LE COOP thoughts

[DanHouston]

I know there have been some thoughts on how to change the way orders are taken in for coops to try and make sure more people get a chance at participating. I know people can always order from the store, and perhaps this idea has been covered and ruled out (did not see it, and wanted to throw it out)....


What if the coop worked in a round robin fashion across days. So the coop opens, people start posting how many they want (stick with the 6 limit per person seems reasonable), but you can only get 1 of what you ordered per day.

Consider a small scale example. Coop limited to 20 for purposes of illustration:


Coop opens on 3/22
User1 posts for 6 on 3/22
User2 posts for 1 on 3/22
User3 posts for 6 on 3/22
User4 posts for 1 on 3/23
User5 posts for 6 on 3/23
User6 posts for 2 on 3/23
User7 posts for 3 on 3/24
User8 posts for 2 on 3/24
User9 posts for 6 on 3/24
User10 posts for 2 on 3/25

With the current method User1, User2, User3, User4, and User5 would be the only ones to get LEs and take advantage of the price break from a coop.

With my proposed method everyone would get atleast 1:

User	3/22	3/23	3/24	3/25	3/26
User1	1	1	1	1	0
User2	1	-	-	-	-
User3	1	1	1	1	0
User4	-	1	-	-	-
User5	-	1	1	1	0
User6	-	1	1	-	-
User7	-	-	1	1	0
User8	-	-	1	1	-
User9	-	-	1	0	0
User10	-	-	-	0	0

With this approach users 1-9 would have been able to take advantage of the price break associated with a COOP. User10 still missed out, but they were 3 days late to posting in the forum....right now if you are not in there within a couple of hours you have no chance. This seems pretty easy, allows people to just post once (so they don't have to come back each day and ask for 1 more), and allows more people the opportunity to enjoy the price break....Everyone can still use the store for what they miss out on, but spreads that burden around more.

Maybe this would be too burdensome on a coop manager, it does not seem like it, but I have not run one yet so I can't speak from experience.

Just a thought.

[sjb]

With the site growing in numbers what about a limit of 2 or 3 units for the first 48 hours and then it can be opened up to 6in total.

Just a thought.

[dpitts]

First off. This thread is moot because we have heard time and time again that the coops will not change.

But lets say we use your idea. Most likely with the numbers of people we have here, every one would get one or two. Then they would need to enter more coops to get all the boards they need. Savings on coops would start to be used to pay for shipping costs for having to enter five coops to get five boards.

Coop managers have stated that there will be coops often to get everyone there boards. As time goes by there will be less demand and coops will last longer.

[sjb]

First off. This thread is moot because we have heard time and time again that the coops will not change.

But lets say we use your idea. Most likely with the numbers of people we have here, every one would get one or two. Then they would need to enter more coops to get all the boards they need. Savings on coops would start to be used to pay for shipping costs for having to enter five coops to get five boards.

Coop managers have stated that there will be coops often to get everyone there boards. As time goes by there will be less demand and coops will last longer.

great point on the shipping cost that I did not think of. Looking at the number of new members in the stats page it kind of shows why this keeps coming up. Do not get me wrong I believe everyone here, especially the COOP managers and RJ do a great job.

[Rod R]

I think the key here is that RJ and the Coop Managers are not doing things like the have been done in the past.  RJ has pretty much left it up to the managers to run the coops which gives him time and resources for development (Design and work with the beta testers).  More coop managers are now on board.  A new forum for the coop managers just so they can talk about how things are done and learn from each other.  I believe gone are the days of  the 300-400+ Express coops.  Why the reason is simple, because it was such a huge task to take on logistically, dealing with multiple vendors and back-ordered parts, getting members to pay on time, JJ taking on the huge task of sorting all the parts and tracking how many kits go to who and so on.  If you take a look DLA has had an Express Coop every month this year as apposed to a few last year.  As RJ and the coop managers have stated as long as there is an interest a coop will be ran.  He post up in the coop managers area when he is ready on his end and the coop managers ask about running coops.  There has been some delay in other coops as RJ is rolling out some new things,  he wants to be sure that everyone has access to the new stuff.  Instead of running a coop one month for something and then a coop for the new stuff the next month (i.e, smart string).  Only to have members say "Oh I would have preferred that option instead why didn't you tell us it was coming".  I think RJ has stated many times that he wanted to give everyone the most options as possible at the same time being able to keep it simple and easy to understand by all members.  Only the Beta testers and RJ know what is ready to go and when.  Believe me RJ had spoken to the coop managers about what is the best way to run a coop. Which is why he explored running coops in the store.  There is always a plus and a neg side to whatever way you decide to run a coop.  Someone is not going to be satisfied.  The easiest and non-complicated answer was to have smaller coops more often to allow more members access to them, which is happening.  When we are in the summer months things really slow down as far as people ordering kits.  It is just because of the excitement of last season and more members coming on makes getting your hands a little difficult right now.  RJ has addressed this question every time it comes up on the boards.  Be patient and you will get your hands on the equipment you need.  Till then hang in there.

