DiyLightAnimation

Hardware => Other Projects => Topic started by: RJ on February 28, 2008,

Title: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on February 28, 2008,
Ok I keep getting asked about the Robo Light. I have no cheaper option for it with a light bright enough. The 3w leds are bright but not enough for somehing like this. I would put it out with a 3 watt rgb led but everyone would be disappointed in it once they got it outside.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: Aussiephil on February 28, 2008,
I'd have to think about it purely as i cannot think of a use at this time. If i was still doing disco's i'd want 20 of them yesterday!

Phil
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: kylec on February 29, 2008,
I am with Phil.  This would be a cool project, but I can't think of where I would use it.  I'd say 80% chance I would build one, especially after those tax refund checks show up in May ;D.  BTW I think we should have a big "tax refund coop" the begining of June ; :D
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on February 29, 2008,
I said YES!, it would be painfull but I can think of several uses for it.

I have spent several hours looking for an alternative lamp/light engine for this and I have yet to find anything better than RJ's current choice.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: NOLAlights on February 29, 2008,
My thing -and I suspect that of many others- is not the $180 proper but the bang for the buck. By the time you add the servos et al you're looking ~$220.  For that much money I could add another ~50 channels of controllers which would make a bigger bang...

My thoughts.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on February 29, 2008,
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My thing -and I suspect that of many others- is not the $180 proper but the bang for the buck. By the time you add the servos et al you're looking ~$220.  For that much money I could add another ~50 channels of controllers which would make a bigger bang...

My thoughts.

I assume, which could be a mistake, that $180 is inclusive of the servo's.  The light engine is $80 so that leaves $100 for everything else. 
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on February 29, 2008,
I was makeing a rough estimate but $180 was with everything includeing the servos which are like $11 a piece.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: Docjon on March 01, 2008,
Hi RJ,

I was just wondering if the design does go ahead, would it be possible to add something like a lens on the unit so that the beam could be focused?

Thanks
Brenton
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on March 01, 2008,
I know at one point that RJ talked about a lens but I don't know if he was able to get an optimal one.  Additionally I would think a reflector would be a good idea, but the one time I saw robo I was distracted to much to look at those details.

Shawn
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on March 01, 2008,
the Light Engine has reflectors built into the seperate parts. I use a tube to get a smaller spread. I looked at lens etc. but never came up with anything good.
There is much room for improvment on that kind of stuff on it. But I am not much of a person with optics and such.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: NOLAlights on March 01, 2008,
ok my bad... when I followed the link on another thread, I thought the 180 was just the engine...  Either way my point is sorta the same, I think for many the $180 would find a lot of competition....

As far as the lens goes, I've seen many projects on the web that buy this flashlight (or similar) and steal the lens.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93712

They can often be found for $2.50 shipped. I don't know if it will fit but I know a lot of people by it just for the lens. Something to think about.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: tommy on March 01, 2008,
Actually, I like RJ's idea of just using a tube to control the light.  The longer the tube, the more controlled the light would be.  The tube idea would transfer the maximum amount of light to the subject because anytime you add a piece of glass to a beam of light (IE: a lens) there will be some loss induced to that beam.

Just a thought from a photographer.

Tommy
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: NOLAlights on March 02, 2008,
Well yes and no... the reason flashlights have lenses is to focus the beam.  The gain from focusing the beam far out weighs the loss from the element.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on March 02, 2008,
I worked with a number of focusers out of flashlights and lens, Etc. I could never get a beam I was happy with. The Tube always out did them for finished output. This is do to my limited knowledge and availibity of then to use. you can see in one of the most posted picture of the Robo a flash light reflector being fitted to it.

http://www.putfile.com/pic/6349636

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on March 02, 2008,
Actually the reflector does most of the focusing in a flashlight.  And the LE (light Engine) does have one designed for it.


