DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Express => Topic started by: GrumpkaXmas on February 06, 2014,
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EDIT: Ok, serious? I just printed the manual out. I won't name names, but there is simply NO WAY the guy I bought these from tested these things. See edit notes below..... I"m feeling VERY dumb....
<la..
Well, I wanted to learn electronics, guess I'm going to learn electronics with this latest blunder.
I purchased five Lynx Express boards very recently. I'm sure the seller had great intentions, but I'm now facing some challenges. I purchased these based on "tested ok". I was aware of a couple broken parts on one board. The rest I thought would be ready to run. Before i even attempt to connect these to a computer, I want to be sure they pass the self test. Not sure any of them have.
I was unable to find the wiki section on self test and what the results had meant.
I'm hoping someone could steer me in the right direction. I'm pretty much brand new at electronics, but happy to read and study, learn and problem solve. A little help getting going would be great though. Love to get at least one or two out of the five boards talking to the PC via DMX.
Here's the results of the fix boards:
Board #1) Version 3.0 :
Powers up 5v Led ok, 3.3v LED dead (need to check the led I guess). Self test- runs through, all 16 channels blink, ends with #2,#3, #4 remaining light at end of self test. Seems like 120v is going to the triac output on the terminal blocks for these channels as well. Test repeated three times, cold starts, same results.
EDIT: Board is completely missing RS485 Chip right of DMX IN. Betting that might help if I get me one of those, LOL! It's a start.
Board #2) Version 3.0:
Led 5v & 3.3v light, everything looks great. Selfcheck leaves on channel #2 & #4. (hoping this one is good, and the results are normal?)
EDIT: I think this board is Ok??? Still searching for info in manual on selfcheck directions
Board #3) Version 2.0, maybe my best hope. No self test in version 2 or LEDs for 5v or 3.3v. LED Segments light fine and codes seem fine. Might be ready to go to work? Anything I should check prior to connecting to DMX? I don't want to fry my DMX dongle and PC.
EDIT:ALso Missing the RS485 chip??? Did this guy get hungry for RS485 chips? He must have hacked these boards for parts. Sad the seller didn't notice this....
Board #4) Version 3.0, 5v Led OK, 3.3v Dead. LED Segments Dead. Nothing going on. Don't know where to even start on this one
EDIT: Hmmm, let's start with the fact BOTH RS485 chips are gone! Maybe, that is also why the 3.3v Led's don't light on the other board.
Board #5) Version 4.0 , 5V led ok, 3.3v ok, LED ok, Self test, no channel leds light at all. ?
Note: This board has two broken BTA06-600s (i'm not impressed with the built actually, lots of flimsy soldering) Power terminal block needs to be replaced, broke neutral pin, and a few other items I'm not please with.
EDIT: You guessed it, missing an RS485 chip. Think the busted Triac wouldn't stop the LED's from lighting though. Maybe this one needs to be reflashed. :-[
I am not too sure where to start. I guess for what I paid, I can't really complain. However, I really want all five boards to function. I assume I can test each part and perhaps reflow every junction. I don't have a programmer, but I'm sure that can't be too hard to get. Maybe, reseat all the Pic chips? I'd just like to see what is what and if anything I listed will help narrow down this seemingly impossible newbie troubleshooting list of tasks. In hindsight, I think I should have saved my money and started with my own builds. Disappointed with what looks like a very inexperienced persons attempt to desolder some triacs. Well, at least I know I'll take my time and redo this stuff the right way. Half-a**ing something that runs on line voltage is just idiotic. I think people forget how easy it is to be killed by 120v.
Anyway... any and all help appreciated.
If anyone is nearby in NorthWest NJ who knows Lynx Express boards, I'd be happy to buy you lunch or dinner to come help me check these things over. I'm in a bit over my head I think. LOL.
Thanks,
Stephen
<fp.
