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Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: chrisatpsu on January 08, 2012,

Title: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 08, 2012,
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182063 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182063)

can the smart string hub handle 108Amps @12v???

it's a Jonnyguru Recommended Power Supply!!!
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: RJ on January 09, 2012,
5amp fuses X 16 outputs  = 80 amps is the max you should be able to pull on the unit. but excess power supply is not a problem so if you have the $$$$ go for it!

RJ
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 09, 2012,
I was just commenting b/c i found that to be the biggest psu that newegg had to offer.

108Amps, still at 12v, but can you imagine that in a computer power supply?
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Steve Gase on January 09, 2012,
it will work.
I'd suggest that you invest some money in having a backup PSU, i had one die during burn-in.

108amps x 12v = 1296 watts available.
normally planning for 80% is good (takes into account cheap PSUs that don't deliver as advertised...) but let's say you want to be super-safe and plan 60%... that is 777 watts.

At the extreme you'd need .356 watts per smart string node, and 16 strings, and the max of 128 nodes per string:  729 watts.
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 09, 2012,
108amps @ 12volts = 10.8 amps @ 120volts, and that's not counting the rest of the circuitry, or heat disipation!
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: zwiller on January 09, 2012,
Hope you don't mind me going a little off topic, but since you guys are talking power supplies, I would really like to know if you SS pros would approve this one?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171060 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171060)

If I am running the numbers right I could power 943 nodes.  (35*12)*.8/.356.   I know this is not the most robust ps but if I really get into SS I will eventually use 2 hub setups.

BTW 108amps?!  That's a beast.
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Steve Gase on January 09, 2012,
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Hope you don't mind me going a little off topic, but since you guys are talking power supplies, I would really like to know if you SS pros would approve this one?  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171060 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171060)

If I am running the numbers right I could power 943 nodes.  (35*12)*.8/.356.   I know this is not the most robust ps but if I really get into SS I will eventually use 2 hub setups.

BTW 108amps?!  That's a beast.

It is single rail... good.
It supplies 35A of 12v... so 420 watts.  And you only want to plan for 80% of that or 336 watts.

You need .356 for each node... so 943.  right.

If you used all 16 strings, that is 58 nodes a string. 
If you used 128 nodes/string (max) that would be 7 strings.

Your numbers are good, but this power supply will only give you the ability to meet 46% of the hub's capacity, and that also chews up 46% of your channels.  943/2048.

It'll work, but someday you might wish it had more oomph.  Or you might forget its limits and add too many at some point and cause to to choke under the weight.

But it will work.


REVISED:  with channel limit of 4096 and 3 colors per pixel there are only 1365 pixels available on an active hub.  So the 943

420watts in your PSU is smaller than the max usable power (calculated below) of 620watts.  So you are only powering this hub at 67% of what it could do.

This also matches up to the 943 of 1365 possible pixels:  69%... the numbers are slightly off by not considering the amps drawn by the SSC.
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: zwiller on January 09, 2012,
Thanks Steve!  I am just starting to understand the SS technology.  Match the power supply with the hub's capacity... 

All good points.  Maybe I will not fully populate the hub so I don't choke the supply. 
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: peteandvanessa on January 10, 2012,
Just to be clear (for me)

Whilst the Hub can handle -> 16 strings, and the max of 128 nodes per string (e.g. 16 strings x 128 nodes x 3 Led channels = 6144

I believe the active hub can address a maximum of 4096 nodes correct?

So to address all 6144 channels you would need two active hubs

Just want to be 100% clear on this
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Steve Gase on January 10, 2012,
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Just to be clear (for me)

Whilst the Hub can handle -> 16 strings, and the max of 128 nodes per string (e.g. 16 strings x 128 nodes x 3 Led channels = 6144

I believe the active hub can address a maximum of 4096 nodes correct?

So to address all 6144 channels you would need two active hubs

Just want to be 100% clear on this
Right.  And that is how I came to my string length used on my megatree...   4096 channels / 3 colors / 16 strings = 85 nodes.  I used 3 active hubs to get 40 strings, and had the option of adding 8 more.

It would be possible to fit more strings on a hub by using a splitter... but doing so would add additional load onto the cat5 carrying power off of the active hub, and I'm sure that RJ would discourage that.
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Steve Gase on January 10, 2012,
So, without extra tricks... what is the largest usable power supply?