(http://content.screencast.com/media/44df7d12-a5f6-4848-94c0-e68903509935_f6dfc84d-cd17-45c0-8b69-0c89036f8af6_static_0_0_2008-03-02_0142.png)

This chart is from the data sheet and shows the light output for the bare light engine.
(http://content.screencast.com/media/9d76a324-313a-4d07-934d-a6ab1963f4e5_f6dfc84d-cd17-45c0-8b69-0c89036f8af6_static_0_0_2008-03-03_0012.png)

This chart has the augmented light output using the reflector. As you can see the output is nearly 4 times the unmodified engine.
(http://content.screencast.com/media/0746dbac-34b0-4240-8b63-8ffbd01cd725_f6dfc84d-cd17-45c0-8b69-0c89036f8af6_static_0_0_2008-03-03_0033.png)

Shows how they are measuring the the light
(http://content.screencast.com/media/b544dfc9-223c-406b-9e72-9913bc0bbdd7_f6dfc84d-cd17-45c0-8b69-0c89036f8af6_static_0_0_2008-03-02_0148.png)

A drawing of the reflector, only problem is the size, 4.5 inches in diameter
(http://content.screencast.com/media/71b550e1-cfb0-4494-9253-228f417fb51f_f6dfc84d-cd17-45c0-8b69-0c89036f8af6_static_0_0_2008-03-02_0147.png)





Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on March 03, 2008,
I have one. I tried it but found it to be too wide for me. I was looking for a spot not a flood. The grate also cut down the light too much imho. It did a good job of blending the colors but really put a hurt on the output. I would recommend everyone look for anything that will work well. I just don't want you to think I threw a tube on and said, There it looks good. I tried the factory unit and about 10 different ones out of flashlights. A few lens I could find. Some lens focused the beam nicely but seperated the colors so you had spots of each color instead of blending.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on March 03, 2008,
I wasn't trying to say that you hadn't.  I think at this point that you have the best light source.  With that light engine the only choice is to add a reflector to narrow the beam.  That is what the one I indicated does, takes the beam from about a 130 degrees to 25 degrees total angle.  But the size will not fit into what I remember the tube robo has in it.  The literature indicates you can leave the lens off but again it doesn't matter as the size does not work.  I have looked at alot of LED light engine data sheets and I see no better option than the one you have chosen.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on March 10, 2008,
RJ,

What is the inside diameter of the Tube used for RoboLight? And the length of the tube, also.

Shawn
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on March 10, 2008,
It's packed upstairs in the garage. I will get the info as soon as I have a chance to dig it out.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: grages on March 11, 2008,
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It's packed upstairs in the garage. I will get the info as soon as I have a chance to dig it out.

RJ

Not a super rush, but since we don't have a better choice on light engines the only option is to improve the light output reflected.  I have a rough design for a parabolic reflector and I need the actual inside diameter and the approx length of the tube.  I have all of the calculations in a spread sheet.  Here is the rub because of the placement of the led elements on the engine they really are not a point light source, this makes the focal point an approximation, meaning not a perfect parallel reflection will be produced.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on March 11, 2008,
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It's packed upstairs in the garage. I will get the info as soon as I have a chance to dig it out.

RJ

Not a super rush, but since we don't have a better choice on light engines the only option is to improve the light output reflected.  I have a rough design for a parabolic reflector and I need the actual inside diameter and the approx length of the tube.  I have all of the calculations in a spread sheet.  Here is the rub because of the placement of the led elements on the engine they really are not a point light source, this makes the focal point an approximation, meaning not a perfect parallel reflection will be produced.

Yeah! What he said!  ;D   


Actual I understood but i was funnier that saying that.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: kylec on March 31, 2008,
This topic has been dead for 3 weeks, so I am bringing it back to life.  RJ, since you already have a couple Robo lights in use in your display, what would it take to make this available to the crowds (6 people) gathered at your doorstep chanting "Ro-bo-light, Ro-bo-light"?  Does it NEED to be improved on ( reflectors, refractors, lenses, tubes, whatever...), or would you be able to sleep at night knowing that your current design is in use in displays all around the world? 
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on March 31, 2008,
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This topic has been dead for 3 weeks, so I am bringing it back to life.  RJ, since you already have a couple Robo lights in use in your display, what would it take to make this available to the crowds (6 people) gathered at your doorstep chanting "Ro-bo-light, Ro-bo-light"?  Does it NEED to be improved on ( reflectors, refractors, lenses, tubes, whatever...), or would you be able to sleep at night knowing that your current design is in use in displays all around the world? 

