DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: towtruck on February 27, 2013,
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I am so glad that I found this group ... now I have something new to be obsessed with.
I have spent the last few weeks reading through threads on the board, watching related videos and puzzling over pictures and diagrams on the wiki.
I have to admit that there are a lot of things that I am reading that I have no clue about but I figure it will come with time and some hands on experience with the relavent hardware and software.
My budget means that I will have to start smaller that I would like (isn't this always the way). I bought 2 LEs and a dongle (not an etherdongle) from blearning which I will be able to pickup early next week. They should allow me to do something nice with the lights I already have.
I am fascinated with the smart strings and would like to do something with them.
"She Who Must Be Obeyed" aka my wife would like to have an animated face and has ok'ed some of these coro mini trees: http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?20362-New-Mini-Tree-Design
From what I have been reading, a LE (or part of one) would do the talking face.
I have been using this diagram as a start for my thoughts and questions on smart strings: http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=ActiveHub16Use
With the smartstrings, I was thinking I could make a 'standard base' with 6 nodes and use them for coro trees, stars, jack-o-lanterns, ghosts and other shapes as I make them
Based on what I have read and absorbed so far, I see my setup as being pretty much like the diagram I linked out of the wiki.
With this in mind I have some questions ...
Pixelnet dongle: Which dongle will work best? I plan on starting out wired, so I don't see need for wireless atm.
SS Hub: Since I am running DMX hardware (2 x LE) I am assuming that I need to use at least 1 SS active hub. Or will a passive hubs work to pass through to the DMX hardware.
Pixelnet Cat5e: In the diagram, it is listed as stranded ... it that any different from the cat5e used for the rest of the connections?
Smart Strings: Assuming 6 nodes per display item (I'll call it a pumpkin from now on to save on the words), I would like to run through the different colors on them as well as being able to dim them. Would I need SSC (smart string controller) for this or is this something a DSC (dumb string controller) can do?
Will I need a SSC or DSC for each pumpkin or can I daisy chain them together, say using cat5e? If I can daisy chain them together, what are the limitations? I think I have read 128 nodes/4 amps so far but I imagine there must be a physical cable length limit as well?
Is there anything I have missed?
I hope this all makes some sort of sense.
Thanks for any help.
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First off Welcome to DLA. There is unlimited knowledge and help here!
Now let my try and clarify a couple of things here.
1. LEs are a DMX controller and will not control smart strings. They will drive anything that can be pugged into and outlet within the max amp ratings
2. As far as dongles the Ether dongle is the future, but a usb Lynx dongle can be flashed to run pixelnet.
Etd= 4 pixelnet universes @ 4096 channels per universe run through your network
USB Pixelnet dongle = 1 pixelnet universe of 4096 channel.
3. Passive hubs DO NOT convert pixelnet to DMX so you will need an active hub to convert the pixelnet to DMX
4. Most cat5 cable is not stranded and for the smart strings they are carrying 12vts so they need to be stranded to carry the current.
5. I look at SS v Dumb string as SS will control every node and Dumb control a node string. There are length limits to strings, but that can be increased using "Null" nodes to amplify the data signal, but you are still limited to the 128 node max.
I am no expert here at all, but I hope this helps a little.
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towtruck,
First off, welcome!
From what I have been reading, a LE (or part of one) would do the talking face.
It depends on what you are animating. Some people animate 3 mouth parts (one channel each) and the eyes (one channel), for 4 channels total. This animation will get the animation talking but not blinking, but one LE will support 4 faces.
The more popular way animates 4 mouth parts (one being the top mouth - closed) and 4 eye parts (2 per eye where one is the bottom eye part and one is the top eye part). This animation will get the animation talking and blinking and one LE will support 2 faces.
Pixelnet dongle: Which dongle will work best? I plan on starting out wired, so I don't see need for wireless atm.
Well Pixelnet dongle with a Smart Hub will give you output for your smart strings (via smart string controllers), dumb strings (via dumb string controllers) and wired DMX. Dongle is just the part hanging off your computer so when you say Pixelnet dongle, that IS the dongle you would use.
I think you were asking (sort of) whether to use wireless or wired. The answer depends one what you need. Wired is more reliable (no wireless interference from the neighbor's wireless phone! LOL) but requires you to cable things up. Wireless is less reliable (due to wireless interference if you are in a wireless dense area) however, it does not require a wire to run across the yard.
SS Hub: Since I am running DMX hardware (2 x LE) I am assuming that I need to use at least 1 SS active hub. Or will a passive hubs work to pass through to the DMX hardware.
