DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: Made2Rock on December 02, 2013,
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The problem --
I will replace "bad" nodes and get the house working only to have more nodes go "bad" in a few hours. The nodes were carefully handled and are secured on the house by command strips so there is little to no stress on the wires. The lights are being driven by the SSCv4 controller hooked up to an active hub. I'll use x-lights to test the strings.
I saw one string yesterday go from a "bad node" to the string started to work. So I'm not sure these are truly bad or if I am doing something work. NOTE: This problem has shown up anywhere in the string.
Any ideas????????
Joe
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Did yu burn them in prior to mounting them on the house.
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Yep, I check and recheck things just to make sure. The one interesting thing I have noticed but brushed it off for now is The first node I can control is actually the 4th node in the string. So if I address the SSC to start address 100 is I turn on 100 it is the 4th LED that turns on. I'm not really sure they are related but it is another thing I noticed.
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One thing that people are getting away from is that the SSC was NOT set up to wor with the WS2811 and IIRC, there are no plans to change that. I am not saying that this is your issue but it may be a part of it.
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The protocol used on the SSC works on the Ws2811 I do not think it is killing his nodes. the only issue is the 2811 must have the right clock speed set.
RJ
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Just wanted to add that there is thread over DIYC that the technicolor nodes are not holding up well to water penetration... I would get them inside and dry and test again. Maybe try some Corrosion X?
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They have been dry up until today so my guess is that is not causing the initial problem.
I will say I'm surprised they are not holding up to water. I cut one of the bad nodes apart to verify they were being run in high speed mode (which they are) and I can say the entire block that holds the LED is solid plastic. The leads going into the chip are about 1/2" of solid plastic. So they very enclosed.
Of course with my luck they add a new problem to the mix.
Thanks
Joe
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The protocol used on the SSC works on the Ws2811 I do not think it is killing his nodes. the only issue is the 2811 must have the right clock speed set.
RJ
I didn't mean that the protocol was hurting the nodes, just that it may be causing some of his operational issues.
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Just wanted to add that there is thread over DIYC that the technicolor nodes are not holding up well to water penetration... I would get them inside and dry and test again. Maybe try some Corrosion X?
zwiller, I came home today and fired it all up to see how it was working and after a day of some rain the house that had problems run perfectly, half an hour later one string is acting up. The megatree on the other hand is a mess.
I'm thinking RJ is wondering what I am wondering. I've seen nodes be "bad" then they are good. A bad node can not turn around and become good. On the other hand if the clocking is borderline it would account to working one minute and not the next. The part that doesn't make sense to me is the wiki states the SSC uses a 800Khz clock and the high speed setting on a ws2811 is 800Khz. I tried to cut one of the nodes apart and from the remains it looked like pin 7 of the chip wasn't connected to anything. From what I have been able to find out this puts the WS2811 at 800Khz.
Joe
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Glad to read it does not appear to be a water penetration issue. If I have learned anything from ordering lights from China they are constantly changing things. (including a new higher current led)
I wonder if you have the new higher current led and are under powering? Running 100ct is too much for the SSCv4, I guess around 80 is the new max. Maybe test the current/try power injection. Also what is distance from hub to SSC? Maybe you are too far. Try testing a shorter run? Some more info about your setup might help.
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I was having trouble with a Zeus (but that is another story) So I pulled it and replaced it with a Active hub The very first string had trouble about 5-10 nodes up the string so it is not a power issue.
There was another issue that I didn't think was part of this but maybe I need to look it. When I program a SSC to an address that address shows up as the 5th node in the string. Something is weird about that but maybe this is something to look at.
Joe
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I would run the config utility on the chip again and make sure that your null node count is set to zero.
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The TC nodes are having an extreme failure period. The 2811s have a voltage regulator that is burning up because of high voltage. You will not be able to run Technicolor nodes with an ATX power supply! Actually probably won't be able to run them with any power supply for this year!
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The TC nodes are having an extreme failure period. The 2811s have a voltage regulator that is burning up because of high voltage. You will not be able to run Technicolor nodes with an ATX power supply! Actually probably won't be able to run them with any power supply for this year!
So, the advice is to not use them to avoid further damage -- until a better power solution is found?
What about the Technicolor TM1804, does anyone know if they suffer the same problem?
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Now I thought an ATX power supply was one of the better regulated supplies available for non lab grade type work? Are they spiking or not handling the transient load changes gracefully or something else to cause over voltage?
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The TC nodes are having an extreme failure period. The 2811s have a voltage regulator that is burning up because of high voltage. You will not be able to run Technicolor nodes with an ATX power supply! Actually probably won't be able to run them with any power supply for this year!
I understand the voltage regulator issue and that the WS2811 is constant current, but I've been wondering if the effect could be reduced by lowering overall current as well. For instance, is the failure rate higher if you run with white or mixed colors versus just using the primary red, green, or blue individually since the total current through the voltage regulator would potentially be only 1/3 of an all white draw.
I'm crossing my fingers, but I've burned mine in via an Active Hub and SSC v4 for approximately 24 hours and haven't had a single pixel die on me during testing. This is using an xLights test sequence, mainly the A-B-C red-green-blue color cycle, but I also let them run 6-8 hours in 'mixed colors' mode the first day.
How much time have people had on their pixels before they started seeing issues?
I'm also curious if anyone is reporting success without any issues. Normally people don't speak up if things are running fine.
Since I've heard some people talk about turning their voltage down to 10V, I've also considered the possibility of picking up an adjustable power supply and doing my own 10V power injection right after the Active Hub. I believe the SSC would handle the 10V power input just fine since it has it's own 7805 chip for the logic on board and the input voltage is just passed through to the pixels. For my small set of 8 strings and the fact that I have the SSC's sitting in the same battery box as the active hub (since I don't have my zeus yet), I think this would be easy enough for me to do. Any thoughts?
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Now I thought an ATX power supply was one of the better regulated supplies available for non lab grade type work? Are they spiking or not handling the transient load changes gracefully or something else to cause over voltage?
I think it's more of a heat dissipation issue which is why people are talking about turning down the voltage so there is less power/heat to dissipate in the voltage regulator. That's also why I'm curious about using just Red or Green or Blue to keep the current down to reduce power/heat dissipation in the regulator. To me, using just R, G, or B could have more of an effect (on required power dissipation, not your show) than lowering the voltage by ~16% (10v vs 12v).
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What about the Technicolor TM1804, does anyone know if they suffer the same problem?
It seems rdebolt has had bad problems with the TM1804 version of the Technicolor nodes(you should see his video). So much so that Ray is having to replace all his nodes with WS2811 versions. The WS2811 version is undergoing a design change to hopefully improve the problems they have been having with that version. It seems many people are trying to lower their voltage to around 8 volts to see if it will help with voltage regulators overheating on the WS2811 versions as a work around.
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What about the Technicolor TM1804, does anyone know if they suffer the same problem?
It seems rdebolt has had bad problems with the TM1804 version of the Technicolor nodes(you should see his video). So much so that Ray is having to replace all his nodes with WS2811 versions. The WS2811 version is undergoing a design change to hopefully improve the problems they have been having with that version. It seems many people are trying to lower their voltage to around 8 volts to see if it will help with voltage regulators overheating on the WS2811 versions as a work around.
rdebolt, can you post the link to that video?
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http://vimeo.com/79940671
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makes me want to cry... :(
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If I remember right his burn in went fine. It started after putting it outside and got worse each day. It appears Ray's "design engineer" made his own changes to Zack's original design.
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http://vimeo.com/79940671
That's about what my megatree looks like. The house on the other hand works one minute then is broken the next. Problems come and go with the house but it be good then go bad and turn around in another minute and be bad.
On a side note I built a new dmx dongle and used a passive 4 port to create a new programming station. I no longer have the problem of the first few nodes not working. Now number is actually number 1 (what a novel idea).
Joe
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The TC nodes are having an extreme failure period. The 2811s have a voltage regulator that is burning up because of high voltage. You will not be able to run Technicolor nodes with an ATX power supply! Actually probably won't be able to run them with any power supply for this year!
My lights are running about the same as yours. Can you give me a link to where you found this out. I can tell you in my case what is bad will turn around in the next minute and be working but There is always plenty of things wrong in my display.
Joe
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zwiller mentioned the other site in his post. You just have to spell out the initials.
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I was running my 100 count 2811 TC at 50% intensity. My burn in was just R, G or B.
No problems. Also ran my show for the past two days with no problem.
Tonight I noticed 10 lights at the end of one string are out. I think I will follow
the advice to just do R, G, or B in my show and at 50%. I was previously trying just to
avoid all white.
The other site mentions also possible issues with moisture. I have been getting lots of fog the last few nights.
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So the circuit/design is different between Ray's 2811 "regular" nodes and the TCs and the issue is only with TCs?
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Moisture doesn't appear to be the main problem however there is a process(can't remember what it is called) where the circuit board is sealed in a substance as a last defense against moisture before the black material mold is formed. And apparently the production people were not doing that process and Ray was pretty upset about it from what I read.
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Conformal coating IIRC. Starting to realize why my lights never shipped, Ray must be in damage control mode.
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So the circuit/design is different between Ray's 2811 "regular" nodes and the TCs and the issue is only with TCs?
You might read up on the other site if anyone has had trouble with the regular node shape. I only jumped over there to read up on the Technicolor strings after someone here mentioned a lot of people were having failures and were posting their findings over there. It must suck to design something and then the manufacturer make changes on their own and the inventor gets blamed for it. I still think the Technicolor design was very creative and once the circuit board problems get fixed it will be the node shape to have.
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What I realize is that I do not want to be a pioneer on all this new stuff. I'm thankful that you guys are willing to risk your show for this stuff and maybe someday I can use these new toys. Assuming I am still above ground.
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What I realize is that I do not want to be a pioneer on all this new stuff. I'm thankful that you guys are willing to risk your show for this stuff and maybe someday I can use these new toys. Assuming I am still above ground.
Patience my child, patience
WISE, WISE, WISE move Jim
I passed on the first generation of RGBs and then these came along and I figured they had the bugs worked out. WRONG
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Ok Sorry guys I have been slammed taking down all of my TC nodes and replacing with my old LEDs! I am way behind now on my display. I just skimmed this before posting so forgive me if something has be mentioned already!
