pic enclosed of my place. :)
Cheers
Kip
-
Thanks for the kind words Kip. Nice setup. You're not afraid to string live trees that's for sure! Good job.
Lasers are generally off limits here since they are not worth the health risks and other issues but on the other hand there is talk here about members making portable led lit disco floors! ;D
-
Felt that I needed to post this. After doing the testing on various SSC functions for the V4 beta I've not used in the past (grouping, 3 channel, etc), and seeing how well they performed, I have decided to move away from dumb gear on most elements in favor of using smart gear with with advanced functions. After running some quick numbers I actually think the move will prove to be cheaper in the long run too. Dumb gear appears cheaper at the node level, but once you start getting into controllers, power supplies, and wire it doesn't compare well. Seems counter intuitive. Seriously, the grouping function is very slick and is really making me think outside the box. I am now thinking of stringing my live trees and making each 5 limbs a group. That would easily be 15 dumb channels (MR16+power supply, etc) and can be accomplished with 1-2 SSCs... Also, you could create a group of say 4 mini trees controlled by a SINGLE SSC!
-
Did a shoot out recently of 2d led mini trees. (20) 5050 leds vs (30) 12mm smart string nodes. 12mm on left and 5050 on right. Pictures are very subjective but I feel the 5050 is still a tad brighter in person. I am not really going for max brightness but overall bang for the buck. You'd think more lights equals better look but I am not sure. I really like the 5050 led.
Feel free to post your thoughts, but I don't think the additional lights really add much and think the 5050 tree looks darn good. Might not be as bright as 200 minis on a easel/tomato cage but should work just fine for my purposes.
-
well, the 8mm leds in the smart string nodes have a wider angle of coverage, and the 5050's are more focused, i can see why they appear brighter.
as you build your stuff, this is where you take in account for what you're trying to do. if you need it to be seen from many angles, then the nodes are the way to go.
If you're using a flat surface that will only be viewed from the front, then maybe 5050's are the way to go.
-
well, the 8mm leds in the smart string nodes have a wider angle of coverage, and the 5050's are more focused, i can see why they appear brighter.
as you build your stuff, this is where you take in account for what you're trying to do. if you need it to be seen from many angles, then the nodes are the way to go.
If you're using a flat surface that will only be viewed from the front, then maybe 5050's are the way to go.
Agreed. Maybe take a picture from every angle that can be seen where they will be and let that be your guide.