DiyLightAnimation
Software => Light Show Pro => Topic started by: Corey872 on August 19, 2011,
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Starting some basic experimenting on 2.0 and running into some issues - though I'd post up and see if anyone else is seeing the same thing. This is running 1 SSC with a 120 LED flex strip on Win 7 x64 Home Premium, Core i7 processor, 2GB RAM. I start a simple animation sequence, load one Pixelnet controller and start trying some effects:
- If I choose 'twinkle' and try red, green, blue, etc - I do in fact get those color twinkles. If I try with what I would consider 'Halloween Orange' (135, 19, 0 in RGB) I actually get a mix of orange and green twinkles?
- If I try 'shimmer' in any color, I simply get that color with all LEDs blinking in unison on...off...on...off... at about a 1/2 second interval.
- When using a pixelnet controller, drawing twinkles or shimmers just show up as a solid bar of color on the channels, but using a DMX controller - even when viewed on the same screen - will draw the wavy lines or polka-dots for the effect.
- Is there any way to set the 'global' color on LSP When I play a video sequence (fire, for example) my nodes look more like 'lemon starburst explosion'. 'Video White' is more like 'Ice Blue' on the nodes. Ideally, I'd like to be able to tune the output to be a little more in line with what the video looks like on the monitor. I realize it won't be video quality, but a little closer would be nice.
Lastly, is it just me or does Vixen actually seem to have an advantage for the simple effects? I don't see how to make a random color sparkle at all in LSP, and I don't see any options (beyond intensity) for twinkle and shimmer (though admittedly I could easily be missing them) In vixen, it's pretty easy to set rate, duration, fade, etc.
Thanks for any additional input/discussion.
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In my limited experience using twinkle and shimmer under LSP 2.0 ... it appears that the twinkle and shimmer are basically as described and a bit quirky using rgb & pixelnet. I haven't tried using my LOR stuff, but would assume its fine there. I really don't use either effect much and would use even less if this problem remains.
I've also found that RGB SS Orange (esp.) and other colors do need some tweaking and probably vary a bit between type of smart string item a bit. I don't think thats a LSP issue, but just a color blend issue using RGB items in general. I think there is a way to tweak that color curve, or create custom colors to use (which show as expected) in LSP. For me, Orange looks a lot more like yellow. I think creating custom colors will likely be needed.
There is a way in LSP 2.0 to hold the last color (Or blend) used and then paint stuff using that. I think you have to fill in a cell (say with yellow), then use CNTL+Q then mouse click away ... and it'll stay yellow as you paint stuff (won't prompt for the color picker each time).
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Twinkle and Shimmer are right on the effects bar. If you want to make a ramp or fade twinkle or shimmer after putting the effect on the grid, you just have to right click using select on the effect ,click properties, choose ramp type and you will see the option to make the effect either twinkle or shimmer. Hope this helps. George
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I think we all know where the effects are in the program, but as the original posted said ... they don't seem to look quite right on certain RGB items via. pixelnet.
I know that you can tweak the effects in LSP under options -> configuration -> effect plugins ... so I haven't tried messing with those to see how they might help the twinkle or shimmer.
I noticed for example that under the shimmer effect, that there is a shimmer effect TYPE you can set.
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Sorry Taybrynn, I should have been more clear, I was responding to:
"Lastly, is it just me or does Vixen actually seem to have an advantage for the simple effects? I don't see how to make a random color sparkle at all in LSP, and I don't see any options (beyond intensity) for twinkle and shimmer (though admittedly I could easily be missing them) In vixen, it's pretty easy to set rate, duration, fade, etc.
Thanks for any additional input/discussion."
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Sorry for the confusion. Your tip was a great one.
Is there any way to make the shimmer or twinkle look more like a LOR shimmer or twinkle?
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Hmmm, I wonder if you imported an effect from an LOR sequence and pasted it in LSP if that would work? If you try it, could you let me know if it works? You could probably save it in your patterns as well. George
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LOR's twinkle and shimmer are hardware based and simply a command for the hardware to do it so there is really no way to import that from a LOR sequence into LSP or anything else.
