DiyLightAnimation
Forum Info => Getting started with Light Animation => Topic started by: kernal on January 09, 2013,
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Greetings from Moline, IL! My name is Shane, and I have been bit by the Christmas light bug! I currently have the Mr. Christmas that I purchased a few years ago from Menards. I am ready to go big! I have watched several videos on different websites, but I am not that trustworthy of myself to jump in without some guidance.... So, if anybody would be willing to help me out, that would be great! I would like to go with the RGB LED strips and nodes. I have ordered 5 dmx boards like Zach uses (lightuplawrence.com) But I am not sure what program to use? I have seen a few programs like Vixen and LOR and light show pro... but would like to keep the price down and use the dmx. But I am confused by how you can piggyback the 9 channel dmx boards to get multiple boards to operate sequensially together!
Also, can I use my current LED lights that I bought at the big box stores? even if they are just a simple on / off commandwith out changing colors?
Please and thank you for any help given!!
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Good Morning, Shane!
My name is Jamie, and if you'll allow me I'll try to answer a few of your questions. There are other here on DIYLA that can provide much better answers, but since I am one of the first to see this... you are stuck with me. :)
I would like to go with the RGB LED strips and nodes.
That means you are going to need something that does DMX or, in the case of equipment here at DLA, pixelnet. As you may, or may not, know pixels use three channels each. One to control the red, one for the green, and one for the blue. If you have a string of pixels that are 100 lights long, then you are going to use 300 channels just for that string!
DMX is an industry standard. Its arranged in "Universes" which consist of 512 channels each. You can have a mixture of standard AC controllers (often called "lightpacks") and DC controllers (that usually control your LEDs, servos, etc). The AC controllers will take care of standard incandescent lights, or pretty much anything using AC power.
Pixelnet is a custom developed protocol developed by RJ here at DLA. It, also, is arranged in "Universes", but they consist of 4096 channels each. It was specifically designed to take care of the issue of needing thousands of channels to control light strings.
I have seen a few programs like Vixen and LOR and light show pro... but would like to keep the price down and use the dmx
Ya see... I just didn't read far enough.. you already know what DMX is. Ok, on to the software.
You've listed the "big 3".
Vixen: Free! - and actively developed. Its not commercial software, but its pretty darn good at handling large amounts of channels.
LOR S3: ~$150 (less if you purchase a controller from them). - Pretty slick software and, through E1.31, handles all the RGB tasks.
LSP: $250-$400 - Not real familiar with this software, but there are many here who use it.
If cost is the issue, then Vixen is your likely candidate. The nice thing is, you can download ANY of them for free, play around with them and then decide which you like best. Choose wisely, because once you get used to an interface it becomes a struggle to change types later. (I'm using LOR's S3 because I started with their controllers... I've tried to learn Vixen, but I have a hard time wrapping my head around it!)
I am confused by how you can piggyback the 9 channel dmx boards to get multiple boards to operate sequensially together!
Each board is assigned a different set of channels, so if you have a few 9 channel boards, the first would be set to channels 1-9, the second 10-18, etc. While they receive ALL the channel info, they will only "listen" to their assigned channels. You can also set separate boards up with the same channels so that you may have them duplicate each other (usually at different locations). Daisy chain them all together (up to 32 controllers in the DMX world) on a single universe and you have a working light show! (well, once you get the songs sequenced, that is)
can I use my current LED lights that I bought at the big box stores? even if they are just a simple on / off commandwith out changing colors?
Yeppers! But as you said, they won't be changing colors. Connect them to a dimmer pack, sequence your song to turn that channel on and "blinky"!!! If you want changing colors you have to go with pixels. Be careful though... Different pixel strings use different voltages. DLA controllers utilize 12V DC for pixels. There are many out there that utilize 5V DC which are good, for example, with LORs DC controller. Either type can be purchased as long as you purchase the appropriate controller.
I hope this helps!
Jamie
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That website gave me some kind of security error and would not display...
DMX is a bus protocol. You have a transmitting device at one end, multiple devices hanging off of it, and usually a terminator at the far end. Most devices have two DMX ports so that the signal can be looped through and a switch that allows termination if it is the last item on the buss. If those DMX controllers are like the ones from holiday coro, the terminator is built in to each device and they are normally connected directly to a hub of some sort rather than allowing them to be daisy chained. This is the normal approach when the other wires in a cat5 cable are being used to supply power.
Pixelnet works the same way, but is Unique to DLA and is not compatible with DMX (although the active hub will translate one block of 512 channels into a DMX universe to control DMX equipment.
