DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Freestyle => Topic started by: pHoZfoRus on March 04, 2013,
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I have finally had an opportunity to start putting together the hardware for a display this year. All is going well except for the Freestyle & SSR4 combination. I have a number of 240v items to control, and whilst I have the Express up and running for some of them, the location of the others requires an SSR4 solution to reduce the length of extension cables required (changing the location of the current Express or additional Expresses is not suitable).
I have made the required modification for 240v usage on the Freestyle (i.e. cut traces). The SSR4’s have been set up for 240AC with 330ohm resistors (added DMX option before realising there was no firmware for 50hz operation).
Long story short – I am not getting any output from the SSR4 when connected up to the Freestyle.
The Freestyle is plugged into 240v AC - SSR4 plugged into 240v AC – Cat5 cable from Bobcat DMX Tester to DMX In on Freestyle, Cat5 cable from Freestyle ‘1’ to DMX In on SSR4. Expecting 240v AC out on Ch1 of SSR4.
Firstly, is what I am trying to achieve available on 240v?
Whilst testing for correct voltages on the Freestyle, I note that the voltages for the ZC Signal and Clock signal were not quite in the range expected in the manual.
Here is the list of troubleshooting steps I have tried so far:
- Plugged the 240v AC element being used for testing directly into the wall – lights as expected;
- Bobcat DMX Tester generates channels successfully to an Express – tester set to ALL channels (default channel number on Freestyle not changed after flashing of PIC so it should be from Channel 1);
- I have tested both Cat5 cables with a reliable cable tester – all test ok and work on the Express (also used other new Cat5 cables);
- SSR4 jumpered as per the assembly Manual for SSR (not controller);
- Both boards checked for soldering issues (photos next post);
- Programmed the PIC with PICKit 3 using the j1sys ICSP28 Adapter – Jumpered to “L†– used the firmware from the WIKI (Checksum 9AAF) and also a copy of the “50hz†firmware located in another topic (Checksum 922F);
- Checked voltage readings for the Freestyle as per the Assembly Manual – readings were taken for both firmware with results below:
Range expected Wiki firmware “50hz†firmware
5v Power 4.8 to 5.2v 5.01v 5.01v
ZC Signal 0.2 to 0.25v 0.133v (5.02) 0.132v (5.02)
Clock Signal 2.35 to 2.5v 2.56v 2.54v
Power supply >10v 12.05v 12.05v
- Confirmed with a meter that the 15k resistor for the ZC Signal is correct (measures 15.02k);
- Tried different outputs on the Freestyle;
- I have a second Freestyle that behaves the same with the same results;
- I have tried a second SSR4 (unfortunately I had already built the controllers with the DMX option) and still no output.
Other than the out of range values for the ZC & Clock signals, I am at a loss as to other things to check.
Would the fact that I have the DMX option installed be causing this?
Thanks for taking the time to read this.
Russell
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Freestyle board
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SSR4 Board
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I've never tried an ssr4 with DMX in slave mode. If you pull the pic and the 485 chip, that would remove all of the connections that interact with the 4 control lines.
Also, make sure the optos are in the right way - I couldn't tell from the photo.
I've never tried this, but I believe you can hook 4 LEDs to one of the freestyle outputs and see the trigger pulses. I don't remember the pin out or polarity though... And I need to go to work right now...
RM
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If you do hook up LEDs, don't forget current limiting resistors 330 ohms should do.
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Thanks Robert - I have pulled all chips on the SSR4 - still nothing.
I checked the optos - the dot is not obvious on the photo but they are all located on the top right (as you look at the picture). I have swapped them out with 4 from an Express that I know is working - still no change (and double checked orientation).
I have a been able to get readings on a multimeter from the Cat5 cable coming from the Freestyle. Even though I select channel 1 only on the tester, I can't seem to isolate pins to work out the configuration. I am getting 5.02v across a number of different pin combinations.
I am about to reflash the PIC for the Freestyle and program to start channel 1.
This will be user error - I just need to figure out where I went wrong.
Russell
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Hi Russell,
I have run a few of these without the DMX option for a couple of years, I also made one up with the DMX option which has never been used.
If you find you need another couple of PCB's send me a PM, I have a few spares, bare and builtup that I can spare.
I am in NZ so shipping would be a bit easier.
Kev :-)
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Thanks Kev - I'll see how I go removing the DMX parts first. I made a rookie mistake of soldering up all 8 SSRs with the DMX option before testing one first and realizing the DMX option is not 50hz aware (the waft of solder must have put me in a trance).
I'll try de-soldering one first - I may need a 'life-line' from you if I mess it up.
I will concentrate on isolating the SSR4 as a cause first before looking any further at the Freestyle.
Fingers crossed...
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No worries, as I said I have a few and you can have them for what I paid if you need them.
Good luck with the de-soldering.
Kev :-)
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Removed the DMX components - still no life from the SSR4. I have continuity across the fuse and from the main neutral to the other 4 channel neutrals. I am starting to think that the SSR4 is not the issue.