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George - thanks for the additional input. I think I'm applying the effects correctly. I seem to get ramps and fades to work fine. It's the twinkle/shimmer where the gremlins hide.
taybrynn - I have seen the configuration>options location where you can put in parameters for twinkle/shimmer. I'm guessing this is a place to set the defaults? I believe the same parameters can be set with a right click on the effect which brings up the same parameters, type has a normal and a random option (guessing maybe 0 and 1 in the configuration>options settings) I've tried both options and they still don't help the issue.
Strikes me as strange that what is easy, simple, functional and has many options in Vixen still seems to be broken and limited in LSP.
I guess lacking any color correction in LSP, the best option seems to be to tweak the video in an editor, then load it back into LSP. I'm not trying to get perfect RGB compliance, just get things to look reasonably close. The nodes (at least in the flexible strips) seem to be very blue/green heavy. I seem to get close to a snow white at 255,208,107 and a bright orange around 255, 23,0. It would be nice to just take out some G/B overall, but I guess I can get the same effect by changing each video.
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From what I can tell shimmer and twinkle in LSP or Vixen are far less interesting tham what LOR can do.
I'm thinking thats just because LOR does it in hardware vs. software.
It appears that LSP and Vixen produce similar effects for twinkle and shimmer. I don't find Vixen a any more powerful than the other, just a little
easier to use at first.
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From what I can tell shimmer and twinkle in LSP or Vixen are far less interesting tham what LOR can do.
I'm thinking thats just because LOR does it in hardware vs. software.
It appears that LSP and Vixen produce similar effects for twinkle and shimmer. I don't find Vixen a any more powerful than the other, just a little
easier to use at first.
I believe what you are refering to in respect to shimmer or twinkle is the rate of twinkle and shimmer. As mentioned in this thread, LOR's shimmer and fade rates are /greatly/ limited as they are set in the hardware and short of flashing your firmware, if you are running the LOR protocol, you have only one choice. Running the DMX protocol (even on an LOR controller) allows you to have complete control over the rate and style of shimmer and twinkle IF the software allows for that level of customization. LSP? Yes, it allows you complete customization of shimmer and twinkle rates (including ramping/fading shimmers and twinkles) through the calibration function in each channel.
When you say easier to use, I'd say that is opinion. Two of LSP's greatest hurtles - it isn't "like" all the other sequencing application UI's and that LSP is very complex...because it just does a LOT of things. I'd expect S3 and Vixen 3 to also become more "complicated" over time.
In my limited experience using twinkle and shimmer under LSP 2.0 ... it appears that the twinkle and shimmer are basically as described and a bit quirky using rgb & pixelnet.
I'm unsure how twinkles and shimmers are "a bit quirky" - could you do a screencast-o-matic.com screen recording of any of these issues so I can evaluate this?
I haven't tried using my LOR stuff, but would assume its fine there. I really don't use either effect much and would use even less if this problem remains.
I'm not sure I understand this question/statement. Is this saying that when using LSP 2 with the LOR protocol that the twinkle/shimmers don't work as you would expect when use with S2?
I've also found that RGB SS Orange (esp.) and other colors do need some tweaking and probably vary a bit between type of smart string item a bit. I don't think thats a LSP issue, but just a color blend issue using RGB items in general. I think there is a way to tweak that color curve, or create custom colors to use (which show as expected) in LSP. For me, Orange looks a lot more like yellow. I think creating custom colors will likely be needed.
LSP, or any application for that matter, can only put out what the protocol allows. For DMX, that is 8 bits of data (256 levels of fading per color). So, if LSP, Vixen, LOR, Madrix or any other application puts out FF (8 bits of ON) for each of the colors (Red, Green, Blue) you SHOULD end up with a nice, perfect white. Is that what all RGB lights generate? Not even close - it depends completely on the hardware (LED binning, current levels, etc) and any adjustments (gama/curves). How do you fix this? Well if your application allows you to impliment lighting curves (like the hardware curves in the Lynx Express) you can "tweak" that not-so-perfect red to be (in most cases) till it's just right.