1. My nodes were the 1804s... There is NO regulator in them yet I still had horrible issues as you have seen. Ray is going to replace all of my nodes with the resin filled "bullet" nodes. They will be 2811s.
2. Someone asked if they are working for anyone. The answer is yes the 5 volt TC stings are not having any failure issues. Anything 12 volt has been bad. I guess the first batch were not as bad, but all are having issues and that is why there is a redesign of the board that holds the LED and reg.
3. The reason that the ATX is bad (ONLY for Technicolors) is because of the output voltage is too high and cannot be turned down. They say that is what is taking out the regulators. I am using 8 ATX supplies to run my SSCs.
4. I have NO idea why mine went out....except maybe a bad batch of 1804s. Like I said mine do not have regulators in them. Maybe still too much heat, I'm not sure.
5. I did do a burn in on ALL of my nodes. Some as much as 3 days with no failures on burn in. Strange I know, but that was my experience.
It has made my year a very tough one to start, but I will say that at least Ray is going to replace all 65 strings of my nodes. I won't have them for this year, but at least I will be ahead of the game for next year..... hopefully.
Keith thanks for posting my video!
Roger
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What I realize is that I do not want to be a pioneer on all this new stuff. I'm thankful that you guys are willing to risk your show for this stuff and maybe someday I can use these new toys. Assuming I am still above ground.
LOL!!! Jim this has almost put me 6' under! <la..
Not really... Things will work out and I will still have a display, just not the one I imagined.
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Ok Sorry guys I have been slammed taking down all of my TC nodes and replacing with my old LEDs! I am way behind now on my display. I just skimmed this before posting so forgive me if something has be mentioned already!
1. My nodes were the 1804s... There is NO regulator in them yet I still had horrible issues as you have seen. Ray is going to replace all of my nodes with the resin filled "bullet" nodes. They will be 2811s.
2. Someone asked if they are working for anyone. The answer is yes the 5 volt TC stings are not having any failure issues. Anything 12 volt has been bad. I guess the first batch were not as bad, but all are having issues and that is why there is a redesign of the board that holds the LED and reg.
3. The reason that the ATX is bad (ONLY for Technicolors) is because of the output voltage is too high and cannot be turned down. They say that is what is taking out the regulators. I am using 8 ATX supplies to run my SSCs.
4. I have NO idea why mine went out....except maybe a bad batch of 1804s. Like I said mine do not have regulators in them. Maybe still too much heat, I'm not sure.
5. I did do a burn in on ALL of my nodes. Some as much as 3 days with no failures on burn in. Strange I know, but that was my experience.
It has made my year a very tough one to start, but I will say that at least Ray is going to replace all 65 strings of my nodes. I won't have them for this year, but at least I will be ahead of the game for next year..... hopefully.
Keith thanks for posting my video!
Roger
Thanks for the info. In my case I took all my extra Express boxes and used them elsewhere. So I have the old lights for the megatree but have nothing to drive them. I have 32 strings on a megatree and yesterday I turned off one of the zeus because not node would work.
I'm going to look at my power supplies and see if I can reduce the voltage but my guess is I will not be able to do anything about it. I'll also try reducing the demand on the RGBs and see if that helps.
Joe
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You have my sympathy. As someone who was cutting and splicing everyday back on the original ip66 nodes I feel your pain. Ray swapped all mine for the newly created ip68's after the season but I had to pay shipping back to China. I think it was in the 250-300 dollar range the cheapest I could send them. I haven't seen any speculation as to why the TM1804's were failing. Maybe the lack of conformal coating on the circuit board and maybe the black material of the node is not adhering well to the wiring between nodes.
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Jim, as usual, your posts are very wise. There IS a cost to be being on the bleeding edge. If we were running a couple of LE's we'd be making videos already (remember those days???). I think SS gear is high risk, high reward and I am the same as Jim and will always be one year behind (plus a few weeks for waiting on a shipment of Ray). My sympathies to all those affected.
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I have the 2811s. I found no conformal coating on any of the defective pieces. I had only one with a shorted input on the ic. They work good indoors.
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I have 4 stings of varying length of 2811 TC with no issues yet. They are driven with SSC v4 from a active hub. mostly using 1 color at a time and they were up since Halloween. I did not burn them in. I read on another site that hot swapping or plugging in or unplugging with the power on with 2811 is deadly for the 2811 model. Reducing the voltage will reduce the heat buildup issue.
Question, I have a Zeus 8 and would like to use a lower voltage PS and will the Zeus work with 7.5 VCD or 9 VCD?
If that will work, my run length from a central location of the Zeus / PS to the TC max length will be 25'. Would 16 or 14 gauge wire work? Max nodes is 73, min is 20.
Thanks,
Craig
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You have my sympathy. As someone who was cutting and splicing everyday back on the original ip66 nodes I feel your pain. Ray swapped all mine for the newly created ip68's after the season but I had to pay shipping back to China. I think it was in the 250-300 dollar range the cheapest I could send them. I haven't seen any speculation as to why the TM1804's were failing. Maybe the lack of conformal coating on the circuit board and maybe the black material of the node is not adhering well to the wiring between nodes.
Thanks Keith. I tried chasing the issue down. Spent over 3 days replacing bad nodes thinking that they could not ALL be bad. I was wrong! :P My issues are not water intrusion as at the time they were going bad we had no rain. Very cold temps, but no rain. I still think that some of my issues were outside temperature related, but I have no proof of that. It just seemed funny to me that indoors I had no issues, the second they hit my roof is when they started going bad.
What the real bummer is is that I have hours upon hours of ziptying each and every node to banding material! I even had my sons girl friends help out with that ugly task. Boy do I owe them some gratitude!
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My story is very much the same thing. They worked in the house but I will say I didn't give them that long of a burn in process. They were carefully prepared, in my case we added C7 covers to the megatree. They worked GREAT in the house, took them outside in 40-50 degree weather with no rain and things started to fall apart. I've placed MANY nodes, there was day I up on the roof in a 20 degree windy day changing the 2nd highest node on the house.
The kicker is roger has 1804 and I have 2811. My goal is to see what I can do to reduce the power going to these LEDs and see if I salvage some part of this year. I'm about to the point I'm just going to randomly twinkle what does work.
Joe
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What is the difference between the 1804s in the tc style and bullet style? I do see production line failures in ws2811s.
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I have one of those boards used in the TC WS2811 right in front of me. The board is about 1/2" x 1/2" so they must be using a different board for the bullet style LEDs.
My goal is cut away the plastics and verify EXACTLY what is in these LEDs. This way we know instead of guessing. I will say these are COMPLETELY enclosed in plastic. There is no air space inside.
Joe
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I have taken several apart. On the back side the wires are soldered on. The front side is where the 78l05 sot89 regulator, 2 smd caps, and ws2811 smd is mounted. The led is soldered thru hole. I have found some of the boards are twisted in the body. I use wood burning knife to cut open the pixel.
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I have taken several apart. On the back side the wires are soldered on. The front side is where the 78l05 sot89 regulator, 2 smd caps, and ws2811 smd is mounted. The led is soldered thru hole. I have found some of the boards are twisted in the body. I use wood burning knife to cut open the pixel.
Eric, My days of being a hardware engineer ended more years ago then I care to think and my eyes are not what they were but I finished cutting the plastic case on a WS2811 TC node apart and then ohmed it out and here is what I found.
1st -- I couldn't read the chips but counts above are correct and I believe the other chip is a 7805 like you stated. I was able to verify the +12v and ground do you into the 7805 and the output from the 7805 does go to pin 8 of the 2811. The 5V also goes to one of the pins on the LED. So this little 7805 is providing the power to the 2811 AND the LED itself. NOWHERE on this chip do I see the 12volts being used. So if I saw it correctly it makes all the sense in the world to try and drop the voltage to these RGBs. OF course one needs to keep in mind that there is a volt drop as you go down the string of LEDs. So this needs to be keep in mind.
For me my next step is to look at what I can do next. My first thought is to use the 5volt supply from the ATX power supply to power my lights. I have nothing but a pile of pure !@#$#T%#$% in my megatree so if I could get 10% working I would have a LOT. (You know its bad when you joke with the wife and tell to just pretend the tree is covered in snow.
Joe
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So it makes sense to reduce voltage on these strings. You also mentioned you have to worry about voltage drop.
I have the 100 count 2811 TC strings and it was already determined previously injection was needed. It would
be interesting for someone to determine how much injection is needed at some specified lower voltage level.
In the mean time I have been using 50% intensity and trying to avoid all white. I had one bad node yesterday
out of 1600 run over a few days along with my burn-in time previously. Now I avoid using any white at all.
Any comments on here on performing injection and lowering voltage versus lowered intensity.
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So it makes sense to reduce voltage on these strings. You also mentioned you have to worry about voltage drop.
I have the 100 count 2811 TC strings and it was already determined previously injection was needed. It would
be interesting for someone to determine how much injection is needed at some specified lower voltage level.
In the mean time I have been using 50% intensity and trying to avoid all white. I had one bad node yesterday
out of 1600 run over a few days along with my burn-in time previously. Now I avoid using any white at all.
Any comments on here on performing injection and lowering voltage versus lowered intensity.
Here is what is know
1) The heat generated by components in these nodes is generating heat and killing itself.
2) Lower power consumption by these components will reduce the heat.
not rocket science but those are the know facts
So how do we reduce heat
1) we turn down how hard we drive these RGBs (I looked at 50% last night and it is very acceptable, so my target is to reduce everything from 100% to 50%)
2) If we use a lower voltage instead of 12 volts it should have less power to deal with for each node. We know there is a 5 voltage regulator on each circuit board. From this point on I start guessing but my guess is we need to give each node about 6 volts so the node still functions. I'm not sure how much voltage drop we will see as we go further down the string of RGBs but from my point of view about 90% of my megatree is junk so if I made it a handful of node that progress (sad but true).
So here is what I'm going to try
1) I'm using LSP and have method for reducing my sequences from 100% to 50%. The method is not working completely yet but that is goal #1
2) I need to come up with a lower voltage to run these strings on. My current power supplies are not adjustable so I'm still looking for something in the 6-9 volt range.
So that is my current path to fixing this problem (more like a bunch of dead end roads).
Joe
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Thanks for the info.