The design is a doable setup right now. It is expensive compared to what I would like it to be. My problem with releasing it is this:

1 - I have no time at the moment to do anything needed to put it out. And there is a lot of instructions needed to build it. not hard just to get the information across.

2 - The system to be a real good system is too course right now. It need to have some work done to make the positioning go in smaller steps and to have some logic behind it so Vixen can effectively use it with on a lot of hard work.

I know what I have to do but as I have to keep reminding everyone There is only one of me. And everyone has different things they want. So somethings will wait. Right now actively I am working on the refit of the Freestyle, The SSR4, and have the wireless waiting.

in the background there is the Ledtriks II, The LYNX II, And my show this year not to count all the laser work to setup and seqence if I go that route this year.

I need about 3 - 4 weeks of working on the complex code to make the Robo Light something everyone will really want and use. It will happen Just can't say when. 

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: kylec on March 31, 2008,
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I know what I have to do but as I have to keep reminding everyone There is only one of me. And everyone has different things they want. So somethings will wait. Right now actively I am working on the refit of the Freestyle, The SSR4, and have the wireless waiting.

in the background there is the Ledtriks II, The LYNX II, And my show this year not to count all the laser work to setup and seqence if I go that route this year.

I need about 3 - 4 weeks of working on the complex code to make the Robo Light something everyone will really want and use. It will happen Just can't say when. 

RJ

Completely understand.  If there is that much work to do just on the code alone the release of robo light should be only after the complete package is up to the standards of all of the other toys that you make available to us.  If that doesn't happen this year (or next) I dont think anyone will complain. I know that one of your main goals is to design things that you can use in your own display, and you have already spent a lot of time this year working on projects that you have no need for (freestyle, dongle, probably things I dont even know about). Thank you RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: softshelpro on December 12, 2009,
So what's the curent status on this toy?
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on December 12, 2009,
Waiting for other projects to finish and have time for it.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: voyageurs60 on December 24, 2009,
I did not vote... don't understand what this project is... "Robo Light" searched and did not find it described... sorry, NOOB you know...
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: lightingnut on November 29, 2010,
I have some knowledge about this type of light. A couple of things. First, are you talking servos or stepper moters? Stepper moters are much better for pointing the light right where you want it. the big boy fixtures all use Stepper motors.

I would use a white LED and then use a color wheel to make the colors. Not sure if that would be cheaper or not. I know most of the new DJ LED fixtures use a white LED and a color wheel.

Some other items that would be nice to have is a gobo wheel? ( A wheel with patterens stamped in a steel wheel). Another item would be to have rotating gobos. As well as a 3 sided prism that would rotate.

Some of the uses I can think of is if doing a song that talks about say Mary and Joe and you have them in the yard you could point the light at that area of the yard. Kind of like a live theatre show. Another idea is to point them into the air or into the trees. A very cool effect when it is snowing or foggy.
Let me know your thoughts.
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: skulldan on December 29, 2010,
From what I remember (its been awhile since i ahve been around stage/theater lighting) you need a lens and the gobo to be at the focal point to project an image.
Based on what I understand from an earlier comment it is difficult to focus the light coming form the light source in the proposed light.

Although I agree it would be cool to have a gobo-able robolight to use
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: mokeefe on January 15, 2011,
Since I haven't seen much posted here lately, I'm presuming this project is still on the back burner, but I'll make the annual request for any status update.   I do some local community theater tech work and, while this unit certainly won't compare to the multi-thousand dollar commercial instruments, it might have its uses.  I'd also love to use it to add some extra dazzle to my Christmas display.  Thanks.