EDIT:Going to order me some RS485 IC's A lot of them. PIC2 Programmer, maybe a few new pic chips, find a replacement for the SAA1064 chip, as I think that may be shot on one of the boars, some new BTA06-600S, and a hand full of MOC3032's. This is might take me a while. Still can't believe I missed the rs485's. I say the blank IC's but figured they were for "optional" expansion or such. First time I'm seeing a LE in person up close. BTW RJ, WOW! What a nice board. Drool. Very well made, the spacing of the traces, the size of the AC traces, the overall board feels very professional. I have to say, I'm glad these are my first boards. Can't wait to build my own so I can avoid fixing other peoples messes. At least I'll know how to problem solve these little boards once I get through this....
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I think the best think you can do to get some help is post some photos of each of the controllers. Do shots of both the top and bottom of both so that we can see what parts are installed (top) and also the soldering of them (bottom). Since you have multiple boards, be sure to make it easy for us to understand which is which.
The missing RS485 chip next to the DMX IN location is likely because the board was using wireless. If you have connectors at the "Wireless module" location, it was likely used for wireless as these aren't typically included with the LE coops, but rather with the EX/RX coops and BOM. See the Manual for the EX/RX (http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual_EXRX) for which versions require that chip to be removed for wireless and which have a jumper.
The Channel 2, 3, and 4 LEDs are for checking different things that are working (ZC=Zero Cross, DMX input, and DONE). 2 and 4 should always light up after the test. 3 will if the board is getting a DMX signal. If you don't have it hooked up to a dongle or wireless, it will likely be off. But if the RS485 chips are missing, I've seen different results on different versions.
The rest will be easier to help with the photos... at least for me. Others may be able to help more without them.
I'd also suggest getting a PICKIT 3 rather than the 2, just in case you decide to move to pixelnet in the future.
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Yes pictures are a great way to help us help you. You can relax, unless the pcb is damaged physically we can always get them working. The non worked 3.3v led if the unit boots with the digits lighting up then you have 3.3 volts so the led might have been installed backwards (normally what would cause this) the RS485 chips as said on the older models where removed to use wireless. so likely why some are missing. I doubt the led driver is bad as I have not personally seen or heard of one failing on the expresses other than someone dropping it and stepping on it and thats nto really a failure of the chip. We will get you working theres a lot of great people on the forum more than willing to help.
RJ
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Yes pictures are a great way to help us help you. You can relax, unless the pcb is damaged physically we can always get them working. The non worked 3.3v led if the unit boots with the digits lighting up then you have 3.3 volts so the led might have been installed backwards (normally what would cause this) the RS485 chips as said on the older models where removed to use wireless. so likely why some are missing. I doubt the led driver is bad as I have not personally seen or heard of one failing on the expresses other than someone dropping it and stepping on it and thats nto really a failure of the chip. We will get you working theres a lot of great people on the forum more than willing to help.
RJ
Thanks RJ. I know, you guys are very helpful. I'm in good hands. I'll get some pictures posted. First, I'm going to pop the ST485BN into the Rev 2 board. I think that board is in nice condition. It was a clean build. I'll work my way onto the next board. I figured I had 3.3v, regardless of the led. I think the board with no LCD display is the one I'm most concerned with. That one might have a bad voltage reg or such. Think I need to just do one at a time. (don't want to drive everyone crazy.) I'll do what I can myself tomorrow, and pick a board and work one at a time. No rush. I'm just having fun and greatful I'll have support along the way.
Have a great night guys. Thanks for the help.
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Quicky question
Can a max485 replace the ST485BN on the express board? I thinking it can't based on some quick searches on google. Thought I'd ask.
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Swapping out parts when the actual needed part is still available is not a good idea. One of the reasons that this group is so effective at offerng support is that we all have the same items created with the same components and using the same firmware versions so we know what to expect and what most of the issues are. When you move away from the tried and proven components, you introduce variables that could make it difficult for others in the group to be able to help you.
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Swapping out parts when the actual needed part is still available is not a good idea. One of the reasons that this group is so effective at offerng support is that we all have the same items created with the same components and using the same firmware versions so we know what to expect and what most of the issues are. When you move away from the tried and proven components, you introduce variables that could make it difficult for others in the group to be able to help you.