I have adjustable power supplies but I don't know how
much I can go down. I may try a string tonight at 50% level and observe what
how much I can turn down the voltage for R, G, or B and observe dimming
as well as the voltage drop at the end of the string. I already know
that 50% white is dimmed a little with a 25% voltage drop at 12V.
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Thanks for the info.
I have adjustable power supplies but I don't know how
much I can go down. I may try a string tonight at 50% level and observe what
how much I can turn down the voltage for R, G, or B and observe dimming
as well as the voltage drop at the end of the string. I already know
that 50% white is dimmed a little with a 25% voltage drop at 12V.
I'm not sure how far down you can go with the voltage on the string before the string starts running into trouble but if you look at the power dissipation the LDO (voltage regulator) needs to do the formula is something like
Power - (Volt supplied to string - 5 volts) * LED current + voltage supplied to the string * current used by the LDO
The bottom line is this
1) Reduce the 12 volts and you'll reduce the heat generated by the node
2) reduce how hard you drive the LED and you'll reduce the heat generated by the node.
I've heard but have not confirmed reducing the 12 volts to 10 volts has made a lot of difference for many people. In my case most of my strings are under 50 LEDs and under 25'. At 25' the resistance in the wire is only 1/4 ohm so I might loose a volt along the way. So I'm trying to come up with 7-8 volts to drive my RGBs (but I have no idea how to generate it yet).
Joe
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So here is my plan to run 48-TM1804 100ct Technicolor strings off of 3 controllers... please shoot holes in it:
Repeat 48 times:
1) set buck converters to intended voltage (input=12v, output=8v)
2) connect +12v and GROUND wires from controller to buck converter input
3) connect buck converter output (+8v and GROUND) to string input
4) connect DATA-Out directly from controller to string's DATA-In
I'm inclined NOT to add power-injection.
I'm going to test this with my bench (adjustable) power supply.
I've not powered up any of the strings yet -- so, they are believed to be undamaged.
Thoughts?
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Reducing the voltage may not have much of a positive effect. The real issue is where is the heat coming from. If it is just the regulator, then dropping the voltage will do well, but if the heat is actually coming from the LED, then dropping the voltage does nothing. It seems to me that a good portion of the heat may be coming from the LED itself.
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Steve,
Both you and I have 2.5" spacing and thus a shorter cable length and thus less resistance according to Made2Rock.
But I suspect you will need to reduce intensity and/or colors to reduce the dimming effect with lower voltage.
Bill
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Steve,
Both you and I have 2.5" spacing and thus a shorter cable length and thus less resistance according to Made2Rock.
But I suspect you will need to reduce intensity and/or colors to reduce the dimming effect with lower voltage.
Bill
I was hoping to avoid taking drastic action with the sequencing... avoiding full-whites, keeping sequences short, forcing down intensity -- all seem very intrusive. But... maybe that is what is needed to get through this season. After that, I can bring things back up and have Ray deal with the consequences. <fp.
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Steve,
Both you and I have 2.5" spacing and thus a shorter cable length and thus less resistance according to Made2Rock.
But I suspect you will need to reduce intensity and/or colors to reduce the dimming effect with lower voltage.
Bill
I was hoping to avoid taking drastic action with the sequencing... avoiding full-whites, keeping sequences short, forcing down intensity -- all seem very intrusive. But... maybe that is what is needed to get through this season. After that, I can bring things back up and have Ray deal with the consequences. <fp.
If you have the 12 volt LEDs you also have a 5 v regulator on each node. Think of it this way
you have a 1" water main going to each node on the string. At each node it connects to a 1/4" water line and that is what goes into the chip. SO your 12 volts is reduced to 5 volts before it does ANYTHING. The reason why the strings are designed to use 12 volts is eliminate the problem of voltage drop at the end of the string. The problem came along with the design of the node not properly dissipating the heat generated.
So in Steve's case reducing the voltage going to the RGBs to 8 volts is a really good idea and should do wonders to reduce the heat generated by the node.
Look at this formula
Power = (Volt supplied to string - 5 volts) * LED current + voltage supplied to the string * current used by the LDO
and I've attached the paper that talks about Thermal considerations if you really want to get into it.
The one thing I am not sure about is just connecting the data in line straight to the string. I'm thinking the data stream will be a 12v signal and the string will be working on 8 volts. So you may want to toss a 1K resistor in line with it for starters. Hopefully someone else gave you give you better advice on this but the 1k resistor should keep you safe.
Joe
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Here is what I have seen running the Technicolor nodes with the 1804 chips. I ordered 3 - 100 node Technicolor strings with custom 20cm spacing from Ray on October 7th and received them on November 18th. I cut the strings into 50 node sections and installed waterproof connectors. I am running them off SSC v4 and 12v 30 amp adjustable power supplies. The output voltage was set at 12.4 volts when these nodes were burned in, inside the house. I ran them inside for about 8 hours with no problems. I put some of them up on the house using gutter clips and ran my show for 2 nights, about 3 hours per night. Weather was dry, 30 to 40 degrees here in Michigan. On the third night, as soon as the show was started, all of the Technicolor strings had nodes that would not turn on, stayed all white, and/or stayed on as soon as they were powered up. We did have a light mist of rain during the day and temps were 40 to 45. I have several of the 1804 based nodes listed in the wiki that are working with no problems. I do have about half the Technicolor nodes indoors still and plan to run these hard for a couple of days. I know this has been a little long winded but I just want to get this info out in case it helps someone else having similar problems.
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Here is what I have seen running the Technicolor nodes with the 1804 chips. I ordered 3 - 100 node Technicolor strings with custom 20cm spacing from Ray on October 7th and received them on November 18th. I cut the strings into 50 node sections and installed waterproof connectors. I am running them off SSC v4 and 12v 30 amp adjustable power supplies. The output voltage was set at 12.4 volts when these nodes were burned in, inside the house. I ran them inside for about 8 hours with no problems. I put some of them up on the house using gutter clips and ran my show for 2 nights, about 3 hours per night. Weather was dry, 30 to 40 degrees here in Michigan. On the third night, as soon as the show was started, all of the Technicolor strings had nodes that would not turn on, stayed all white, and/or stayed on as soon as they were powered up. We did have a light mist of rain during the day and temps were 40 to 45. I have several of the 1804 based nodes listed in the wiki that are working with no problems. I do have about half the Technicolor nodes indoors still and plan to run these hard for a couple of days. I know this has been a little long winded but I just want to get this info out in case it helps someone else having similar problems.
That seems to be the common story. It makes no sense that they work ok till taken outside and hung up. I was careful yet they developed problems shortly after being turned out. I would suggest it you can turn the voltage down that you do so.
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Bring the string that is effected back inside and test again. 78L05 regulator needs 7v min to operate. It is not an low dropout regulator. It is the 100ma version of the 78xx series. Check the data sheets. I get .66 watt draw on one node.
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I am wondering why the 1804 Technicolor nodes would require a voltage regulator and the 1804 nodes from the wiki do not? Is there a way of telling if these nodes have a 1804 chip or a WS2811 chip in them?
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If it is the regulator that is failing, how are the rest of the nodes behind the failed node working at all?
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If it is the regulator that is failing, how are the rest of the nodes behind the failed node working at all?
The 12 volt line is jumper by a trace right across the board and it is the input to the 78l05. It is the output from the 78l05 that drives the node.
So as long as the circuit board itself is there you'll have the connection for the +12v and the ground side. It is the Data in line that gets passed into the chip and the chip produces the data out and that is what gets passed onto the next node.
Joe
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One strange thing is that some of the nodes after the failing nodes seem to be
properly reacting to the data being sent to them.
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One strange thing is that some of the nodes after the failing nodes seem to be properly reacting to the data being sent to them.
could data in and out be bridged on the bad node?
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Maybe the part of the chip that repeats the data is still working but the part that powers the led is not?
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If it is the regulator that is failing, how are the rest of the nodes behind the failed node working at all?
The 12 volt line is jumper by a trace right across the board and it is the input to the 78l05. It is the output from the 78l05 that drives the node.
So as long as the circuit board itself is there you'll have the connection for the +12v and the ground side. It is the Data in line that gets passed into the chip and the chip produces the data out and that is what gets passed onto the next node.
Joe
I understand that BUT the data does NOT work that way. If a node is dead, the signal is not regenerated to the following nodes so even though they may be getting power, they should not be gettng any data and at best, they should either all be out or just random flahes.
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One strange thing is that some of the nodes after the failing nodes seem to be properly reacting to the data being sent to them.
This is my point. If nodes past the failure are still operating, it appears tha the chip is still getting power and still processing data.
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Maybe the part of the chip that repeats the data is still working but the part that powers the led is not?
If that is the case, then it can't be the regulator since the regulator powers both the chip and the LED.
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One strange thing is that some of the nodes after the failing nodes seem to be properly reacting to the data being sent to them.
I will reconfirm this when I get home by doing some color washs, then I will yank them down and try them in the house after they warm up.
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Sorry for the misinformation, but when I tested the Technicolor nodes this evening, the nodes after the first node showing issues were NOT responding to the sequence I was running. some were lighting up white and some were other colors.
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Sorry for the misinformation, but when I tested the Technicolor nodes this evening, the nodes after the first node showing issues were NOT responding to the sequence I was running. some were lighting up white and some were other colors.
This is what happened to me. For me the bad node actually was working and responding to the sequence but it was
passing bad or no data to the following nodes. If I put in a bridge on the data around the bad node the nodes after it lit up normally.
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In case anyone is interested. I tried to lower the voltage on my 2811 100-count TC along with different
intensity. My power supply only goes down to 10.11 volt. Connection was pixelnet USB to 4-port
passive hub to moded SSC2. I used the test RGB background mode in xlights.
Lead length is 6' and spacing between nodes from pixel bulb center to center is about 2.6".
No other injection is performed on the string.
In all of the tests the dimming was not very apparent for 1 and 2 color tests.
I did not perform enough tests at white due to concerns for my string.
The following are the voltage reduction measured at the end of the string:
1 color 50% intensity tests:
PS voltage reduction(%)
12.1v 15.0
11.01v 16.6
10.11v 18.1
2 color 50% intensity tests:
12.1v 25.4
11.01v 28.2
10.11v 30.5
3 color 50% intensity tests:
12.1v did not test
11.01v 37.8
10.11v not sure. lights were blinking
3 color 25% intensity tests:
12.1 not tested
11.01v 20.5
10.11v 22.4
Bill
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Very interesting... thanks for sharing the info.