So, if your software application is setup to output orange and you are getting pink, in almost all cases (if you've setup your hardware right) - your LEDs (...or incandescents even) is/are at fault. This isn't a SS thing, it applies to ALL lighting. If you are not getting your orange, I would recommend the channel calibration features in LSP - one of the few high end applications that support such adjustments so that you don't have to result to "tricks" in your sequencing.
Hopefully that helps explain LSP a little better. I'll see if I can get some time to make a video showing this.
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THanks David.
I'm not sure there is any problem here ... or if its just different behavior between various software programs.
I agree that LSP is more adjustable than LOR on shimmer and twinkle. However, I'm not sure you can adjust it to look the same.
I'm thinking that just a hardware vs. software issue of shimmer.
My LSP shimmer looks like a fairly slow blinking effect ... on, off, on, off ... etc.
My LSP twinkle looks like a fairly random set of colors, twinkling fast (adjustable, and also intensity adjustable) ... but looks almost like the Vixen random effect.
Anyways, to me the effects by the same names just don't resemble what I'm used to, so maybe thats my main point of confusion.
I'd like a shimmer that can go really really fast ... but I'm not able to do that ... but be a limit of not doing it it hardware I guess.
I believe that when using LSP with LOR interface and controllers ... the shimmer and twinkle should look just fine/normal. If I used them via. DMX ... then probably
would look/act differently and thats what I was mostly talking about here. I guess LSP really isn't doing anything wrong, just differently.
I need to look into that channel calibration feature you mentioned! How do you get into that?
I really do like LSP a lot, don't get me wrong ... but as you said, its so advanced that it takes a lot of learning to master and the differences can cause confusion if your used to some other program.
Looking forward to your videos as always ...
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OK, I have found that using the right-click (on a channel), then configure channel , then DMX tab ... can yield a much better twinkle, esp. if you set the default up to the max. In fact, it kind of reminds me of the LOR shimmer.
The LSP shimmer however, I can't quite figure out what it does yet. It appears to do nothing unless I set everything to the max, then it appears to be a slow twinkle effect.
Could the twinkle and shimmer be reversed possibly?
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As an update - I recieved a message this is a bug and LSP is working to fix it. So hopefully the next update will be working. Who beta tested this stuff?!?! LOL :)
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjYFu3oM
Here is a screen cast of what I'm seeing. Maybe I've set up something incorrectly, but have a look and see what you think.
As far as features, what i seem to see is :
Vixen random twinkle:
Saturation (# channels on)
Leave random
Ensure level
Period Length
how long 'on' event lasts
Vary Intensity Level
0-255
Slight bit of tweaking can get red, green, blue, random colors, etc
LSP tinkle:
Intensity
Set single color
Doesn't work with other than red, green, or blue
Vixen Shimmer
Frequency
Decay Time
Intensity
LSP Shimmer
Standard/Random
Color
Doesn't actually work with pixelnet
Maybe I'm missing other options in LSP, but it doesn't seem so?
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As an update - I recieved a message this is a bug and LSP is working to fix it. So hopefully the next update will be working. Who beta tested this stuff?!?! LOL :)
Actually was reported in bug #362 on 08-Aug:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjj0VrCK
I suspect that this and other issues outstanding will be resolved in the upcoming update.
Thanks,
David
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As an update - I recieved a message this is a bug and LSP is working to fix it. So hopefully the next update will be working. Who beta tested this stuff?!?! LOL :)
Actually was reported in bug #362 on 08-Aug:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjj0VrCK
I suspect that this and other issues outstanding will be resolved in the upcoming update.
Thanks,
David
Well, I can't get the screen casst to load. Is it just me?
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So, if your software application is setup to output orange and you are getting pink, in almost all cases (if you've setup your hardware right) - your LEDs (...or incandescents even) is/are at fault. This isn't a SS thing, it applies to ALL lighting. If you are not getting your orange, I would recommend the channel calibration features in LSP - one of the few high end applications that support such adjustments so that you don't have to result to "tricks" in your sequencing.
Hopefully that helps explain LSP a little better. I'll see if I can get some time to make a video showing this.