Good advice. BTW: Swapped the RS485's and now have two LE v3's with self test ok, just #2/#4 light is on. Guessing that is good? One 3.3v LED is out, but as RJ said, must be the LED as the LCD is fine. Can't wait to hook up Vixen and get these things talk. The other three boards all need RS485's.
Oh, question on that point, The ST485BN is stated at END OF LIFE on Mouser. I can get the chips, but what happens when you can't get that same chip anymore?
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The MAX485 should work instead of the ST485BN. If you have it on hand, give it a shot. There's one version of the MAX485 that's only rated to work down to 0C; that may cause issues depending on where you live, but only when it gets below freezing.
/mike
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The MAX485 should work instead of the ST485BN. If you have it on hand, give it a shot. There's one version of the MAX485 that's only rated to work down to 0C; that may cause issues depending on where you live, but only when it gets below freezing.
/mike
I don't have one, but can get them much cheaper than the ST485BN. (in small qty anyway). Looking at the data sheets and seeing if there is much difference.
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Oh, question on that point, The ST485BN is stated at END OF LIFE on Mouser. I can get the chips, but what happens when you can't get that same chip anymore?
Under normal circumstances, people will submit possible replacement part number specs and if RJ approves it, then it becomes the new part number and the bom is updated.
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Watch those cheap ones as they normall are limited in temp range and can cause you problems.
RJ
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Watch those cheap ones as they normall are limited in temp range and can cause you problems.
RJ
I saw that. Some of the alternatives had different temp specs. Didn't even bother with the Max485. I might get one to try it for fun, but just going ST485BN. Mouser has plenty. Trying to put an order together so I don't have to pay $8.00 shipping on $8.00 of IC's. LOL
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Then I would make it a spare parts run as well like some spare Triacs, a few opto's, a couple of spare PICs, as well as the needed 485's with a few spares here as well.
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;D
IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!
One success story..... Self test-success, DMX via Vixen, 16 random channel sequence-success. Tried out two 50watt floods, ramp up, hold, ramp down, success. I am so stick'n happy this thing worked. Next step is to mount the heat sink, properly mount board into it's case, and connect the wires up properly.
I reprogrammed this board to be channel 1. So, I assume I just program the next board in the chain to channel 17? Seems logical....
Can't wait to get the other boards up and running. So far, so good. Thanks for all the help guys. I'm sure I'll need more help when I get to the three other boards. Can't tackle that task until my new solder station and the mouser stuff arrives.
This is exactly what I wanted. A trouble free, initial setup. From here, I can have confidence to have a shot at building boards, the lynx dongles, and obviously a few more LE v5 boards next Coop.
To be continued.....
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To help with your order from mouser if you plan on getting into RGB you could buy some extra fuses for the active hub ect. Also check out the boms. In the wiki for any parts you may need for other equipment
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So, the good news of the day is board one of five is tested, working, heat sink mounted properly, unit is in the case, all wires properly run and attached, all channels of (except one channel needed a snubber which was a 50w spot). All good very happy. Done.
Board #2.
Self check okay, BUT, when I checked the voltage meter I get some trouble. Channel #5 dead. no 110V, not nothing.
I figure #5 is a IC issue, rather than Triac. Remove MOC3023, and I find this???????
How or why would this happen? Is this a sign of something more serious? Before I go further, please let me know what you guys think of this. Almost looks like the person who built the board fried something with his soldering iron. On the other hand, why the perfectly round hole in the pin slot? VOltage surge?
I guess I'll test the triac next. Maybe, nothing wrong with it. Didn't want to go any further though until I understand why something like this happens. No other signs of problems I can see...
Channel #12, voltage leak when meter checked up to 68v climbs slowely. #13, 35v or so, #14 3v. When I plug in a 50w spot, it is in fact off, and the voltage will go down to zero. All other channels stay flat with no load. I don't know all that much about triacs, but this sounds like a something is up. Under load, they work though... Do I need to address this?