[taybrynn]

This subject is beat to death every time there is a COOP.  There is NO magical solution, IMHO.

Anyways, one problem is that the casual member just doesn't watch close enough to participate or get in these.
Again, if you don't check your email a couple times a day or more, and the board daily ... then its doubtful you'll
get in on any of these.  And a casual member also is unlikely to be able to turn around and pay quickly also,
which would hold up the entire coop.

I've literally had a recent coop email go to my iphone and I pulled over ... looked up the coop, placed my order on the side of
the road, then continued on my way home.  Previously I didn't have email or internet on my cell phone, so I would have
missed out.  But in the past, I usually got in by checking email from home and logging in asap and getting in on the coop.
This isn't easy, but its also not like trying to get the free plasma on black friday ... its doable if your willing to watch closely.

If your really needing to get in on these and don't have the time to watch and respond quickly, then find a member
near you who does ... and have them order your stuff for you when they get their own.  That works pretty well ... and
increases your odds a lot and saves on shipping for both of you.  I have members in the area who watch for me and I'm watching for them ... and if I know
they need certain things, I'll add them to my order.  The same advise goes for ordering from Ray.

I think think thats the solution that works the best if you find your missing these time and time again.

[caretaker]

This subject is beat to death every time there is a COOP.  There is NO magical solution, IMHO.

I agree and would add there will always be those who miss out on the coop but that doesn't mean they can't still buy a board from "The Store" and then buy the parts from mouser.  Sure the price will be closer to $100 but that is still a bargain verse the cost of some other "kit" light controllers out there.  The thing to remember is that this is all volunteer and we want to keep is as simple as possible for those who graciously volunteer to run coops. 

[DanHouston]

Really was not looking for the negativity and did not remember seeing that coops would not change. The membership has grown here and saying things are not going to change seems a little silly. We now have a store which we did not have before. Finding a way to allow more people to be able to take advantage of the COOPS without having to do huge ones is all I was after.

I personally have gotten into coops when I needed to and usually things do cool down, but we have done our third one and it is still you better be watching in the first several hours or your not going to get it.

Everything evolves.

[dpitts]

Really was not looking for the negativity and did not remember seeing that coops would not change.

Dan if you were talking about my post. I was not trying to be negative. I even entertained your idea. But RJ did say they were not changing.

Please read this post. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It pretty much killed the last thread on the subject. 

[DanHouston]

Not yours in particular in terms of negativity....Did not see that post by RJ. I understand the issues he described there and agree with getting more managers (I've volunteered to be one, so we'll see how that goes). It just troubles me that with 100 kits available and the 2974 members that only 15 members got in.

[zwiller]

Have no fear, COOP sniping is here!  For the small price of $19.99 you can be assured to get in the next one.  All you have to do is paypal $19.99 to zwillerenterprises.com and let us know how many kits you want*.

*some restrictions apply, see store for details, offer void where prohibited, not affilated with diyla.com, without the "express" written consent of major league baseball, as it was in the beginning is now and ever shall world without end, Amen.

Sorry, it's been a long week...

[RJ]

Yes, I understand but short of hiring someone full time to sort and pack it is very hard to fill the request. If I do that I am just a LOR, it has become a business at that point.

There is so much more to it than everyone understands. This coop for example, the coop manager could have went a while ago but had to wait on parts to be avaliable.  We can not run 4 coops at a time or they deadlock each other on part backorders. This one has everything but that but that one took all of them. That kind of thing.

My feelings on it are this and I know they will ruffle feathers for some and I do not want everyone to think I am saying this about this thread I am saying this as a generalization,

Sometimes the ones that complian the most (send pms pissed off ect) are people that when I look at their profiles and check their post have never done one single thing on DLA but post to get into coops. Never helped anyone, never updated a wiki item, never updated a manual, never offered to run coops, donated to support the forum, Posted a helpful post, nothing.

They are the ones that use DLA as a cheaper than LOR place to buy stuff and would not care if it was DLA or called "EBAY" as long as they could get the controller kits cheap.