Activehub has DMX. Passive Hub does not. Think of the Passive hub as a pixelnet repeater with no DMX output.
Pixelnet Cat5e: In the diagram, it is listed as stranded ... it that any different from the cat5e used for the rest of the connections?
stranded or solid core will work. However, stranded is recommended as it will not 'break' if flexed a bit. Solid core is really slated for what we call 'premise' wiring. Which is a fancy word to mean install it once and don't move it (like wiring that would be set up in the walls of your house).
Smart Strings: Assuming 6 nodes per display item (I'll call it a pumpkin from now on to save on the words), I would like to run through the different colors on them as well as being able to dim them. Would I need SSC (smart string controller) for this or is this something a DSC (dumb string controller) can do?
Dumb strings are RGB lights that will control RGB for EVERY bulb in the strand. The addressing for RGB dumb strings is 3 channels (no matter the node/bulb count)
Smart strings are RGB light that will control RGB light for EACH bulb in the strand. The addressing for RGB smart strings is 3 X node count (nodes are bulbs in the string)
Will I need a SSC or DSC for each pumpkin or can I daisy chain them together, say using cat5e? If I can daisy chain them together, what are the limitations? I think I have read 128 nodes/4 amps so far but I imagine there must be a physical cable length limit as well?
Each SSC or DSC will be direct connected to the hub (no daisy chain). You could use a multi node string to light multiple items. With a DSC, all your items would change color and blink together. With SSC, you have the ability to indivudally control each bulb and thus can individually control each item (color and blinking)
[Slight edit to my no daisy chain comment: You can daisy chain the signal. It will have the information for the block of 4096 channels coming from Pixelnet. Realize this signal is for pixelnet only and not a standard DMX signal. You would have to chain this to another SSC or DSC. I am not sure of the limit in distance but I have heard that over 2feet can be problematic. I am not sure the distance for v3 of the SSC.]
Hope this helps.
Kurt
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Thank you both for the welcome and your answers, they are a great help for me to figure this out.
... a usb Lynx dongle can be flashed to run pixelnet ...
It sounds like I will need a PICkit 3 to flash my dongle to run pixelnet and I'll add an etherdongle to my wish list.
The more popular way animates 4 mouth parts (one being the top mouth - closed) and 4 eye parts (2 per eye where one is the bottom eye part and one is the top eye part). This animation will get the animation talking and blinking and one LE will support 2 faces.
She prefers this more animated version of the talking head.
I think you were asking (sort of) whether to use wireless or wired. The answer depends one what you need. Wired is more reliable (no wireless interference from the neighbor's wireless phone! LOL) but requires you to cable things up. Wireless is less reliable (due to wireless interference if you are in a wireless dense area) however, it does not require a wire to run across the yard.
I am happy running wired. Our yard is not so big and I have found from past experience that I am a good source of wireless interference myself.
Each SSC or DSC will be direct connected to the hub (no daisy chain). You could use a multi node string to light multiple items. With a DSC, all your items would change color and blink together. With SSC, you have the ability to indivudally control each bulb and thus can individually control each item (color and blinking)
[Slight edit to my no daisy chain comment: You can daisy chain the signal. It will have the information for the block of 4096 channels coming from Pixelnet. Realize this signal is for pixelnet only and not a standard DMX signal. You would have to chain this to another SSC or DSC. I am not sure of the limit in distance but I have heard that over 2feet can be problematic. I am not sure the distance for v3 of the SSC.]
I think the SSC would work better for me (moar control is *always* better) and it looks like I will need a scad of stranded cat5e :)
I'll doodle up a diagram of how I see it being laid out and post it for comments and suggestions.
Thanks again!
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The dongles can be flashed with firmware to output pixelnet or DMX. If you flash the dongle for DMX, it can control your LEs directly. If you flash it for pixelnet, you will need an active hub to generate the DMX needed for the LEs.
If you don't have one, it is advisable to get a pickit3 programmer. That is what you will need to "flash" (program) the pic micro controllers. J1sys has some kits with programming adapters - many of us have the universal socket. Most of the new stuff has a programming header on the board, but a few items require you to pull the chip to program it.
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Well, I guess I have lost most of my doodling skills as demonstrated by the attached picture. Luckily my daughter assised by cutting out the pumpkins. At some point I need to find something computer based to make it neater.
So, based on the comments above and what I have gleaned so far from the forum, I came up with this rough plan.
Basically I am looking at having a 16 port SS Hub on each side of the yard to cut down on the cat5e lengths. One active hub near the computer and the far side of the yard would have a passive one.
