Author Topic: measuring amps.  (Read 2897 times)

Offline chrisatpsu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3729
  • ahhh, yes... my new blink-i-nator 3000!!!
measuring amps.
« on: April 16, 2012, »
how are you guys measuring the A or mA that a string of lights is using?

when i try to use my multimeter, i never get the result that i'm looking for. no where even close.
To rule the entire tri-state area!  What's that? Perry the Platypus!!!

Offline urthegman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 960
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, »
Kill-a-watt does it for me!

Offline shortguy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, »
Current clamp works for me... this way you don't have to actually put your multimeter in the circuit
If holiday decorating is wrong, I don't wanna be right!

Offline inzeos

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 505
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, »
You can make your own DIY current clamp as well.  However, don't have the link handy.

Offline chrisatpsu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3729
  • ahhh, yes... my new blink-i-nator 3000!!!
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2012, »
well, for example, when i try to measure the current used by the smart strings, i try to include the  tester in the circuit, but i don't get high enough numbers when the string is on full white
To rule the entire tri-state area!  What's that? Perry the Platypus!!!

Offline tbone321

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4055
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2012, »
What readings are you getting and where are you putting the meter?
If at first you don't succeed,
your not cut out for sky diving

Offline chrisatpsu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3729
  • ahhh, yes... my new blink-i-nator 3000!!!
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2012, »
i connect the multitester between the + connector, and the + lead on the end of the string, so that the tester is in series with the string.
To rule the entire tri-state area!  What's that? Perry the Platypus!!!

Offline chrisatpsu

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3729
  • ahhh, yes... my new blink-i-nator 3000!!!
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2012, »
when i'm expecting to see amps, it's reading a much smaller number in mA
To rule the entire tri-state area!  What's that? Perry the Platypus!!!

Offline zwiller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1740
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2012, »
You're not alone.  I have issues trying to test amps as well. 

If I test a single rectangular node connected to a 2010 controller, meter should read around 52ma, right?

Sam, who is happy he flashed his etherdongle with newest firmware!

"Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."

Offline smeighan

  • Patron Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2285
    • Nutcracker RGB Sequence Builder
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2012, »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You're not alone.  I have issues trying to test amps as well. 

If I test a single rectangular node connected to a 2010 controller, meter should read around 52ma, right?

Maybe the current is not constant? I wonder if you had an oscilloscope connected what it would look like.

If the signals are PWM maybe it looks something like this
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

i speak as if i know anything about the electronics of pixels
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, by smeighan »
Sean
Littleton, CO
Latest releases You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xLights/Nutcracker Forum You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Fbook You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline Zeph

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 58
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2012, »
First note - some answers might assume an AC string; AC current can be measured with current clamps (which essentially makes a tiny transformer).  Doesn't work for DC, tho.  In general, you will need to put something in line to measure DC current.

What I'd do first is use my old analog meter.  It's a very old Radio Shack that was once probably $20.  I've found it to work more reliably on circuits (current or voltage) with a lot of switching noise.  If you don't have an analog meter, I recommend getting one; any time your digital meter reading seems a bit wacky or unstable (varying over time, or when measuring the same thing in different ranges), pull out the analog for a sanity check.

(If I had an oscilliscope I'd put that across the meter leads next and look at the waveform, but we'll leave that aside for now).

The smart strings have a highly variable current when doing PWM (Pulse Width Modulation).  It's full on for a tiny fraction of a second and full off for another fraction, rinse and repeat often.  That can drive a DMM to distraction.

It might measure better when at 100% brightness.  You'd have to look at it with as scope to see if it really stabilizes to full on or if there is any off time.  Try it.

If you really want to measure it with a DMM, you might be able to put an appropriate capacitor across the DMM leads to filter out the variations.  Basically there is a small resistor (called a shunt if anybody cares) between the leads inside the DMM (and the analog meter)  when measuring current.  As current flows through the resistor it develops a voltage which is measured and scaled by the meter.  A capacitor between the leads would smooth out the curve.  I don't know the right value - it depends on the frequency of the PWM in the pixels, the amp range of the meter (which changes the shunt resistor used), and the current draw.

I would not be surprised if a really good DMM can handle all this in stride; I've never had a really good professional DMM.


Offline shortguy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 16
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2012, »
Current clamp can in fact read DC current, thank goodness or it would make my life unbearable. However I never thought about PWM. Because of that you are getting an average.
If holiday decorating is wrong, I don't wanna be right!

Offline taybrynn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
    • RockinChristmas
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2012, »
The tough part is that your measuring something that is going to vary a lot anyways, so I'd be more interested in what the peak or average amps was.

I use a Watts Up, but same as a Killowatt ... and I hook it up to the extension cord that say feeds the PS for an active hub.  Then I run some songs through it and measure what the peak, min, max, avg are. 

In my mostly incand. world ... these things don't use much juice at all.  Meaning, I could run two active hubs off a single 15a dedicated circuit and just forget about it.

I also use a whole house power meter, called the TED5000.  I can watched the whole house usage in real time and was shocked how low it often was.  Meaning these shows spike the power a lot, but its highly variable unless you sequence everything on and leave it for awhile. 

It was helpful once, when I was blowing a GFCI ... I located an exact spot in a sequence and was able to turn off some lights that were supposed to be OFF, but were actually ON ... creating and overload on a circuit I was used ... by relying on used 2 colors at once but never 3.
Scott - Castle Rock, Colorado   [ 2 homes, 100% RGB in 2016; since 2008; over 32k channels of E1.31 ]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline smeighan

  • Patron Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2285
    • Nutcracker RGB Sequence Builder
Re: measuring amps.
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2012, »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The tough part is that your measuring something that is going to vary a lot anyways, so I'd be more interested in what the peak or average amps was.

I use a Watts Up, but same as a Killowatt ... and I hook it up to the extension cord that say feeds the PS for an active hub.  Then I run some songs through it and measure what the peak, min, max, avg are. 

In my mostly incand. world ... these things don't use much juice at all.  Meaning, I could run two active hubs off a single 15a dedicated circuit and just forget about it.

I also use a whole house power meter, called the TED5000.  I can watched the whole house usage in real time and was shocked how low it often was.  Meaning these shows spike the power a lot, but its highly variable unless you sequence everything on and leave it for awhile. 

It was helpful once, when I was blowing a GFCI ... I located an exact spot in a sequence and was able to turn off some lights that were supposed to be OFF, but were actually ON ... creating and overload on a circuit I was used ... by relying on used 2 colors at once but never 3.

You may have noticed the Nutcracker current meter is missing. I broke it in one of my code promotions and just havent gotten back to it.

When people build a target in nutcracker, i am going to prompt (or maybe just assume .3w) for the wattage of a single pixel.
Then for each frame i calculate the wattage each pixel is using , scaling it by the intensity setting.

It may not be perfect, but it will be a free meter showing power consumed during your show,
Sean
Littleton, CO
Latest releases You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
xLights/Nutcracker Forum You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Fbook You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline taybrynn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
    • RockinChristmas
measuring amps.
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2012, »
That's very cool.
Scott - Castle Rock, Colorado   [ 2 homes, 100% RGB in 2016; since 2008; over 32k channels of E1.31 ]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login