EDIT: I popped in a MOC3021 (which I think is about the same as the MOC3023) just to check the socket on #5. It works fine. I'm just worried now, what made this happen to start with. I guess I should change the IC socket just to be safe....
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If the middle lead on the triac isn't soldered correctly, all of the load current will try to flow through the MOC3023 and 180 ohm resistor instead of through the triac. Normally it is the resistor that smokes first, but in this case the socket took the heat. I'd recommend replacing the socket and MOC3023. Also, with the chip out of the socket, measure the resistance of the 180 ohm resistor; if it is off by more than 10 ohms, replace it too.
The middle lead on the triac is internally connected to the tab and thus thermally to the heatsink so it can take a bit of heat to solder properly. Removing its screw while soldering (so the heatsink doesn't try drawing all the heat away from the joint) may help.
/mike
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that socket is ruined. The solder is shorting out the input of the optocoupler which would prevent the triac from turning on.
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Both are correct, Change the socket and resolder all of the joints on the triac. This should resolve you issues. The two different MOC part numbers are not the same part you may want to get the correct one.
RJ
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Awesome. Thank you guys. I would think improper solder job sounds about right. I'll go back and reflow as much as I can.
New parts on there way (including the MOC3023's). I want to get each board 100%.
Oh, and the leakage on the triacs? Isn't that pretty normal? I've tried to read up and search the threads. Sometimes it hard to find old thread on the subject matter. Don't mean to ask repetitive questions... I'm not worried about it, as a snubber solves the problem anyway...
Thanks again. That's as far as I can go until my mouser order arrives.
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Good News, another board has been completed. :D I replaced the burnt out 6pin socket, reflowed the triacs, and replaced the 3.3v LED. cleaned the board, and placed the heat sink on properly. Tested and ready to mount in the case.
Two down, three to go. Thanks for all the help. I must admit, problem solving and learning how to repair the board was fun.
Ok, now I'm on board #3.(of 5). The first thing I found was sort of funny, sort of sad! EVERY MOC3023 was installed backwards! Which figures, as half or more of the 6pin IC sockets are installed wrong. I'm not changing sockets, but I removed and re-installed the MOC's correctly. I've installed two new ST485BN's. Here's were I'm lost. At first, only the 5v LED came on. I was thinking the worse. I shut down, checked all the 180 ohm and 330ohm resistors. All checked well within tolerance. Fired back up, nothing. No LCD, just that lonely scary 5v led. Shut down, and did something from back in my days of electronic synths. I rapid fired off and on a few times. BINGO We have ignition. 5V, 3.3V LCD screen. A fully working board. Plugged into Vixen, ran test, works. Shut down, fire back up, DEAD. Only the 5V came on. I recall something about the pic socket being a possible issue. Pulled the pic, and re-installed. Fired back up, it works. Shut-Down, back on, nothing but that 5v LED again.
(update: Pulled Pic again, cleaned it and the socket, didn't work at first, flipped on and off, it works, turn off, come back, need to give it that little off/on flick to get it back on)
Not sure where to start. I'm hoping this description might point to something specific.
Alright, I'll get back to it and do what I can in the meanwhile. Maybe, I'll stumble on an answer in the meanwhile.
<fp.
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Unfortunantly, this is being caused by a bad regulator and this regulator may no longer be available. I have a board with the same issue. I'll have to do some more research to see if I can find something similar but I will probably need to modify the board.
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Do you know which regulator? I have a new L7805ABV, and a LD1117V33C
Wishing I bought more maybe? LOL.
Think I have two of each. Even have a brandy new transformer just in case.
I'll have to do some homework too. Not sure how to check them, beyond simple volt meter. Beyond that, wouldn't know what to look for. Especially, as the problem is intermittent.
Thanks for the help. Let me know if you come up with anything further. These boards were all such a mess. Working on a V2 board. Found a fried resistor with magic smoke marks, and another fried 6 pin socket... What did this guy do to these boards???? <fp.