Using the .356 watts per smart string pixel...
Assuming the worst-case of all 16 jacks having a SSC that consumes .05 amps...
And using only 80% of power...


4096 max channels / 3 channels per node = 1365 pixels
1365 pixels * .356 watts = 486 12V watts... 

Plus...  16 SSCs x .05 amps x 12V = 10 watts

(486 watts + 10 watts) / 80% = 620 watts from 52 amps 12V on a single rail.   <== max usable watts for Active Hub
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Titus on January 10, 2012,
One thing to check when buying is how much of the power goes to +12.  I have seen power supplies with a wattage ratting that would imply it is enough, but the actual amps available to +12 doesn't cut it.  It sounds to me like the best way to make sure you have maximum capacity available is to get a power supply rated at 50 amps to +12.

Another confusing piece for me is in the wiki Smart Strings Power Requirements doc where it states "Lets say you want to run a full hub of full Smart Strings with 128 nodes. Then you would require at a minimum: 16 x 3.8475 amps = 61.56 amps".  being thaty the hub can't actually address all the nodes, the statement in the doc is misleading. 
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Steve Gase on January 10, 2012,
BUT, THERE'S A GOTCHA that I keep forgetting.

You could be running 16 strings of 128 pixels in "string mode".  That would only need 16x3=48 channels.  But it would need (16 x 128 x .356 watts) with an additional (16 x .05 amps).

So that configuration would need (at 80%)
(729 watts + 10 watts) / 80% = 924 watts ... or a single rail 77 amps (at 12V)
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: Titus on January 10, 2012,
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BUT, THERE'S A GOTCHA that I keep forgetting.

You could be running 16 strings of 128 pixels in "string mode".  That would only need 16x3=48 channels.  But it would need (16 x 128 x .356 watts) with an additional (16 x .05 amps).

So that configuration would need (at 80%)
(729 watts + 10 watts) / 80% = 924 watts ... or a single rail 77 amps (at 12V)

True, but what fun would that be?   <la..



Looks like $55.99 buys a single rail with 54A going to +12 right now at Newegg.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817822010
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: jeffcoast on January 10, 2012,
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BUT, THERE'S A GOTCHA that I keep forgetting.

You could be running 16 strings of 128 pixels in "string mode".  That would only need 16x3=48 channels.  But it would need (16 x 128 x .356 watts) with an additional (16 x .05 amps).

So that configuration would need (at 80%)
(729 watts + 10 watts) / 80% = 924 watts ... or a single rail 77 amps (at 12V)

If you just want to run all in string mode, then just get dumb rgb strings for cheaper and run those, much cheaper.
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 10, 2012,
i hope you all found the humor in my post, i wasn't actually going to buy it, just amazed at how much power can be packed into a computer PSU
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: zwiller on January 11, 2012,
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If you just want to run all in string mode, then just get dumb rgb strings for cheaper and run those, much cheaper.

I never found the dumb strings.  Can you post a link? 

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i hope you all found the humor in my post, i wasn't actually going to buy it, just amazed at how much power can be packed into a computer PSU


I found the humor.  Scary to think about what kind of machine needs that kind of power supply... 
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: jeffcoast on January 11, 2012,
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If you just want to run all in string mode, then just get dumb rgb strings for cheaper and run those, much cheaper.

I never found the dumb strings.  Can you post a link? 

Something like this would be dumb. http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-431022423/DC12V-input-12mm-through-hole-LED-channel-letter-100pcs-a-string.html
Or this for modules. http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-291745854/Waterproof-RGB-LED-LED-Module-3-pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-LED.html
there is no control chip on the node itself and relies on the voltage coming in to turn it on and off.
Title: Re: can the Active Hub handle this?
Post by: zwiller on January 12, 2012,
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If you just want to run all in string mode, then just get dumb rgb strings for cheaper and run those, much cheaper.

I never found the dumb strings.  Can you post a link? 

Something like this would be dumb. http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-431022423/DC12V-input-12mm-through-hole-LED-channel-letter-100pcs-a-string.html
Or this for modules. http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-291745854/Waterproof-RGB-LED-LED-Module-3-pcs-5050-SMD-RGB-LED.html
there is no control chip on the node itself and relies on the voltage coming in to turn it on and off.

Thanks Jeff.  Man, I was hoping they would be cheaper. 

To all who are interested, today's Newegg email has that beast of a power supply above on sale for $149 free shipping  :o