DiyLightAnimation
Fun => The Porch => Topic started by: mcangeli on December 30, 2010,
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The wife picked up some LED Snow flakes from Garden Ridge, and no where on the box does it say that they are full wave or half wave (for that matter).
Is there a way to tell if they are full or half wave?
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The fact that there is no mention means they're probably half-wave.
If when looking at them straight on you don't see the flicker, try moving them into your peripheral vision (or, simply turn your head). Many people can only see the flicker through peripheral vision.
If that doesn't do it, try moving the lights quickly from side-to-side; some people can really see the flicker that way.
But if you can't tell, then does it really matter?
\dmc
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Many retail boxes don't say either half or full wave because many don't have a clue as to what that means anyway. What you can look for are key words like high intensity or low flicker which also indicate full wave strings. As DMC suggested, you can also look for the flicker. For many it is far more visible if you turn your head while looking at them or move the string while looking at them. If you see an intense flicker while doing that then they are more than likely half wave.
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Thanks guys. Pretty sure what she bought is half wave then... but hey, half beats no wave right? ;D
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But if you can't tell, then does it really matter?
Yes. If you want to dim them.
-Paul
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But if you can't tell, then does it really matter?
Yes. If you want to dim them.
Paul:
I beg to disagree.
I have been dimming half-wave LEDs for three seasons now and I defy anyone to tell me during the show whether they dim "correctly" or not. They ramp up and down nicely and don't look bad at all. I own some "full wave" LEDs that I bought this season that don't ramp well at all, especially at the low end (but I haven't tried adding snubbers to them -- that's an experiment for the off-season).
It's becoming clear to me that every make of LED string is different in how it looks and works with an SSR. There appears to be no consistency even within the same maker's products during the same season.
Put the string in question on an SSR and ramp -- if it looks OK, it's OK.
\dmc
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Sounds like you have the experience with them...I don't - yet. Just speaking from what I understand other's experiences to be.
-Paul
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Have used full and half wave LED's in my display for 3 years also.
Come over and tell me which a Full and Half Wave, you will be surprised how wrong you can be.
The mindset on LED's will be hard to undo.
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Have used full and half wave LED's in my display for 3 years also.
Come over and tell me which a Full and Half Wave, you will be surprised how wrong you can be.
The mindset on LED's will be hard to undo.
I bet I could tell if they are plugged into a Original Lynx if they are 1/2 wave or not. Since its a PWM controller and not a phase controller. Plug in the lights one way and it works and they don't if switched around.
Cheers
Rick R.
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If I lived near you I would take that challenge. I am not saying that your half wave lights don't look good becaue many of them do but if you know what you are looking for you can see the difference. The high quality half wave ones also dim well and on par with the full wave versions but the low quality full wave tend to dim much better than the low quality half wave ones do.
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I agree with dmaccole. I use all LEDs, and I'm not exactly sure if they are ALL half-wave, but some are since the flickering is more noticeable on them... and they all dim fine.
However, the dimming did get more linear when I changed the light curves using the Express Config Utility. Actually, I think it was the lone C6 option there (just a few spaces below the Default) was that looked good on all my light channels using different types/sizes/numbers of lights from various manufacturers. All the other ones made things look worse... notably at the top and bottom ends of brightness levels.
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If I lived near you I would take that challenge. I am not saying that your half wave lights don't look good becaue many of them do but if you know what you are looking for you can see the difference. The high quality half wave ones also dim well and on par with the full wave versions but the low quality full wave tend to dim much better than the low quality half wave ones do.
Trust me on the Original Lynx if the 1/2 waves are plugged in the wrong way in they don't work. It was a poor attempt at a joke.
I am sure I can tell the difference between lights on and blackness.
Cheers
Rick R.
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LOL, yes, I bet that you could tell the difference between light and dark. ;D If the older Lynx was only triggering on one half of the wave at some levels and it was the wrong half then a half wave string would not light at all. This may also happen to the guy in the Wallmart thread if he uses my idea about using a standard wall dimmer to test them and it also only uses half of the wave at lower levels and uses the wrong half.
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The original Lynx did not have a wave to send half of. It was a DC dimmer that ran on AC power.
RJ
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Mark, you have been by my house this year. Did you see any issues with my LEDs? All mine come from big box stores locally. Many from Home Depot, others from Lowes, Garden Ridge, Hobby Lobby, and even Big Lots. I have had very few problems with any of the lights, dimming, rust or flickering except that which was caused by the wireless problem that was just fixed. Only my roof lights still have some flicker because I decided I was not going to climb up there just to flash the firmware.
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I have some C6 Holiday Creations LED strings that I've been using since 2003 that I know are half wave. (There is no in-line dongle anywhere in the string which could hold diodes.) They dim perfectly. For 2011, I'm going to try splicing in a bridge rectifier after the power plug just to see if I get an increase in brightness.