I do not expect nor ask anything from the members but to follow the rules and if you do that you are welcome so they are not required to do any of this.

But, who do you think I want the coops kits to go to?
So when people start posting that the coops should be run this way or that way two things come to my mind,
1 - We tried many ways before we got larger when people would say the same thing. It did not help and in some cases made it much worst. 
2 - What way will have the best chance to get the kits in the hands of those that deserve to get them?

When I am told we need to pre annouce a coop I laugh in my head. When we do then I see the largest percentage going to these people cause they can find time to show up for coop and take most of the kits just not anything else.

So if you are an active member you have a better chance of checking the board in time to catch a coop.

I thought about setting up a reward point system at one time to give points to people that help and let them use them to buy first rights to coop kits on coops.

I thought about turning off coop email notification and then only allowing people who help to get them.
 
So in short yes I want everyone to get kits, but if we can not fill the need I want those that do for DLA to be helped by DLA. Currently we do not have a way to do this. It currently is, first come first served. As everyone has said it calms down later in the early summer and the coops run much much longer, like days (use to be months a few years ago.   )

In the end remember if you think getting the controllers built is your issue, then you must not have started seqencing yet. Get on that and keep you eye to the coop section.  The controllers will at worst take 3 - 4 hours each to build if your new, you can't seqence but maybe a minute of music in that time if your good and the show is small. 

Keep the faith you'll get what you need before you run out of time.

Now lets not turn this thread into another long running one on how coops could be done better.

RJ




RJ

[jnealand]

I could have entered into every coop on this board this year, but I have most of the equipment that I need so I have not ordered anything other than the etherdongle this year.   I only post this to show that it is possible to get into a coop if you want to.  I log into DLA at least two or three times a day and read every thread on topics that interest me and I do get email notifications when new coops start.  Seems to me that it is time to stop griping and start getting online more often.  I am sure some of you find it hard to find time to be online more often, but that is the way to coop success.

[Timon]

I stand by my suggestion that we be alerted 24 hours before the coop opens and that orders placed in the first "N" hours by those that have not purchased in the previous "N" coops be given priority. The value of "N" would have to be decided.





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[urthegman]

 

Yes, I understand but short of hiring someone full time to sort and pack it is very hard to fill the request. If I do that I am just a LOR, it has become a business at that point.

There is so much more to it than everyone understands. This coop for example, the coop manager could have went a while ago but had to wait on parts to be avaliable.  We can not run 4 coops at a time or they deadlock each other on part backorders. This one has everything but that but that one took all of them. That kind of thing.

My feelings on it are this and I know they will ruffle feathers for some and I do not want everyone to think I am saying this about this thread I am saying this as a generalization,

Sometimes the ones that complian the most (send pms pissed off ect) are people that when I look at their profiles and check their post have never done one single thing on DLA but post to get into coops. Never helped anyone, never updated a wiki item, never updated a manual, never offered to run coops, donated to support the forum, Posted a helpful post, nothing.

They are the ones that use DLA as a cheaper than LOR place to buy stuff and would not care if it was DLA or called "EBAY" as long as they could get the controller kits cheap.

I do not expect nor ask anything from the members but to follow the rules and if you do that you are welcome so they are not required to do any of this.

But, who do you think I want the coops kits to go to?
So when people start posting that the coops should be run this way or that way two things come to my mind,
1 - We tried many ways before we got larger when people would say the same thing. It did not help and in some cases made it much worst. 
2 - What way will have the best chance to get the kits in the hands of those that deserve to get them?

When I am told we need to pre annouce a coop I laugh in my head. When we do then I see the largest percentage going to these people cause they can find time to show up for coop and take most of the kits just not anything else.

So if you are an active member you have a better chance of checking the board in time to catch a coop.

I thought about setting up a reward point system at one time to give points to people that help and let them use them to buy first rights to coop kits on coops.

I thought about turning off coop email notification and then only allowing people who help to get them.
 
So in short yes I want everyone to get kits, but if we can not fill the need I want those that do for DLA to be helped by DLA. Currently we do not have a way to do this. It currently is, first come first served. As everyone has said it calms down later in the early summer and the coops run much much longer, like days (use to be months a few years ago.   )

In the end remember if you think getting the controllers built is your issue, then you must not have started seqencing yet. Get on that and keep you eye to the coop section.  The controllers will at worst take 3 - 4 hours each to build if your new, you can't seqence but maybe a minute of music in that time if your good and the show is small. 

Keep the faith you'll get what you need before you run out of time.

Now lets not turn this thread into another long running one on how coops could be done better.

RJ




RJ