I will go for a fresh start tomorrow. Any suggestions?
Russell
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They trigger from Ground as I remember so when you see 5 v on a trigger line to ground you are seeing it as the channel being off.
So there is a 5v line form the freestyle to each SSR4 and then 4 lines that are grounded to turn the channel on.
I believe I am remembering that correctly.
RJ
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I looked at my freestyle, but didn't have time to do any testing.
In the output connector, pin 1 is common and 2, 4, 6, & 8 look like the 4 control lines. Pin 1 traces back to ground, so I'm guessing the 74hct273 is sourcing the trigger - +vcc to trigger the ssr4. The hct logic is only good for about 20ma in source mode and it should be 5v logic.
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Thanks RJ & Robert - I didn't get time last night to check.
I'll start on the Freestyle tonight.
Russell
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Yeah my memory is not the best I am afraid I aways have to go pull stuff up to remember correctly. I was not near the information to look up so I was guessing what I remembered. Thanks for checking on it for us.
RJ
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Update - I may be able to take the Freestyle out of the equation - it looks to be working as required, but need to confirm that seeing 5v on a line is turning it on?
I am able to get consistent readings from the Freestyle as per the pin outs provided (e.g. Channel 3 all on = 5v on pins 1 & 6). I get a steady 5v when I change channel and can trace each channel change with the meter (all 5v at 100%). When I dim, I get a corresponding drop. I get this with both Freestyle boards.
If this is correct, I can then focus on the SSR4.
Russell
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Yeah I would say you have a SSR4 issue. Make sure the jumpers are correct. this is the normal issue. there is more than one jumper to be set correctly to make it an SSR and not a 4 channel SMX unit.
RJ
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Further update. In checking the SSR4, cables etc, i moved the 240v AC cord from Channel '1' to '4' on the SSR4. Plugged everything and ta da - there was output on this channel.
My excitement was short lived however when I tried to turn on channel 4 only - the Bobcat Tester had to be set to all channels for it to light up. To get output from Channel '4', I had to fire up Vixen and have at least 2 channels in the SSR4 group on (e.g. 1&2, 2&3, 2&4, 2&3&4 etc).
I then moved the 240 output cable on the SSR4 to 1,2 & 3 - no output at all (even when set to all channels on).
I again tested the Cat5 cable from the Freestyle to the SSR4 - tester reported cable is ok (and not a cross over).
At least I have some life out of the hardware. I will post the output voltages from the Freestyle to SSR4 soon.
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Make sure the optos (opto-isolators - the white chips) are in correctly and just for grins verify the part number on the triacs.
There is not much that go wrong with an ssr4 in slave mode.
The 5v from the freestyle goes through the resistor pack to the opto and back to the freestyle via pin 1.
Inside the opto, a led lights from the voltage which triggers a photosensitive triac.
That triac in the opto then triggers the bigger triac through the resistor on the board.
You might also look to see if you can see the part number of the resistor pack. If not, use your ohmmeter to check it. There should be roughly 680 ohms between pins 1&2, between 3&4, between 5&6, and between 7&8. The resistance between those pairs should be very high.
Opto-isolator - literally uses a led with a plastic or glass separator between it and the photosensitive triac (or transistor). There is no electrical connection between the two circuits in the chip.
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For the sake of thoroughness, please check the fuse... I can troubleshoot for hours and still make that mistake...
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Robert - I think I may have found the issue.
Checking the resistor array, I get 677 ohm between pin 1&2, 1&3, 1&4, 1&5 etc. It appears that it is a bussed resistor array instead of an isolated array. I can not see the part number but I reckon it is the resistor array.
The resistance between pins 3&4, 5&6 and 7&8 is 1.354k ohm.
I will order new resistors and see how that goes - may take a week or so to get the parts to me, but I will certainly post if it corrects the issue. I will put this to the side until then as it makes sense that this would be causing the problem I am seeing.
Thank you very much for following this Robert - I don't think I would be this far along without your advice.
Russell
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You can substitute 4 regular 680 ohm resistors for the resistor pack.
1/8 watt is big enough, but 1/4 watt is also fine.
I haven't looked to see what the tolerance of the circuit is, but anything between 600 and 750 ohms should not be a problem.
If the pic is still installed, you may get readings like that as the pic also connects to each opto. With the pic removed, the pairs should be isolated.
Just as another easy check, you should check the 180 ohm resistors right next to the triacs.
When I place an order, I like to make sure that I get everything I need...
RM
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Woohoo. :)
I now have the SSR4 responding to channels changes and dimming through the Freestyle. Replacing the resistor array did the trick.
Checking the part number confirmed I was using a bussed array (long story short - ordered the correct part but supplied with the wrong one). <fp.
It now also works as a SSR4 DMX (dimming does not kick in until 15% but as there is no 50hz firmware I expected this).
Thank you very much Robert, RJ and Kev. I am confident that I would not have solved this without your help.
As I was thinking all along - it was user error.
Russell
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We are just glad you got it working!!
Congrats on your success in troubleshooting.
RM