The blinking on 3-color 50%... I assume that this "error condition" was caused by the lower voltage.
This makes me think that 8v would have even more problems under the combined stress of more colors and lower voltage... would you agree?
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Very interesting... thanks for sharing the info.
The blinking on 3-color 50%... I assume that this "error condition" was caused by the lower voltage.
This makes me think that 8v would have even more problems under the combined stress of more colors and lower voltage... would you agree?
Yes I think the blinking at the end of the string was because it was getting too low of a voltage. I quickly
changed the intensity to a lower value
As for 8v, yes I would think you would have more problems at the end of your string mainly due not enough voltage available.
If you do not want to reduce intensity or colors then injection may be the answer.
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Thanks dduck, I played with adding a few diodes on the 12v line of my power supply last night to reduce the voltage. It work but I was having trouble with the lights. In my case I was using a zeus and this zeus has been trouble from the beginning so I am out of spare equipment so I'll need to pull some of the boxes back in and use them.
I've attached pictures of the Megatree to show more of what the problem is. To answer the questions ahead of time Yes the tree should be a solid color and yes the equipment driving it is all turned on. This is the best this can be
Joe
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This really makes me worried when I decide to further expand my nodes. These things really seem to be a disaster and from what I'm reading, what you order is not necessarily what you are going to get.
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I have a little test setup that I'll put to work this weekend. It is a Pixelnet dongle and a 4 port passive hub which I will power by a power supply that I can now get down to around 9 volts. I only have one test string but I'll pass on what I come up with.
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Thanks dduck, I played with adding a few diodes on the 12v line of my power supply last night to reduce the voltage. It work but I was having trouble with the lights. In my case I was using a zeus and this zeus has been trouble from the beginning so I am out of spare equipment so I'll need to pull some of the boxes back in and use them.
I've attached pictures of the Megatree to show more of what the problem is. To answer the questions ahead of time Yes the tree should be a solid color and yes the equipment driving it is all turned on. This is the best this can be
Joe
So I assume the trouble lights were from previous damage and not by reducing the voltage? If I see the pictures
well enough this looks like what happened to my bad node. After my bad node the lights did not blink, some red, some white, some blank.
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Anyone find a way to lower intensity in LSP for a whole controller/string? I seem to only see it channel by channel.
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Had some rain come through. These strings have been out for a couple of weeks now. Had a node out. Everything else not functioning. The resistance of the data in line to ground is about 14k. The resistance of the data line out is about 18k. This is measured on either side of the node. I feel production line quality is the source of this problem. I am going to wait until it drys up again to test resistance.
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Anyone find a way to lower intensity in LSP for a whole controller/string? I seem to only see it channel by channel.
I'm working on a method but so far it has problems.
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just a thought to try.
With a new sequence if you change the one channel down, and then can you use the copy and paste with one effect on that line, does it bring the CHANNEL intensity with it, or only the sequence data?
e.g. put one off a cell or two out, then click the channel header to select the entire line, copy it, and then go paste it into another channel and see if the intensity you lowered came into that channel as well or only the sequence itself.
obviously won't help much with an existing sequence, but could be nice for anything you do going forward if it works.
Alan
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Good idea but not at the scale of this year's show.
My problem is the size of all of this. I have about 8,000 channels across 86 different controls and all the sequencing is already done. Mike from LSP has given me an unsupported method of doing this. I am able to make changes to the sequence this way but so far have not been able to use the sequence after the changes. I'm hoping this weekend to look into this problem.
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Good idea but not at the scale of this year's show.
My problem is the size of all of this. I have about 8,000 channels across 86 different controls and all the sequencing is already done. Mike from LSP has given me an unsupported method of doing this. I am able to make changes to the sequence this way but so far have not been able to use the sequence after the changes. I'm hoping this weekend to look into this problem.
what is your final format? xlights seq file? conductor seq file?
I'm thinking of some code that that could take a known file format and alter the intensities -- either limiting each channel value to a max value (0-255) or applying a percentage to the existing value (ie. 50% of whatever is present in the original file).
the "filter" could be selective by channel range(s).
just haven't started it yet... ideally, the format would be close to the final playable file, so that it can be uniformly applied regardless of the original source (ie. lsp or LOR imported into nutcracker)
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look into macro software for your pc. You may be able to record the keystrokes, mouse clicks into a macro and allow it to run on it's own going down all your channels one at a time as fast as the computer can process it. Has nothing to do with LSP macros.
also does the intensity of a channel survive bring put into a library and then pulled back out of the library to overwrite an existing controller? Wondering if you could change a "master" controller, save it, bring it out and map existing channels into it?
Maybe another quiver in your arsenal as well.
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I'm thinking of some code that that could take a known file format and alter the intensities -- either limiting each channel value to a max value (0-255) or applying a percentage to the existing value (ie. 50% of whatever is present in the original file).
the "filter" could be selective by channel range(s).
just haven't started it yet... ideally, the format would be close to the final playable file, so that it can be uniformly applied regardless of the original source (ie. lsp or LOR imported into nutcracker)
A Sed function might be able to do that for you, just get the correct regex and index in and turn it loose.
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I'm thinking of some code that that could take a known file format and alter the intensities -- either limiting each channel value to a max value (0-255) or applying a percentage to the existing value (ie. 50% of whatever is present in the original file).
the "filter" could be selective by channel range(s).
just haven't started it yet... ideally, the format would be close to the final playable file, so that it can be uniformly applied regardless of the original source (ie. lsp or LOR imported into nutcracker)
A Sed function might be able to do that for you, just get the correct regex and index in and turn it loose.
The problem right now with editing the file is now to put a LSP file back together. I know how to break it apart and make the changes I just don't know how to put it back together. I'm sure it is a simple little step somewhere. Mike at LSP is helping me so I'm sure he has that answer.
My plans are to reduce the voltage on the 12v line and see how my one remaining full working string behaves. I have modified my power supply so the 12 volts is down around 9. I used a Zeus last night but I'm beginning to think one of the PICs has a problem because it has acted dead 3 times and 3 times I have reprogrammed every PIC and got it working only to have it turn around an go belly up.
So tonight I'll take a brand new pixelnet dongle hook it up to a passive 4 port hub powered by 9v power supply and then I'll use a SSCv4 at 9v and see how it works.
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Good idea but not at the scale of this year's show.
My problem is the size of all of this. I have about 8,000 channels across 86 different controls and all the sequencing is already done. Mike from LSP has given me an unsupported method of doing this. I am able to make changes to the sequence this way but so far have not been able to use the sequence after the changes. I'm hoping this weekend to look into this problem.
what is your final format? xlights seq file? conductor seq file?
I'm thinking of some code that that could take a known file format and alter the intensities -- either limiting each channel value to a max value (0-255) or applying a percentage to the existing value (ie. 50% of whatever is present in the original file).
the "filter" could be selective by channel range(s).
just haven't started it yet... ideally, the format would be close to the final playable file, so that it can be uniformly applied regardless of the original source (ie. lsp or LOR imported into nutcracker)
I use LSP but the scheduler was having trouble with the DMX output not working so I now take the LSP sequences export them into a conductor .seq file and then use xlights to convert it to a .xseq file. I have so many problems this year and that throws data out there so it is close enough for me.
It would be nice to have utility to be able to reduce the intensity of channels. In my case I keep universe 1 for DMX and above that for RGBs. So I have data across 3 universes.
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A conductor file is easy to tweak this way. The whole file is levels so write a script to open the file read each byte and lower it by the % you want the write it back out.
Sent from my Charge by Tapatalk
RJ
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A conductor file is easy to tweak this way. The whole file is levels so write a script to open the file read each byte and lower it by the % you want the write it back out.
Sent from my Charge by Tapatalk
RJ
Thanks RJ, I just may use that
UPDATE
I found a bad PIC on the Zeus so the Zeus has been fixed and is back to operating 100% and will be using in testing
I had added 4 diodes to the output of my 12 volt power supply and reduced the output down to 8.8 volts. I have hook up the Zeus to this 8.8 volts and connect my only working string of 100 WS2811 TC. This string has been running the x-lights mixed color test pattern for the last hour without a single hiccup.
My input voltage to the Zeus & string is 8.8 volts. I am measuring 5.2-5.4 volts are the end of the string of 100. This string has the default spacing of about 4 1/2".
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A conductor file is easy to tweak this way. The whole file is levels so write a script to open the file read each byte and lower it by the % you want the write it back out.
Sent from my Charge by Tapatalk
RJ
I've completed a .seq translation tool. I'm looking at the .xseq capability now.
The tool allows a range of channels to be specified, and scaling and/or limit (max) to be applied to each channel in that range.
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A conductor file is easy to tweak this way. The whole file is levels so write a script to open the file read each byte and lower it by the % you want the write it back out.
Sent from my Charge by Tapatalk
RJ
I've completed a .seq translation tool. I'm looking at the .xseq capability now.
The tool allows a range of channels to be specified, and scaling and/or limit (max) to be applied to each channel in that range.
Steve, Buddy...... Christmas is coming.... Did you know it better to give then receive.....
I've never been one to stand in the way of someone doing a give thing so it you feel the need I would be more than happy to receive a copy of that editor.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Joe
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A conductor file is easy to tweak this way. The whole file is levels so write a script to open the file read each byte and lower it by the % you want the write it back out.
Sent from my Charge by Tapatalk
RJ
I've completed a .seq translation tool. I'm looking at the .xseq capability now.
The tool allows a range of channels to be specified, and scaling and/or limit (max) to be applied to each channel in that range.
Steve, Buddy...... Christmas is coming.... Did you know it better to give then receive.....
I've never been one to stand in the way of someone doing a give thing so it you feel the need I would be more than happy to receive a copy of that editor.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Joe
:)
This is just the first iteration.
It supports Conductor .seq files only for now... (channels 1-16384)
In many cases within xLights, you can convert from one format to .seq -- use this tool -- and then from .seq to another format.
Let me know if it isn't accessible:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l0ycfu4qya0sbxb/UJWG6XA0HB (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l0ycfu4qya0sbxb/UJWG6XA0HB)
The script uses Perl. You can use one of many free Perl tools out there.