Well, at least by the time I'm done repairing 5 boards, I'll know this these things pretty well. Building a new one will be an absolute pleasure. ;D
PS: Unrelated to above, different board, any clue as to where to start trouble shooting Zero Cross issue? LED #2 not lit upon self test (version 4.0)
I've been searching for an hour on the forum. Nothing comes up with any keywords. I'm sure I must be missing an obvious guide or something. Checked wiki, checked forum, check google, just nothing talking about the self test and the Z.C. LED.
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What a fun way to start; at least you are very familiar with the Lynx Express now...
Zero cross is detected by the H11AA1 optocoupler between the fuse and transformer. Make sure it is facing the right way and is the right part (H11A1 is a different opto and won't work here). The two big 15K resistors next to it provide power to the opto. Be careful since they and the opto are directly connected to the AC line. The 2k resistor between the opto and the big resisitors is the pullup resistor on the low voltage side of the ZC optoisolator. The right pin (nearer the big resistors) should measure 3.3V; the left side should pulse low at 60Hz so it will measure lower than 3.3V. Those are the only parts involved (other than the PIC itself - make sure pin 16 is properly soldered) with the ZC circuit.
/mike
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An other newbie triumph, V2 board repaired, replaced blown out parts, tested and running : )
I think I know the answer, but can I reflash pic on V2 to latest firmware so I can have self testing? I was going to just switch the pics from a newer board to try this, but didn't want to mess with a working board until I'm sure this would work.
I need to order a programmer so I can flash, but still not sure what to order. Looking at PicKit 2, not clear if PicKit 3 is better....
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Yes, the most current version of the firmware will work on the Ver 2 as well. As for the programmer, the PicKit 2 is easier to use but is unable to flash the newer 32 bit PIC's like the ETD uses. The PicKit 3 can program all of the PIC's but has a steeper initial learning curve and the programmer software is not fully up to date. If you go with the PicKit 3, use the ver 1 PIC programming software. I have both and use the PicKit 2 for everything that it can program and use the PicKit 3 for what it can't.
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Yes, the most current version of the firmware will work on the Ver 2 as well. As for the programmer, the PicKit 2 is easier to use but is unable to flash the newer 32 bit PIC's like the ETD uses. The PicKit 3 can program all of the PIC's but has a steeper initial learning curve and the programmer software is not fully up to date. If you go with the PicKit 3, use the ver 1 PIC programming software. I have both and use the PicKit 2 for everything that it can program and use the PicKit 3 for what it can't.
+1
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Thanks guys. Looks like PicKit2 is where I will start. If I find a need for PicKit3, I can always add a second tool to the growing collection of toys. ;D Glad to hear about the V2 firmware. I love that little self test feature.
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Hello everyone.
I thought I should update the community as to where I am at with Lynx Express builds.
In a very short time, I've gone from knowing very little, to repairing five lynx boards and even building my first board from the ground up. (worked on the first shot). This has been a great journey. I've learned so much.
The reason I'm sharing this update is so other "newbie"/noobs will appreciate the lynx express boards. With my limited soldering skills and electronics knowledge, this community helped me understand what to look for, how to make repairs, and confidence to take on new builds.
Now, I'm very confident with my soldering and troubleshooting abilities. I'm far from "experienced", but these boards are pretty easy to build and if needed, trouble shoot. If you follow the Wiki assembly directions, you should be just fine. I had an enjoyable time with my first complete build. I'm looking forward to the next several LE builds. I have eight to go and hope I'll be able to get even more this summer.
Thanks for all the help guys. It wasn't for nothing. I'm a big fan of the Lynx Express design. In fact, I'm hoping to get my hands on a bunch of Bobcat Servo boards next. Loving this hobby. Most fun I've had with a hobby in a long time.
Have a great evening.
Stephen
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Glad to hear it, this is why DLA exist and why we keep commerical stuff out as much as we can, and make sure we only have one version of everything. This way everyone learns it and can help anyone else with the items.
RJ