The standard for DMX connectors is a 5 pin xlr, but outside of professional circles, nobody uses those... In the prosumer market, 3 pin xlr connectors are common and for the rest of us, we normally use the 8-pin Ethernet connectors and/or Ethernet patch cables.
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correction for the website: http://www.lightuplawrence.net/Home
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Welcome Shane!
Those "9 channel" boards are actually 27 channel DC controllers - they can be used to control 9 sets of RGB lights. You cannot use DC controllers to control regular light sets that you would buy at a store because store lights plug into a wall outlet - which is 110-120 volts AC. The Lynx Express controller, available from this site, is a very fine 16-channel AC controller; although there are suitable AC controllers available from LOR and elsewhere that will do the job.
You have come to the right place for learning more about Christmas lighting. Be prepared to drink from a fire hose!
Matt
Sent from my LG-LS840 using Tapatalk 2
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Welcome to DLA, Shane!
Steve (from Austin)
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Ok, so can i use the boards that i ordered for a mega tree? I ordered 10 strings of rgb led nodes (got a great price). Will i have enough channels with the boards i ordered?
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Each one of those boards will handle 9 strings so two of them will handle your 10 with 8 to spare. Make sure that the strings that you ordered are 12V dumb string. Since the minimum voltage for this card is 7V, 5V strings will not work with this board and going with strings above 12V (if you can find them) could make it difficult to find a power supply for them. You also need to check on how much current these strings use and make sure that they don't exceed what that card and the power supply you will be using to power them can provide. These boards will also not work with smart strings so make sure not to order those but if you did, and they are 12V, then we have controllers that will work with them.
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To increase the board's current output. Please see this post. Post #48
http://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php/topic,741.45.html
I did this mod to seven boards and they ran great in my show this year.
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12v DC is what i ordered. Ip 66. What kind of power supply does anyone recommend?
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ip66 is not waterproof. Be careful.
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ip66 is not waterproof. Be careful.
IP66 is not submersible but are water resistant and if done properly, should be able to deal with rain. Many of the earlier nodes from Ray were not even close to their claim of IP66.
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12v DC is what i ordered. Ip 66. What kind of power supply does anyone recommend?
Most of us are using PC power supplies and your not going to get more bang for the buck from other types. We use single rail supplies and if you go that route, make sure that the 12V output is supplying the required current.
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12v DC is what i ordered. Ip 66. What kind of power supply does anyone recommend?
I like these...
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/12V-3-7A-45W-waterproof-power-supply-AC11V-220V-input-CE-approved/701799_340442205.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/12V-3-7A-45W-waterproof-power-supply-AC11V-220V-input-CE-approved/701799_340442205.html)
they are waterproof and don't need an enclosure. with 45watts, they won't do a big display, but they can still be used for multiple light elements.
I add them inline as a power injector... adding power over the unused wires in the cat5 cabling.
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I've used these with no problem. they do require an enclosure though.
http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/350W-Dual-Output-Switching-Power-Supply-88-264VAC-input-12V-350W-output-CE-and-ROHS-approved/701799_289599951.html
Someone within our local group is always ordering something from Ray Wu, so we combine orders to reduce shipping.
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Ok... so i ordered ten of http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-495657175/50-node-LED-pixel-string-DC12V-input-new-model-IP68.html that are 15 foot long with 30 per string. So if i am doing the math right i will need 900 channels??? (30 per string each light is 3 ch =90*10 strings)...
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you have 50 nodes per string...
50 * 10 *3 = 1500 channels
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Ok... so i ordered ten of http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-495657175/50-node-LED-pixel-string-DC12V-input-new-model-IP68.html (http://www.aliexpress.com/fm-store/701799/209889132-495657175/50-node-LED-pixel-string-DC12V-input-new-model-IP68.html) that are 15 foot long with 30 per string. So if i am doing the math right i will need 900 channels??? (30 per string each light is 3 ch =90*10 strings)...
That link is for 50 pixels per string -- not 30.
10 strings... 50 pixels per string, 3 channels per pixel -- 1500 channels.
If you decide to enable "hybrid mode" you can also control the strings so that all pixels on that string receive the same instructions. For each string, add one virtual pixel, with its own 3 channels. With hybrid you have 1500 + (10 strings * 1 pixel * 3 channels) = 15030 channels.
Since you asked about channel count, I want you to know that these are smart strings, and use Pixelnet. (NOT DMX!)
Pixelnet has 4096 channels per pixelnet universe. So, you have PLENTY of room.