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Steve, I got it and many thanks. I'll play with tomorrow.
I may actually get a chance at putting this show back on the road this weekend. By adding a couple of full wave bridges (You can only use 2 of the diodes) I can drop the voltage down and I'll use your program to cut my levels by 50% I should be ready to attempt to fix up some of these strings.
BTW: I ran the xlights A-B-C-All test and with 8.8 volts into the string I had about 4.4-4.5 volts at the end of a 100 count string during the white part of the test. The LEDs never stopped working and I ran it for about half an hour like that. I will admit I never expected it to run that good with that low a voltage.
Joe
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Steve, I got it and many thanks. I'll play with tomorrow.
I may actually get a chance at putting this show back on the road this weekend. By adding a couple of full wave bridges (You can only use 2 of the diodes) I can drop the voltage down and I'll use your program to cut my levels by 50% I should be ready to attempt to fix up some of these strings.
BTW: I ran the xlights A-B-C-All test and with 8.8 volts into the string I had about 4.4-4.5 volts at the end of a 100 count string during the white part of the test. The LEDs never stopped working and I ran it for about half an hour like that. I will admit I never expected it to run that good with that low a voltage.
Joe
I just received my buck converters earlier tonight... I plan to play with them tomorrow.
I would like to get more info on the diode design... where are they placed? what sizes?
Thanks!
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You know, I wonder if they built these strings to be 5 volt by accident instead of the 12 volt design. Maybe that is what the problem is. That is why the LED only uses 5 volts and teh regulators are burning at 12 V and the lights are working great at just under 5 volts. Just a thought.
Steve
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That's actually what was in the back of my mind the whole time - what's the difference between the 12V and 5V versions of the TCs? Is the 5V versions dropped down to a 3.3V regulator? Or the same 7805?
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Steve, I got it and many thanks. I'll play with tomorrow.
I may actually get a chance at putting this show back on the road this weekend. By adding a couple of full wave bridges (You can only use 2 of the diodes) I can drop the voltage down and I'll use your program to cut my levels by 50% I should be ready to attempt to fix up some of these strings.
BTW: I ran the xlights A-B-C-All test and with 8.8 volts into the string I had about 4.4-4.5 volts at the end of a 100 count string during the white part of the test. The LEDs never stopped working and I ran it for about half an hour like that. I will admit I never expected it to run that good with that low a voltage.
Joe
From what you tested on voltage I became more courageous. I left on my lights a little
longer at 10.11V at 50% white. They are not actually blinking but rather at the end of
the strings dimming up and down. The voltage at the end of the string is also
is rolling up and down from 6.09v to 6.12v that seems to go along with the dimming.
Then I went to 100% intensity full white and the lights looked good. No dimming up and down.
The following is my update for my numbers but at 100% intensity which seems to be in line with yours.
#Color Voltage drop
1 31.6
2 46.3
3 51.7
Also note this test was with an SSCv4. For some reason I get slightly less voltage drop with this SSC than
an SSCv3.
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He connected the diodes in series, between the positive of the supply and the positive of the Zeus. The cathodes on all are pointing to the Zeus. Each one drops about 0.7V. Just remember they must be able to handle the full current of the strips and will dissipate 0.7V x the current in power, so they may need a heatsink. That's why he used the two diodes in series in a bridge rectifier module; it's easy to get high current and to mount to a heatsink.
This is better than just using a series resistor since the drop across a diode is (mostly) constant, while the drop across a resistor depends on the current (Ohm's law). Of course, the switching buck converter is a better solution, but the diodes are an easy thing to try.
/mike
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Ok, what's a switching buck converter? Is that a brand name of a power supply, a type of power supply? A design of power supply?
Curious minds want to know if this might be a better power solution long term than atx supplies. Thought next years order to Ray may include some big behind Meanwell units that I can vary the power down a bit.
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He connected the diodes in series, between the positive of the supply and the positive of the Zeus. The cathodes on all are pointing to the Zeus. Each one drops about 0.7V. Just remember they must be able to handle the full current of the strips and will dissipate 0.7V x the current in power, so they may need a heatsink. That's why he used the two diodes in series in a bridge rectifier module; it's easy to get high current and to mount to a heatsink.
This is better than just using a series resistor since the drop across a diode is (mostly) constant, while the drop across a resistor depends on the current (Ohm's law). Of course, the switching buck converter is a better solution, but the diodes are an easy thing to try.
/mike
Bingo, give the man a cigar he is completely right.
A SILCON diode will drop about .7 volts in the forward direction it is called the forward voltage drop. Next problem is how to do this.
1) single diodes are actually a problem on where to mount them and cost almost what a full wave bridge does. A full wave bridge comes in nice little package that can be mounted on the side of the power supply. You CAN NOT USE ALL 4 DIODES IN THE BRIDGE. You can only use 2 of the diodes so to get a reasonable voltage drop you can put 4 diodes in series and get a little over 3 volts dropped.
So I decided to BUTCHER (you will have to butcher you cables to do this) my power supplies and put these diodes in. I've attached a pic.
Now for power dissipation I have something like 10 amps average going thru these and it'll be 1.4 volt drop across each bridge. So each bridge is going to have to dissipate about 14 watts and a 2nd one is right next door to it so in that little area It'll be 28 watts. I might get away with it BUT I REALLY WOULDN'T RECOMMEND DOING THIS.
I believe Mike talked about a heat sink and I believe one should be used but right now I'm just trying to get every thing working.
My connections are as follows for the bridge.
I bring in the 12 volts to one of the AC sides of the bridge, Then I jumper the + side to the - side and get my output from the other AC side. I then BUTCHER my cables and ran the 12 volts into this mess and pulled the 9 volts out from it.
NOTE: The big 24 pin connector also has 2 12 volt lines going into it so you have to cut those and cut the other 12 volt lines and run your 9 volt lines into them. You also have watch the amount of current you are running on these wires.
MY SETUP IS FOR TEST!!!!!!! AND ONLY RUNS 1 STRING OF LIGHTS. So do not think that little wire will work for 20 amps ( you will melt the wire ).
I got my bridge at radio shack simply because I needed them for testing. They are rated at 25 amps and have a forward voltage drop of 1.7 volts. I am seeing about 3.2 volts across the pair of bridges. NOTE: You only use 2 diodes at any time in a full wave bridge so its forward voltage drop is what you can expect so when it states a 1.7 volt drop that is for both diodes and like I saw 3.2 volts across 2 bridges gives you 1.6 volts across each one. So you can expect to see what the forward voltage drop is.
NOW FOR THE PUREST
A diode does have resistance and this resistance will cause a change in voltage drop with a change in current. I've seem a couple tens of volt change in my testing with only one string. My option is there is a regulator on the chip I'll let it deal with these variation, besides my lights are junk any fluctuation in brightness is a huge improvement over not working. So I DON'T CARE and I don't think it will matter.
Hope this helps and I wouldn't recommend it unless you have some tech background to understand the variables not addressed above.
Joe
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A buck converter is a DC to DC converter which is in a way a fancy regulator. The primary advantage to them is they are able to drop voltage without wasting energy or creating excess heat. The down side is they tend to get big when they are designed to work with high current demands.
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The "Dimmer" tool for xseq (xLights) raw files is now complete:
SeqXlater-xseq.pl
The conductor file version was also updated -- it had a problem where the channel number comparison was off by one.
SeqXlater-seq.pl
Both are found here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l0ycfu4qya0sbxb/UJWG6XA0HB (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l0ycfu4qya0sbxb/UJWG6XA0HB)
Note: I found it necessary to do the xLights file format because it can deal with more than 4x4096 universes. Conductor format is limited to 16384 channels because Conductor uses multiple units to handle every new group of 4 universes.
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Status update: I went ahead and changed my mega-tree to 10.1V and kept my show at
50% intensity with no whites. Everything was going okay. Then I started to get a misty
light rain. A bad node showed up and lights after it where white. So I wanted to see if
by powering down the power supplies then powering them up after a short waiting period
if they would turn the all white nodes to off. Nope... At least 3 more bad nodes showed up
on other strings and some were near the start of the string :'(
So I'm thinking it had to do with the rain. I'm not powering these up again till it is sunny.
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I am beginning to think in quality control testing that instead of soaking them in a bucket of water, they should test them with a wind machine and fire hose.
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I my r&d, I found no conformal coating on the pcb and wire. Measure the resistance on the data and gnd wires and see what the value is. The normal value should be the high megaohm. I plan on testing some of my modded nodes to see how they hold up. I would like to get hold of some of the final prototypes for analysis.
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I am curious as to how the water is getting inside in the first place. Maybe the black material is not bonding to the wire jacket or the led and needs some other material?
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Sorry, fellows I didn't go the bleeding edge, i thought WS2811 would be bleeding edge, but those of you who have a string that fritzes out with a misty rain, what about drying them back out, making sure they are working, spraying the nodes and entry points with some corrosion x which should keep the water from contacting whatever small spot it's finding.
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The "Dimmer" tool for xseq (xLights) raw files is now complete:
SeqXlater-xseq.pl
The conductor file version was also updated -- it had a problem where the channel number comparison was off by one.
SeqXlater-seq.pl
Both are found here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l0ycfu4qya0sbxb/UJWG6XA0HB (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/l0ycfu4qya0sbxb/UJWG6XA0HB)
Note: I found it necessary to do the xLights file format because it can deal with more than 4x4096 universes. Conductor format is limited to 16384 channels because Conductor uses multiple units to handle every new group of 4 universes.
Got them, Thanks Steve
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Back in the day when the original ip66 nodes came out, I tried hairdryers and such and in almost all cases the nodes wouldn't start working again. So I replaced them. I went through about 70 nodes that season doing repairs.
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Back in the day when the original ip66 nodes came out, I tried hairdryers and such and in almost all cases the nodes wouldn't start working again. So I replaced them. I went through about 70 nodes that season doing repairs.
Even after being in rice for a week, they would not come back alive?
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I never tried rice. Just hairdryer and indoors a week. They had already been soaked in watered down plastidip before they ever were set up outdoors that year. I had one replacement string of the newly created ip68 that went the rest of the season without a failure so I made a deal with Ray to send all the rest of the ip66 to him and he sent new ip68 after the season. But I had to pay the return shipping to China. Boy that was expensive.