Funny you should mention that.
I was having dinner with a friend who does makes his living doing lighting for theaters. He has a BA in Theater Production. One of the major gripes he has with LED lighting is color variances.
He recently bought all new LED lighting for a theater to cut down on the time he was spending to get the colors <rtt..correct. It ends up that the previous lighting engineers at that theater had in the past replaced the lights a few at a time as their budget allowed.
But this created an issue for them.Whenever they started to set up for a new production, they had to set the colors on each individual light for each individual scene. This added up to literally days of work as each light had a different color curve.
By replacing all the lights at once too all the same brand and all the same type he was able to get a lot more consistency in the color out of each light. This cut his lighting design time from 3-5 days to 12-14 hours.
Now granted, he works on professional theater and movie productions-not my front yard. But is this going to be a problem for us?
I mean, say I buy a few smart strings each year for different elements. Then one day I decide to do a total redesign on my display and use all the smart strings I have on my roof line. Am I going to have problems where each string of pixels have a different shade of red?
I am not real picky, but I don’t want one string to look UT orange and another Tx Tech red when they are put side by side.
Has anyone ran into a problem with this yet?
Any feedback on using different brands or even different lots of pixels?
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I'd like to put my word on this message thread and ask: when does anybody use the Shimmer and Twinkle effects in their shows? Mind you, I use Vixen rather than using LOR hardware's built-in stuff, but those effects seem kind of boring to me...
VERY slow songs perhaps?
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I don't user twinkle or shimmer much. I think the shimmer from LOR was pretty cool, but its also really annoying if used too much. So I basically had one song last year which had quite a bit of shimmer in it. The DMX twinkle and shimmer are a little different and more adjustable than the LOR version ... but I still don't see a need to use either much.
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I have a couple of songs which contain vibrato and use the shimmer to echo that effect in the lights. The twinkle is used sparingly to mimic a random function which LSP does not have. So I can see a place for these effects.
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I have a couple of songs which contain vibrato and use the shimmer to echo that effect in the lights.
Do you have an example video?
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The only recorded video I have was taken last year. It was my first year with a disply and I only had 16 channels. I used both shimmer and twinkle effects. The sound and picture are rather poor plus there is a lot of traffic and background noise. With those 'apologies' up front - for what it is worth:
http://vimeo.com/17911185
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As an update - I recieved a message this is a bug and LSP is working to fix it. So hopefully the next update will be working. Who beta tested this stuff?!?! LOL :)
Actually was reported in bug #362 on 08-Aug:
http://www.screencast-o-matic.com/watch/cXjj0VrCK
I suspect that this and other issues outstanding will be resolved in the upcoming update.
Thanks,
David
It is my understanding that this issue should be addressed here in the next week or two and be present in an updated version of LSP.
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Thanks for the info David. It's gottern to be pretty darn nice to have you around! I think that we often get better answers from you than from some of the other sources.
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I have a question about the color issue that was mentioned. I want my flexible strips to do a twinkle but have all of them only be white at any time when on. From what I am seeing, that doesn't work, but is only possible if you use the primary colors. When you select white, or any of the blended colors, the program doesn't link the 3 RGB channels together to doing the same thing across all 3 of them. So you end up with a rainbow with white, or for example you want a twinkle of orange, you get a mix of red, green and orange. I have tried adding the twinkle with the controllers expanded and collapsed, and get the same effect either way. Someone on LSP forum mentioned using the white for rainbow and setting the levels to 255,255,255 for solid white, although I think he meant 254,254,254 as he thought 256,256,256 was white. I tried that and still get a rainbow.
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Thanks for the info David. It's gottern to be pretty darn nice to have you around! I think that we often get better answers from you than from some of the other sources.
Hi DM
Thanks for taking the time out of your schedule to answer lots of these questions. All existing and prospective LSP users who are members of this board appreciate it.
As you well know as a beta tester, lots of issues have been reported by the testers and corrected by LSP. Still some remain and I am confident the reported "bug" issues will be addressed by DJ. There are also numerous feature requests that need to be evaluated by LSP for subsequent inclusion into the software. also.