Each pumpkin would have its own SSC.
Any corrections and suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Steve
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If you don't have one, it is advisable to get a pickit3 programmer. That is what you will need to "flash" (program) the pic micro controllers. J1sys has some kits with programming adapters - many of us have the universal socket. Most of the new stuff has a programming header on the board, but a few items require you to pull the chip to program it.
Perfect, thank you.
I had a look on ebay and say the J1sys kits and saw this one for less:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PICKIT-3-Programmer-Debugger-MCU-Universal-ZIF-socket-for-PICkit-2-or-3-/251161472770?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a7a63ef02
Would it do the trick?
I assume it must be a knock off
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Does not include the PicKit 2 or 3, it is just the ZIF socket board.
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So, based on the comments above and what I have gleaned so far from the forum, I came up with this rough plan.
If the actual number of planned pumpkins is drawn correctly, you have 20. You could eliminate the need for the passive SS hub if you only wanted 16 pumpkins instead of 20. You could run all 16 off your 1 active SS hub. (just an idea if you're wanting to trim down as much cost as you can)
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Does not include the PicKit 2 or 3, it is just the ZIF socket board.
I thought for sure I checked the package contents to make sure it was included ... Thanks for pointing that out. I'll keep looking.
... and 20 minutes later ...
I just checked the package contents and it looks like it includes the PicKit3 and a ZIF socket board (PIC KIT3 Programmer/Debugger x 1, MCU Universal ZIF socket　x 1, RJ11 to 6-pin flat cable x 1, 6-pin flat cables ×1, Mini USB print cable x1, Free 6-pin header ×1, Free 6-pin housing ×1)
If the actual number of planned pumpkins is drawn correctly, you have 20. You could eliminate the need for the passive SS hub if you only wanted 16 pumpkins instead of 20. You could run all 16 off your 1 active SS hub. (just an idea if you're wanting to trim down as much cost as you can)
Well I ran out of pumpkins to stick on (my helper got sent to bed). I would like to have more, but it depends upon $$ at the time of the coop.
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Looking at your diagram, I have to ask how far apart are your pumpkins? It looks like you have them in groups. If that is the case, you can have one SSC per group which would save you $$$$$. SSC's can add up quickly in cost if you are using one per pumpkin.
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I was planning on having them 3' to 5' apart though I could gather them closer into clusters.
But even closer, wouldn't I have the lights run bare in between the pumpkings? I guess the idea would be to just not light those ones up.
Yes, having one SSC per pumpking makes it expensive.
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You can splice wire in between the nodes, some have had up to 6 or 8 feet between nodes. I'm testing here in a little bit with 5 feet between for a North Pole setup
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6 to 10 ft is normally not an issue. I have seen people run 20 ft but I think they run the chance of issue at that distence.
RJ
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6 to 10 ft is normally not an issue. I have seen people run 20 ft but I think they run the chance of issue at that distence.
You can splice wire in between the nodes, some have had up to 6 or 8 feet between nodes. I'm testing here in a little bit with 5 feet between for a North Pole setup
Wow, this is great news for me. Thanks.
Ideally I would like to have 3 to 6 nodes in a tight group and then splice in say 6 feet and have another 3 to 6 nodes in a tight group, splice in another 6 feet another group of nodes, etc.
What total length (ie feet) could I run before I potentially get in trouble?
Rather than splice and solder in the 6 feet between the group of nodes, could I use connecters of some sort (molex?) and then make extension cables?
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Hi Towtruck,
I'm working on some Halloween singers for Halloween this year using 110V LED rope light.
Each of mine have about 7 channels driven by DLA LE's.
Here's a pre-view clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z_aqG15hl8
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Wow, this is great news for me. Thanks.
Ideally I would like to have 3 to 6 nodes in a tight group and then splice in say 6 feet and have another 3 to 6 nodes in a tight group, splice in another 6 feet another group of nodes, etc.
What total length (ie feet) could I run before I potentially get in trouble?
There are two things that you need to need to watch out for with smart strings, signal loss and voltage drop. As RJ said, you should be able to go about 10 feet between nodes without signal problems but if you need to go farther or for some reason are having issues, you can simply add a node in the middle of the length and simply skip it in the sequence. Each node recreates the signal minus the channel it claims for itself so you can add nodes to increase length as long as you have the channels available for them.
Since we are using 12V for smart strings, voltage drop is not as much of an issue as it is with 5V strings. Before I would get to worried about it I would set up a test and see if it is even noticeable. Since you are using groups pf pumpkins, even if one group is a little dimmer than the other, it simply may not even be seen. If it is, you can correct it by either slightly dimming the group that it the brightest in the sequence, use a heavier gauge wire between the groups, or inject new power on the dimmer groups.