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I my r&d, I found no conformal coating on the pcb and wire. Measure the resistance on the data and gnd wires and see what the value is. The normal value should be the high megaohm. I plan on testing some of my modded nodes to see how they hold up. I would like to get hold of some of the final prototypes for analysis.
Just checked with Ray. This was his response on my problems:
very sorry for the problem.
yes,please adjust the 12v power supply to 10v around to reduce the heat.
i checked your order, all of your order has been made with conformal coating, so please no worry about the moisture problems.
anyway,there would be some failed nodes, we could not ensure 100% working,hope you understand
FYI I received my TC's mid November.
My plan is to:
1) dry out these strings
2) check the resistance.
3) replace the bad nodes.
4) keep my voltage at 10V, intensity at 50%
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I was so pleased (cough) with the performance of the megatree I took it down.
Ray has so far failed to stand by his product which he has admitted to being defective. I guess this is the chance you take dealing with him and I like many others have been burnt.
Reducing the voltage will help reduce the amount of power you are asking the TC node to dissipate. You can also find a utility to reduce the intensity of the LED created by Steve Gase. I would strongly recommend using that. From my testing you can reduce the intensity by 50% and it will still bright enough. Together this may help these !@#$@$^% nodes to survive.
Joe
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I have made a number of orders with Ray over the last couple of years and have not had any problems with him. I think I would rephrase your statement to be "I guess this is the chance you take dealing with new unproven technology". I'm an old fart and my motto is that you should never buy version 1 of most products. In my life I have seen more new products fail in their early deliveries than succeed. new products always seem to have great promise, but ..... You pay your money you take your chances. Just my well seasoned opinion.
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I have made a number of orders with Ray over the last couple of years and have not had any problems with him. I think I would rephrase your statement to be "I guess this is the chance you take dealing with new unproven technology". I'm an old fart and my motto is that you should never buy version 1 of most products. In my life I have seen more new products fail in their early deliveries than succeed. new products always seem to have great promise, but ..... You pay your money you take your chances. Just my well seasoned opinion.
well, I don't see these as version 1.
the injection-molded casing solution was based on 2 past generations (the commonly-deiscussed IP66 and IP68 nodes)... it specifically was intended to solve all the past issues.
the use of WS2811 was intended to leverage the success of a commonly-used, and now more-standard chip, already used successfully by many other strings.
the vendor has been doing this product for years, and for the most part a known and trusted entity.
the use of TM1804 chips was a move to reduce the risk even further -- risk, not from the chips, but risk due to the newness of using SSCs with WS2811.
EVERYTHING in this product was intended to use proven, successful techniques and materials to create a product that would withstand additional years of use -- beyond the IP68 product.
The testing by Zach with freezing, with submersion, etc. provided the basic validation. Early testing of Ray's WS2811 strings by RJ sealed it.
So... there was definitely an understanding that this was a final, ready for anything product. We were charged for a production product, and not given a discount to try samples in a "beta" test.
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Update...
I still don't have my tree up. I am sure that I am being too methodical for the time left in this season, but I am trying to avoid any short-cuts that might make matters worse.
I received my buck converters over the weekend, and I did some testing with both WS2811 (50ct) and TM1804 (100ct) strings.
Inside my shop I have set the buck converters to 8.5v and I've run the lights at 50% intensity and they look pretty good at all (50%) white.
I am slowly building (50) buck-converter-pigtails and tuning them into the 8.5v range.
I have altered all sequences to be pre-dimmed for the megatree, so that when I connect the tree I will have everything ready. I have made the dimming step part of my procedure... (1) NC to .xseq file, (2) dim the tree lights, (3) convert to controller file format.
Once all pigtails are ready I will resume my assembly of strings onto EMT.
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The construction of the prototype strings might be different than the production strings. Changes could have been made to reduce cost or reduce production times. This could have happened during production. Conformal coating process has a cost and time to complete.
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I have made a number of orders with Ray over the last couple of years and have not had any problems with him. I think I would rephrase your statement to be "I guess this is the chance you take dealing with new unproven technology". I'm an old fart and my motto is that you should never buy version 1 of most products. In my life I have seen more new products fail in their early deliveries than succeed. new products always seem to have great promise, but ..... You pay your money you take your chances. Just my well seasoned opinion.
well, I don't see these as version 1.
the injection-molded casing solution was based on 2 past generations (the commonly-deiscussed IP66 and IP68 nodes)... it specifically was intended to solve all the past issues.
the use of WS2811 was intended to leverage the success of a commonly-used, and now more-standard chip, already used successfully by many other strings.
the vendor has been doing this product for years, and for the most part a known and trusted entity.
the use of TM1804 chips was a move to reduce the risk even further -- risk, not from the chips, but risk due to the newness of using SSCs with WS2811.
EVERYTHING in this product was intended to use proven, successful techniques and materials to create a product that would withstand additional years of use -- beyond the IP68 product.
The testing by Zach with freezing, with submersion, etc. provided the basic validation. Early testing of Ray's WS2811 strings by RJ sealed it.
So... there was definitely an understanding that this was a final, ready for anything product. We were charged for a production product, and not given a discount to try samples in a "beta" test.
Exactly. In fact I didn't get any RGBs last year because they were in my opinion still working out the bugs. This is the new generation
Joe
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Which is why I waited yet another year. Ray is a good guy but he really needs to crack down on his suppliers to get this right. I don't mind paying a few more cents per node to be sure that they actually work. Having to drop the voltage and run them at 50% output to hopefully prevent them from failing is completely unacceptable and him just saying I'm sorry isn't any better.
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Exactly. In fact I didn't get any RGBs last year because they were in my opinion still working out the bugs. This is the new generation
Joe
I didn't post to pick on you guys, I posted to defend Ray. A new product is a new product even if it is built from a kluge of older products. This is a 1st generation product made from older components in a new form factor that looked very good. But to blame Ray for the failures that he personally did not cause does not help solve the problems and blames the very person that will help to solve the problem in the future. Take out your frustrations on the product and not the man. Yes someone in manufacturing probably caused at least some if not all of the issues, but we do not know who that person is or who he works for. You can't blame a car dealer for a manufacturer's engineering problem or an incompetent employee on the assembly line. I'm sure that Ray is just as frustrated by this issue as everyone else is.
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Ray,
There is a lot of counterdicting information in the boards about the Technicolor strings and their problems.
Could you answer the following questions?
1) Are the TM1804 strings using a higher voltage, like the WS2811?
2) Will reducing intensity help avoid the issues?
I am just now getting ready to put up the 50 TM1804 strings, but if I can tweak something first to avoid problems, I'd like to do that now rather than destroying pixels and ruining the strings.
Any advice?
Thanks,
Steve
Dear Steve,
very sorry for the delay reply.
1: tm1804 node only consume about 0.3W,but the 12v ws2811 NODE consume about 0.6w,because these is a LDO on the pcb, that is why the 12v ws2811 technicolor met a heat problem, i will re-design the pcb , the new pcb will come out next week.
2: please do not let the tm1804 nodes work all the time,24hours a day,please only let it work in the night. and adjust the power to 11.2v around from 12v.
3: if the whold string not work, please cut off the first node to try again,because the first one already is easily burnt.
thanks and best regards
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Hi Steve,
Does this also apply (lowering the voltage) to the non Technicolor Strings that have the TM1804 IC?
Thanks
Rick
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Hi Steve,
Does this also apply (lowering the voltage) to the non Technicolor Strings that have the TM1804 IC?
Thanks
Rick
My questions were wrt TC, and I think that is how ray replied.
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The regular tm1804 smart strings are .3w per node. If the technicolor tm1804 pixels are failing, something else is causing the failure. I would like to see some of the failed 1804 techni nodes. We are running the regular 1804 nodes at 12v. What is the difference?
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Initially I received one 100ct TM1804 string that I plugged in and it failed at pixel #19. I also received 2 50ct WS2811 strings that had no problems. All 3 were part of a much larger order that didn't ship for another month... I have no data on putting any of these strings outside -- they were only used for bench testing.
I could send the one bad pixel to you... but it might be better to see if I have additional failures after my 8.5v and 50% intensity is applied to the more recent strings. the string that I received 2-3 months ago may tell us nothing.
i removed that pixel, btw, and the string worked fine after the fix.
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I say put them outside and test again. Wait for the weather to get bad. I ordered some uv dye to see if there is any penetration into the node. I took some pics using my usb microscope of some of my defective nodes. Some pics of some of my pixels. http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems (http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems)
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My testing of the ws2811 was not technicolor nodes and it was just a sample that ray sent me to test on a SSC. They worked fine. But they were never ptu in the weather.
RJ
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I say put them outside and test again. Wait for the weather to get bad. I ordered some uv dye to see if there is any penetration into the node. I took some pics using my usb microscope of some of my defective nodes. Some pics of some of my pixels. http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems (http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems)
Looks like no coating on board, and they got too hot.
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OK, so I took the plunge.
Just adding a data point for people.
I took my tree out of my garage tonight and set it outside. (8) 46-count 12V WS2811 Technicolor strands folded over. I had one bad node out of the box which was repaired prior to going live. I haven't been running them white much but have been running them at full voltage during the 24 hour or so I burned them in a couple weeks ago and again for 4-5 hours last week after mounting them on EMT.
I used Steve's perl script to reduce the technicolor channels in my .xseq files to 60% and also installed buck converters after the SSC using 3-core pigtails. These are on an Active Hub w/ SSC v4. I've set the buck converters to 8.0 volts. I did not do any testing on the voltage at the end of the strand since I sealed the ends up after cutting the 50-count strings down to 46 to fit them on the 10-foot EMT conduit. I have not seen any color degredation, so I think the voltage drop is low enough on the 20-foot long 46-count strand for me to be OK running at 8V.
I am using the C9 covers and I also put a bead of silicone around the place on each pixel where the wire enters the "top". I did this to the front and back of the wire so there is a 360 degree bead of silicone around it. I'm not using a lot of whites in my sequences, mainly red/green/blue, but some fades or mixes.
These were ordered early October and shipped on November 24th.
I'll report back if/when I have any issues.