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Somewhere between beginning of thread and now the subject changed from 27 channel dc DMX controllers and dumb strings to SmartString equipment and nodes. I think the OP should make sure he has a good understanding of the different technologies before purchasing.
The nodes you ordered will not work with Ray's 27 channel controllers. You would need to buy a USB Pixelnet Dongle or EtherDongle, computer power supply (single rail), 1 active or passive 16 port hub and most likely 10 SSC controllers.
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Thats why i posted in the "getting started" section! Yes i am learning as i go. I have no problem running into problems along the way. I am having fun while i do it, and the money is really not an issue. I like the versatility of the rgb led nodes and strips over the LOR plain ole blinky. Like i said beforehand i am going from mr christmas plug and play to a whole new world. Agreed?!!
Ok... can i run said pixle net thingy, and then use these boadds i have for leaping arches? Or maybe color changing stars on the roof?
If anyone is in the Moline area, and want to come over, i will buy the beer and pizza! Lol...
Again, this is fun and i am learning....
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And as far as the strings i ordered, i custom ordered them. I got 10 strings that are 15 feet long with 30 lights per string.
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No problem. Just making sure you have the info. DMX 27 channel controls with dumb strips and Pixel nodes with SmartString hardware is the exact same hardware i am using. So so far so good. Let me know if i can help.
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Please do!!! Haha... my brain is a sponge right now! I need to know what i need to buy to make a pixel tree. The rgb boards can be used in other elements!
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to make a tree, make sure to read up on different ways to make the pole for your tree, you should biuld this before july. so your not rushed in the 2nd half of the year.
if you ask 10 people, you'll get 10 ideas...
also, you'll need to attach your nodes to something like paracord, the nodes may not support their own weight just hanging from the tree.
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The great thing about this is that its all interoperable.
You can use DMX 110v controllers with dimming curves for your store-bought strings.
You can build coroplastic stars and candy canes with 3-channel DMX controllers.
The pixelnet smart string hubs can hand off a DMX universe (or multiple universes) to join it all together.
You can use wireless to join up the lights from your neighbor across the street.
Time is the first requirement, money helps.
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I have been tinkering in the garage with different ideas, and i am glad i did bcuz everyone i see has trees that are 20 feet tall... i dont want it that big. I am gonna do 12 maybe 13 feet. Hence the 15 foot strings. I have about 8000 lights that i can try different things with. Thats why i was wondering how to use my regular dumb strings with the boards i got. Im sure there is a way to cut the plug off and put the two wire in the board. But i dont want to fry the board putting the wrong wire in the wrong spot on the board...
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when you say dumb strings, are you referring to 12v dc lights that you get online, or just leds that bought at a retail store?
on the site even though 120v AC led strings are "dumb" as in not individually controlled. they're just regualar strings that you would power with something like a Lynx Express.
if they are the 12v lights that aren't individually controlled, thn they would be controlled with something like the dumbstring controller, the mr16, or ray's 27 channel controller.
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Yeah i consider the lights that i got at the big box stores as dumb strings. Can i cut off the plug and use those on these boards?
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Yeah i consider the lights that i got at the big box stores as dumb strings. Can i cut off the plug and use those on these boards?
The big box stores sell 110v products.
You'll want a 110v controller like the Lynx express (which is currently being sold in a coop).
Typically, people don't cut the connectors off -- you'll need to bring power from the controller to whereever you hang the strings. That is usually done with conventional extension cords. BUT people also buy SPT1 or SPT2 wire that they connect to the controller, and run that to the strings. With the SPT1 or SPT2 wire, you'd add a receptacle (usually a vampire-type that is easily attached to the wire without a fuss.
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I'm one of those who did cut off the cord ends, and replaced them with bullet connectors and used Lamp Wire to make my power runs. Doing this, I could make a run of wire (say, along my arches), break off with a vampire connector, and then use bullet connectors to "patch in" to the signal.
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Yeah i consider the lights that i got at the big box stores as dumb strings. Can i cut off the plug and use those on these boards?
To help you with the terminology so that people don't get confused...
dumb strings are usually referred to low voltage dc powered strings, 12v on this site (but other sites have used 5v)
as for controllers, you can pretty much break them down into 3 catagories...
AC controllers (here, the Express, and SSR4 are examples)
Smart String Controllers (uses strings that run on 12v, and have a chip in each node to control the colors of that particular node)
Dumb String Controllers (uses strings that run on 12v and does not have any chip in each node so that the entire string changes colors as it's controlled by the Dumb String Controller.