Rather than splice and solder in the 6 feet between the group of nodes, could I use connecters of some sort (molex?) and then make extension cables?
There is no reason not to do that except for the cost of the molex connectors. Just make sure that they are either outdoor rated or protected from corrosion or you could have issues with voltage drop and signal loss.
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Hi Towtruck,
I'm working on some Halloween singers for Halloween this year using 110V LED rope light.
Each of mine have about 7 channels driven by DLA LE's.
Here's a pre-view clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z_aqG15hl8
Hi Pete.
That looks great. I also had a look at some of your other videos and they look great as well. If you don't mind I will drop you a pm later and pick your brain :)
-Steve
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There are two things that you need to need to watch out for with smart strings, signal loss and voltage drop. As RJ said, you should be able to go about 10 feet between nodes without signal problems but if you need to go farther or for some reason are having issues, you can simply add a node in the middle of the length and simply skip it in the sequence. Each node recreates the signal minus the channel it claims for itself so you can add nodes to increase length as long as you have the channels available for them.
Since we are using 12V for smart strings, voltage drop is not as much of an issue as it is with 5V strings. Before I would get to worried about it I would set up a test and see if it is even noticeable. Since you are using groups pf pumpkins, even if one group is a little dimmer than the other, it simply may not even be seen. If it is, you can correct it by either slightly dimming the group that it the brightest in the sequence, use a heavier gauge wire between the groups, or inject new power on the dimmer groups.
Alright, that clears up some of the doubts I was having with starting with the smart strings and the startup cost for what I wanted to try.
There is no reason not to do that except for the cost of the molex connectors. Just make sure that they are either outdoor rated or protected from corrosion or you could have issues with voltage drop and signal loss.
Perhaps molex would not be the best choice. Would you have any suggestions of what might be a better connector for this? I live in New Brunswick, Canada which is north of Maine, US ... we tend towards the extreme end winter.
I was thinking that I would build 'standard' bases using wood (I like working with wood :)), say 10" x 10" x 2" and attach 3 to 6 nodes to each. I wanted to use extension cables with connectors to make it easier to store and setup. Depending upon what we want for the display we can place a pumpkin on the base or something made of coro.
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The 3 cable waterproof connectors are perfect for that.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/10pcs-lot3-Core-White-Waterproof-Line-15cm-long-each-male-and-female/701799_425563008.html
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Hi Towtruck,
I'm working on some Halloween singers for Halloween this year using 110V LED rope light.
Each of mine have about 7 channels driven by DLA LE's.
Here's a pre-view clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z_aqG15hl8
Hi Pete.
That looks great. I also had a look at some of your other videos and they look great as well. If you don't mind I will drop you a pm later and pick your brain :)
-Steve
Sure, no problem.
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The 3 cable waterproof connectors are perfect for that.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/10pcs-lot3-Core-White-Waterproof-Line-15cm-long-each-male-and-female/701799_425563008.html
Thanks, those are perfect and cheap ... except for the shipping. I'll get them when I order the leds, once I figure out what to get.
What guage wire should I use to extend them?
I see he has these 10' ones: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/3m-10feet-3-core-waterproof-extension-cable-one-end-with-male-the-other-end-with-female/701799_654715821.html
but the added length of them might be close to giving me problems based on others comments.
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What guage wire should I use to extend them?
I see he has these 10' ones: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/3m-10feet-3-core-waterproof-extension-cable-one-end-with-male-the-other-end-with-female/701799_654715821.html
but the added length of them might be close to giving me problems based on others comments.
The following is listed in the Wiki, would it work for what you're trying to do:
3 conductor cable (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100m-lot-3pin-cable-for-RGB-color-led-strip-module-20AWG-100m-long/701799_425559947.html)
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If you want to buy here in the US diyledexpress.com has the connectors also (4 core)
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The following is listed in the Wiki, would it work for what you're trying to do:
3 conductor cable (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/100m-lot-3pin-cable-for-RGB-color-led-strip-module-20AWG-100m-long/701799_425559947.html)
Ugh, I need to spend somemore time in the wiki. I'll dig around and see if he a a version of it that will stand the elements better.
Thanks!
I may end up buying their 10' cords and cutting them down to a shorter length.
If you want to buy here in the US diyledexpress.com has the connectors also (4 core)
Thanks. When I am ready to start ordering I'll check them out again and see if their cart system is back online.