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I am using lower voltage (10-11v) and always about 50% intensity. I
avoid white. Last night I turned back on my lights and a fourth of my strings
had bad pixels. Last night the weather was cold and windy with rather high humidity.
Other strings started to go bad right in front of my eyes. I touched the bad nodes
and they were not hot. If anything the bulb was slightly warm. So I now have over
half of my strings with bad nodes that I pulled into my garage for further
inspection. I hope to open some of them up to see what is going on.
Before going back out after repair I plan to apply silicon or plastic dip as others have tried.
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I am getting many many failures. I fix 1 and another pops up on the same string. I took apart a
couple. The first one would light but would not pass data to the following nodes.
The second one would not light and it would pass garbage data.
Please tell me this is moisture damage and no conformal coating is applied!
Ray told me that conformal coating WAS applied to my order.
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I do not see any coating. Unless the coating is so thin the hot molten injected plastic removed it. Production line failure all over. Have any of the nodes recovered after being inside for a while. Did You have the c9 covers? Here is the link for more pics. http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems (http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems)
I have a string with 17 out of 50 defects with 2 nodes that are going to be further evaluated. This string had c9 covers on.
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I did not have covers on them.
After bringing them in I turned on the string and all lights turned on. Then
in about 3 min. it looked like I had two bad nodes. This same thing happened
to me outside. When I first turned on the lights all of my strings lit up. Then
bad nodes started showing up after those same strings showing bad in a previous
night.
While working on this string other bad nodes were showing up. So I don't know if
they were failing while I was working on them in the Garage or if perhaps
they are borderline flaky.
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Measure the resistance on the data line to either 12v or gnd to see what the resistance is. It should be in the megaohm range.
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I must have to admit that I have not checked resistance values on components much.
So this is what I found depending upon wire lead direction using my multimeter.
GND DATA value
+ - 6700
- + 11000
12V DATA value
- + 1480 at 2000K scale
+ - shows 1
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On the "dead" pixels, any of you bypassed the various pieces on the boards to see if it really was the 7805 or the ldo causing the issue? I assume you can get at the LED itself and put some voltage on it, and put some 5v on the output leeg of the 7805 to see what happens?
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I guess the real question is "what difference does it make?". They are not servicable units. Any way you want to spin it, these are defective junk and Ray has to take some ownership of this.
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Before going back out after repair I plan to apply silicon or plastic dip as others have tried.
Better make it good.
Count me among the fallen. I set out my technicolor tree only 3 days ago. Tonight I brought it back into the garage. I put silicon 360 degrees around the wire going in the 'top' of the pixel as they were oriented using about a tube and a half for only 368 pixels. Today it started to rain. I went outside and had 3 pixels lit up even though no show was running. So, I started up a playlist and 3 strings showed failures. I left it playing for a while, flash forward a couple hours and now I'm now at 5 out of 8 strands with total failures and others flickering white occasionally.
Closer inspection of the silicon confirms what another user posted that it didn't stick to the wires well once out in the weather. They were fine until the rain hit. Waterabsorbant != Waterproof. I have the C9 covers on them and am running at 8.0 Volts.
I brought them all back into the garage and will see if they dry out.
Is there anyone who has bought these via AliExpress who can start leaving negative feedback on these things to help prevent other users from getting duped into buying them before these issues are fixed?
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Do you have any moisture inside the c9 covers? Mine had and they were hanging down.
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Ray told me last night that he can't see "how water can come inside the pcb. I guess the problem is it got through a splice".
I had only 1 splice on a single string. He mentioned he has a new improved 12v ws2811 pcb. But for the moisture
issue he either is not telling me what he knows or has no idea what the problem is.
As for me I have given up on these strings for this year.
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Do any of you plan to pursue getting them refunded or replaced by Ray? I've got 300 Technicolor 1804s that have been giving me big issues too.
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While Ray may be willing to do this, you will need to return the defective product to him and as others have said, that can get expensive.
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Back in Jan of 2012 it cost me 172.00 to ship back a little over 1000 of then ip66 nodes. At first he complained he couldn't replace 1000 nodes or "he would die". Later he agreed to.
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Do any of you plan to pursue getting them refunded or replaced by Ray?
I emailed him last night to see what he says.
Back in Jan of 2012 it cost me 172.00 to ship back a little over 1000 of then ip66 nodes. At first he complained he couldn't replace 1000 nodes or "he would die". Later he agreed to.
At an estimated 1.4LB each for my eight 50-count strands, the DHL web price would be $172 for me to ship back $240 worth of lights (8x $30). For these, I shouldn't have to pay to return faulty strings, I can't use them at 12V and can't use them outside, and that's the point I'll make with him.
Ray told me last night that he can't see "how water can come inside the pcb. I guess the problem is it got through a splice".
No splices for me either except one at the very end of one strand where a node was bad out of the box. Mine are strapped to EMT conduit so there isn't any flexing of the cables going on other than unwrapping them and strapping them on. I think that he is not wanting to admit to too many people what is going on with them. If he truly doesn't know then I wouldn't touch the v2 version either.
Do you have any moisture inside the c9 covers? Mine had and they were hanging down.
No moisture that I could see in any. I took off some and looked and it looked dry around the LED.
One thing I did notice with the C9 covers is that they seemed to 'intercept' more rain water than a typical node since they are larger size. Water is dripping off the C9's onto the wire and next pixel below.
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I added a few more pics. http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems (http://s577.photobucket.com/user/Hauvega/slideshow/Pixel%20problems)
The black corrosion around the solder joints. I am cleaning them up. Then I put some thinned conformal coating (MG 4223)has uv dye in it. After it dries, I then mix up some clear epoxy and fill the hole. I am testing a repaired string that I have already done it to see if it works.
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Curious, if you took a 1" pex tube, if it's big enough, and put a string of pixels in it, put it out into the weather with a pair of 90's point down on each end so NO water could reach those pixels at all, if they would stay lit properly in the pex tubing?
To me, besides condensation inside the plastic coating itself, that would be a way to completely eliminate external water as the source.
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Curious, if you took a 1" pex tube, if it's big enough, and put a string of pixels in it, put it out into the weather with a pair of 90's point down on each end so NO water could reach those pixels at all, if they would stay lit properly in the pex tubing?
Might have a chance if they were brand new and if you ran on 8V and if there was no condensation that could form in the tube. You might have to actually seal the tube in a dry environment to keep condensation from forming. I wouldn't give it much of a chance if the pixels are already flakey due to power or water.
Mine ran perfect both inside the house and out in the yard for 40 hours or so total time, until it started to rain and within a short amount of time I had randomly lit pixels.
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I agree with you CaptainMurdoch. We have got too much damage.
Now if anyone is interested for new strings. They do not fit in 1" PEX.
You would need the cheaper HDPE pipe in a bigger size.
One note though is they fit inside the thin wall 1" PVC pipe used for SSC's.
Bill
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I would not trust the redesigned strings unless they are tested thoroughly. That includes dis assembly of a redesigned node brand new and nodes exposed to the weather for a period of time. I still would like to get some of the failed tm1804 tc's.
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Sigh... <fp.
Big sigh...
After building 50 buck converter pigtails and assembling my TC TM1804 conduit segments, I started doing my testing using 8.5V and 50% intensity. The 3 first strings failed before even getting to the yard. I did not apply 12V to the lights before doing the test.
I don't see much of a point in replacing pixels or building out the remaining 47 strings based on everything I've heard.
So, I'm throwing in the towel.
I've just sent Ray my request for refund/replacement.
I have 9 strings of IP68 128ct strings... I'll start working on them
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Bummer ... I can feel you pain.
I've been noticing that my 3 pin quick connects from last year vs what I got this year ... Totally different .... Look the same, but the threads in the new ones are total garbage compared to last years quick,connectors. Plus I've had a bunch with internal shorts ... Now I protest for that. I think ray may be outsourcing some products because they are no longer exactly the same quality as they once were.
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Sorry to hear that Steve. I'm planning on soldering up my pigtails this week and retrying my mega tree over the weekend with 9v buck converters....
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I've been zip-tying old IP68 strings onto conduit all day. I'm orienting each pixel as ChrisatPSU showed in his pictures. So far, not a single pixel is bad.
but, my fingers are so sore and my hands need a big soaking.
...and little progress so far. :(
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In my opinion, If the 1804tc's have the same circuit design as the bullet 1804's. Then the tc's work at 12v with no problem. The problem is then in the pcb design, the injection molded process, lack of conformal coatings, and possible shortcuts for costs and/or production time. So far the ones I have failed have been due to poor pcb design ie the data pcb pad is too close to the 12v pad. Any moisture that is inside the pixel causes a semi conductive path that takes out the 2811 chip in the previous and dead pixel. I have one string that has this problem. I replaced 6 chips already. Unless someone does extensive testing on the new design pixels, including dis assembly to see if can have any issues, I would not buy any of them.
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I removed the plastic from one of the nodes and showed it to a friend who is an aeronautical engineer. I explained the reason these nodes were failing and I explained the "improvement" planned for them. In his opinion it will help the overheating BUT when asked if he felt it would reduce the temp by 10% we didn't think it would help that much.
So unless they are planning on reducing the total wattage of each node the next revision to these strings will most likely suffer the same as these.
Joe
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After running 100 of these on a Megatree star since December 1st. 50 went crazy last night. Just a matter of time I guess. I didn't change anything, I just let them run, be damned! I'll order and put standard nodes up there for next year.
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The moisture must be getting to one of them.
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Quick question? Is there a 5v version of these? I got some from the owner and the box says 5 v only but on the power wires it is marked with a tag 12v
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I understand that Ray put a variety of chips into the TC nodes, 5v, 12v, TM1804, WS2811, WS2801... they are working on a new design that will put the chip type on the casing.
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I understand that Ray put a variety of chips into the TC nodes, 5v, 12v, TM1804, WS2811, WS2801... they are working on a new design that will put the chip type on the casing.
I don't know about the casing but he is working on a new design to address the heat problems. He will be putting the power regulator on the opposite side on the circuit board while adding more copper. The idea here is get the heat away from the chip and help distribute the heat. I'm not sure how much help that will be BUT I believe he is also reducing the power going the to LED itself. This would be a big help.