Happy New Year!
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The original Lynx did not have a wave to send half of. It was a DC dimmer that ran on AC power.
RJ
Ooops, for some reason I was thinking old Express, LOL! Yea, I guess that if you hook up a DC voltage to a half wave string the wrong way it will do a whole lot of nothing.
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To date my experience with half wave has been half and half. ;D
Half (clear) when dimmed would dim once and I do mean once.
[One LED would pop, sputter, and spark causing the entire string to go dark. Later when I had time to troubleshoot (while on the roof) had to replace every LED (25) in the whole C9 string to get it to work. I just chalked it up to one of those things and prepared for that nights show. To my amazment the string performed fine until it was dimmed then the whole string went dark.]
The other (multi) would dim but on the ramp down would flash (ficker) as if to say Hey! look at me,.. I'm different then all the other strings." But at least they would dim without self destructing.
The contruction appeared to be identical and the manufacturer was GE. Not sure if they were made in different places.
It's nice to know that some out there have had good experiences with half wave.
Leon
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^Leon, are you talking about C9 retro bulbs? I never had but have read numerous posts about the older ones being non-dimmable.
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I have some C6 Holiday Creations LED strings that I've been using since 2003 that I know are half wave. (There is no in-line dongle anywhere in the string which could hold diodes.) They dim perfectly. For 2011, I'm going to try splicing in a bridge rectifier after the power plug just to see if I get an increase in brightness.
Happy New Year!
Yes.adding a bridge rectifier inline with the string will make them brighter. HOWEVER, you need to know a couple of other things that will happen.
1. The female receptacle will now be Full wave DC, more on this later.
2. The White, Green, Blue strings will have two individual strings, when adding the bridge inline one string will light, reverse the wires on the + & - connections and the other half of the string will light, so how do you get by that? Easy, just find the center of the string where the wires go from 3 wires to 2 wires and back again to 3 wires, at the 2 wire point cut both wires and reveves the connections. Now both strings are on the same polarity.
3. Yellow, Orange, and Red may be 1 series string up to 70 LED's, connect the bridge and try the lights, if they do not light reverse the + & - wires.
4. Now adding more strings this way will not be a problem unless you are adding more than around 10 strings. The problem is each bridge rectifier will drop 1.4 volts per string added. That's a 14 volt drop to the last LED's. I do use some strings this way but keep the total string count low.
5. Another option is do not add the bridge rectifiers to all strings, just the first one on each channel, Just mark this string with a color tape band around the Plug housing. The other strings for White, Green, and Blue only need the second string reverse wire mod done.
Now plugging in the strings will not harm them if you do plug them into AC, If plugging them in to the modified DC string you need to observe polarity, I just run power to the first string and if the next string does not light, pull the plug and turn it 180 degree and plug it back in, do that for all additional strings. You are done.
6. Another way to convert Half wave strings is add 1/2 of a bridge rectifier to each end of both led strings, the middle 2 diodes will be shared between both strings. The Female receptacle will remain AC this way. Have converted many string this way also. There is a polarity issue here to know if the first LED wire is the positive or negative lead.
The Diodes I use are the 1n4xxx series but would not go lower than the 1N4004's, Yes they are only 1 amp rated diodes, but you will only be operating them around 20 ma.
The bridge rectifier I use is the DF-06, bend the ~ pins over on one side of the body and the + & - pins over on the other side of the body, solder your wires to the leads and after testing, add a little low temp hot melt glue and slide a pieces of heat shrink over the assembly and apply heat till the hot melt starts oozing out.
BTW: PLEASE do not do make these changes while the strings are plugged into AC. You will have maximum smoke release.
BTW: I now have a LED light string tester, started work on it 2 years ago, have tested many failed strings of LED's and have not found one that I could not trouble shoot in less than 2 minutes. Typical is less than 1 minute.
Works on Full or Half Wave, AC or DC strings, GE constant ON strings. Commercial or professional lights. Sealed or unsealed.
Looking for someone to help produce and market it.
If anyone wants strings converted or repaired, please PM me. Will consider Lynx equipment for work done.
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^This is really good Dennis... thanks for sharing!
When I first considered the idea of adding a bridge rectifier I was looking specifically at the 70ct Red strings, which are only two wires end to end. Now I won't be scratching my head when I get to the Green, Blue and White!
Maybe someone here could help you produce and coop a PCB for your tester?
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^Leon, are you talking about C9 retro bulbs? I never had but have read numerous posts about the older ones being non-dimmable.
No both strings were 25 count C9 LED and were identical in construction but not performance. I think you have a point though in ther fact that the warm white strings were obviously nondimmable. Nothing saying that but the proof is in the self destruct.