I've been an engineer all my life and have on the all sides of problem designs. The bottom line is we are all human and we all make mistakes. I've been talking with Ray on the problems I have been having and it is still a work in progress but once it comes full circle I will add my comments here and create another thread.
Joe
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I've just sent Ray my request for refund/replacement.
Steve, any luck with this? I'm debating if it's even going to be worth my trouble to try.
There is a Technicolor v2 that's supposed to be coming out that addresses issues. I'm still going to be weary though after all the issues I and many others had with Technicolor v1s.
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I asked for, and received a refund.
Ray is still A-O-K in my book! :)
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Did you have to pay shipping back to Ray? I did on the original ip66 nodes a few years ago.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2.
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Not answering for Steve, but Ray told me he trashed all his strings in the garbage and he was still working on the new ones with a few proofs out for testing. He also mentioned better to make orders after Chinese New Year from the 25th of January to the 10th of February, long holiday he is taking.
Alan
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Not answering for Steve, but Ray told me he trashed all his strings in the garbage and he was still working on the new ones with a few proofs out for testing. He also mentioned better to make orders after Chinese New Year from the 25th of January to the 10th of February, long holiday he is taking.
Alan
Chinese New Year is a MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR holiday to the Chinese (I've worked in Hong Kong and see it in action).
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So what is the conclusion on these technicolor WS2811 strings?
How many people are having problems?
Are they bad design or manufacturing?
Or is this a normal % of manufacturing failure?
Have they been fixed or not?
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There is too much confusion around these lights to get a good understanding.
I am seeing people refer to a v1 and v2 of the string being out there... I was aware of only a v1 that was released. there were different factory runs, and that might have made a difference in quality... but all of this is unknown.
a v2 with 5050 LEDs was discussed for this year.
the v1 strings are being reworked now with Timon and others involved in the redesign and testing. the first runs are being tested now, but there are still questions about the plastic being used.
the v1 strings had different results based on user, but overall it was suspect enough that I wouldn't trust them. if you have a batch of them -- maybe you'll be successful with them, but most likely you will not.
the best thing IMO is for the new versions to be "rebranded", and let the "Technicolor" name die. Otherwise we will continue to be confused over this mess.
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So what is the conclusion on these technicolor WS2811 strings?
How many people are having problems?
Are they bad design or manufacturing?
Or is this a normal % of manufacturing failure?
Have they been fixed or not?
I would ask Ray for your money back. I have not heard anyone say they didn't have any problems. Of the new design they are testing now only time will tell. I probably wouldn't trust the new design until it makes it through a Christmas season without problems.
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Attention just got a email back from Ray. He has made improvements to the technicolor strings.
Not sure when he made these changes. But I can see some are having problems.
So I take it this more then normal manufacture defect percent problems.
He has offered to replace them and send the new ones to test. Some one with better testing equipment may want to contact him and take him up on it.
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Did turning down the intensity switch for the strings enable the technicolor strings to hold 100 to 128 nodes?
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Turning down the intensity did not help the failure rate much. If at all.
Sent from my Thunderbolt using Tapatalk 2.
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Did turning down the intensity help with how many nodes per string you can use?
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Did turning down the intensity help with how many nodes per string you can use?
I took 2 actions before applying power to the strings for the first time:
1) adjusted intensity to 50% or less
2) added buck converters to reduce the controller's 12v output to be 8.5v
Each of the strings experienced failures -- from pixel #8, through pixel #50.
After each of 5 strings having similar results, I threw in the towel.
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A lot of reviews on Ray's site. All having no problems with the news ones.
Hopefully this is a good sign. The creator of the Technicolor strings is testing them now.
He is not happy with what happened.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100nodes-DC12V-WS2811-LED-technicolor-pixel/922162404.html
By theory should taking down the intensity and voltage allow more nodes to be used?
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These are not the new ones. He just sent out some samples this week for testing. I think Steve at first didn't see an issue until he put them outside and in real world conditions. The good reviews were probably indoors with very little testing. Everybody including me assumed they would work okay based upon the videos of the creator as he was designing them. And it is also not his fault the way they were manufactured was not the same as his prototypes were manufactured. I would not trust them until someone says they have survived outdoor in the cold in high winds and multiple rainstorms.
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These are not the new ones. He just sent out some samples this week for testing. I think Steve at first didn't see an issue until he put them outside and in real world conditions. The good reviews were probably indoors with very little testing. Everybody including me assumed they would work okay based upon the videos of the creator as he was designing them. And it is also not his fault the way they were manufactured was not the same as his prototypes were manufactured. I would not trust them until someone says they have survived outdoor in the cold in high winds and multiple rainstorms.
My tests will include strapping them to the car and running through 3 different drive-through car washes.
Wind, water, stress on the wires.
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Or you could bring them to Oklahoma :)
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<la.. Now that's a funny.
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These are not the new ones. He just sent out some samples this week for testing. I think Steve at first didn't see an issue until he put them outside and in real world conditions. The good reviews were probably indoors with very little testing. Everybody including me assumed they would work okay based upon the videos of the creator as he was designing them. And it is also not his fault the way they were manufactured was not the same as his prototypes were manufactured. I would not trust them until someone says they have survived outdoor in the cold in high winds and multiple rainstorms.
I would like to see the original prototypes to see how they were constructed. Did the prototypes have conformal coating? Some of the new sample strings need to be taken apart to see how they are constructed. Apply power and leave outside for year for acclimation. Then at the end of the test cycle disassemble some of the nodes to see the effects on the pcb and wiring.
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I know this thread has been quiet the last few months (a good thing i think!!) and I really don't want to bring up the "bad" memories with it, but I am because I'm going through a similar situation now with a batch of flex strips I bought from Ray. I have strips failing in very random spots for no real reason. I'm going to try to touch up all the resistors and see if it was just bad assembly, but I'm fearful that the same issue is at hand but now with the strips. I'm 99% sure Ray has a new design now for the strips so this issue likely won't be lasting for too long, but wanted to ask - what was the actual part(s) that were failing and was it due to overheating?
let me know if this was sorted out.
Cheers!
Ryan
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I think that you are comparing apples to baseballs here and what was happening there probably has little to do with what is happening with your strips. IIRC, the primary issue was that the LEDs in the Technicolor nodes were being driven too hard in order to get that extra lumen of light output which caused excessive failures. What exactly is happening with your light strips?
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tbone is completely right. The problem was due to the amount of power the Technicolor nodes were using. This caused the node to heat up and the heat would kill the node. I've been in the middle of move for some time now but I do believe Ray got rid of all the bad nodes and redesigned the strings. I had a HIGH failure rate, documented it and presented what I found to Ray and Ray did stand behind his product. So this is purely a problem with that generation of Technicolor nodes and not the new ones. So unless your strings are from last year and are Technicolor strings this does not apply.
Hope that helps
Joe
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Technicolor pixels had two primary issues I believe:
1 - overheating voltage regulator
2 - water intrusion
Several of us ran our technicolor strings at around 8 volts to try to get around the first issue and that helped with the heat but then we were hit by the the water intrusion issue.
I doubt your issues are related.
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OK - thanks all. What's happening with my strips (and Ray has replaced 6 of them so far - no questions asked - just I bought a lot of 25 of them at once) is the strip will work up to a certain point and then just stop the rest of the string. I have voltage at the end of the string in the 10ish range so something with the data is getting mixed up. I think what my issue is because I have a few LEDs that have just one color out is that there are some bad resistors or they weren't assembled well.
Everywhere you see no zip tie or black tape, those are the spots so far where the strips have failed on me. The new strips Ray sent me unfortunately don't line up properly. I know in the end this will be an awesome looking matrix and I've had a couple of times all the strips working, but recently i've been bumed out getting things repaired only to have another strip fail a week later.
I had remembered the technicolor lights had some high failure rates and I was just wondering if there were shared components in these (I bought my lights from Ray probably back in Feb).
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Ryan's issue is not technicolor related and really should be in a new thread and not resurrect this very old one that may confuse newcomers.
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I had no issues running my techniclors (first version) last year indoors and even outdoors until we had our first rain. After the moisture is when all sorts of issues/outages happened. Made a few splices that got everything functional again and the lights ran great for a week (at 12V) until it rained/snowed again.
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Ryan's issue is not technicolor related and really should be in a new thread and not resurrect this very old one that may confuse newcomers.
Based on the responses received I agree and will!! When I posted though, I was having very similar symptoms - lights failing at a very high rate of occurrence and I was looking at anything that might be similar. I think I'm leaning towards an issue with bad assembly on a certain run of lights. I'll fire up a new thread once I get my helping hands out tonight and start doing some additional tests (i also got some flux to touch up on some resistors to see if the problem is where I think it is).
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I have been following this for well since the thread started, I think like most of you this form factor is a great one to use in construction but as most have experienced if at the end of the day the nodes don't work who cares about the physical form factor. I cannot even begin to feel the pain some of you have been through... Now the question, as I'm confused, is there a new V2 of this string out or are we dealing with a mod 1 rev 46? of the original version 1.
If a V2 is out what rays store link and what is the experience you pros have had with them so far.... I see Steve did the car wash, but my assumptions were that was still V1.
Would like to bring us current to what is real today and what is still Vapor ware.
Thanks.....
Curt
<res.
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I started this tread last xmas when my show went down the toilet and found others where having the same problems. It was sometime around the end of the year when Ray was redesigning the circuit boards that were being used in the Technicolor nodes. I saw the prints on the circuit board and one thing he was doing is to increase the amount of copper between the chips and LED. His goal in doing this was to help dissipate the heat. I do not know what else was changed but I do know Ray was taking steps to correct the problem. Ray was also taking steps to not drive the LED so hard (This will reduce the heat)
The above is fact, the rest is assumptions
Ray had tossed the remaining Technicolor strings and was building new strings. Those new strings should now be out there and they should be an improvement. I do not know what steps Ray did to reduce the power dissipated by the LED and chip.
THIS THREAD IS FOR THOSE TECHNICOLOR STRINGS BUILT IN 2013.
I would suggest a new thread be created asking for feedback on Technicolor strings built in 2014.
These should be considered 2 COMPLETELY different things.
In working with Ray I found him to be very busy and slow to answer sometimes BUT he also wants to build a good RGB string and he was taking steps to do just that.
If there are any questions out there about his integrity or intent let me put it this way I will do business with him again.
Joe