-Mike
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on January 15, 2011,
Like all the Lynx equipment this would not be avaliable for commerical uses like that. Only personal light shows.

I have not had any time for this project. Other items have been taking my time.

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: mokeefe on January 15, 2011,
Maybe I misunderstood your definition of non-commercial since I assumed the theater example I gave was a non-commercial use as most community theater groups are just a bunch of volunteers who donate their time and enjoy putting on shows. If there are organizations behind them they are usually non-profit groups. 

...and I'd still want them for my own light display  :)

No worries, when time permits, I'll be anxious to see what you come up with. Thanks again for all you do for this community.

-Mike
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: RJ on January 15, 2011,
Maybe one helpful rule of thumb is this. If good local goverment who did their job well might have the fire inspector inspect it, then it is commerical to me. If not then it might be.

Any building where you are putting the equipment inside and people pay to come see it is commercial to me.

if it is a church, rave, movie theather, community hall, community theather, etc it is commerical to me.

This is a liability item. I can not allow people to use this equipment as if it is commerical equipment. It is not UL certified.  It must be built for your use in a personal use for entertainment and education only.

That is just the way it is sorry!

RJ
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: mokeefe on January 16, 2011,
Thanks for clarifying RJ.  I see now your concern is liability, not the monetary aspect.  So really, the key phrase is that these items are for "personal use".  I'm perfectly cool with that. Thanks.

-Mike
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: kpurcell on February 03, 2011,
I'm late to this party. I'm a fairly regular customer of http://www.sparkfun.com/ (http://www.sparkfun.com/) and decided to buy their high power RGB LED with their Free Day money. It uses Luxeon Rebel LEDS in a tri-mount arrangement. It has a couple of reflectors available; wide and flood. Not a very good blend but that could also be addressed with a lens/diffuser forward of the reflector.

http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9738 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9738) - RGB Triple Play $19.95
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9834 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9834) - RGB Driver $48.95
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9733 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9733) - Narrow Lens $5.95
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9798 (http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9798) - Heat Sink $3.95

The driver is extremely expensive and I have reported to them that is about 2X what it should be by looking a the BOM. This is where we could probably see a significant savings. Not saying this is the light engine we should use but another couple data points on finding something suitable. It's also in the approx. $80 range.

Ken
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: wwwgator on January 22, 2012,
It looks like ADJ came up with something.....

http://www.americandj.com/ProductDetails.aspx?Category=&ItemNumber=2067

4 white led each with a Pan and tilt "robo".

Now, if you you use the RGB  Aether II coupled with the Bobcat Servo Controller....


video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90GGBFRcoQs&feature=player_embedded#!
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: mkozik1 on January 22, 2012,
This is cool, but $800 bucks?!?!  Why could you NOT do this with your idea?  It looks as though there are two motors per light.  The 12vAC transformer and other components could be housed in the rail that the lights are connected to giving a single 110vAC cord and CAT5 down to the base.  It would work well with my pirate band for this years Halloween display!!

Do you think the motors are direct drive or belt driven?
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: wwwgator on January 23, 2012,
I heard these were stepper motors, however, I cant see how accurate the positioning would be...

I ordered a bunch of of the bobcat servo boards, some for animated heads, like the 3 axis skulls, but will probably work on combining an aether2 for  aimable floods. may look into narrow beam GB's as well.....

That seams to be the problem with all this stuff.....so many ideas...so little time (focus)....Oh look.....blinky !
think Im suffering from ADD  till the next blinky thing comes along... >.d9
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: mkozik1 on January 23, 2012,
So ... Gator ....  Tell me about using the Bobcat servo boards with your 3-axis skulls.  Have you done it yet?  Work well?  I am currently using the SSC32 with the VSA software and I want to have the ability to bring everything together in one house so that I can program specific timings.  Have a dualing cannon display I am doing this year and it will involve talking, firing cannons, lights, smoke, air, etc and it is rather difficult to do this with multiple programs running!
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: wwwgator on January 24, 2012,
The BobCat thread is here

http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=7731.msg0#new

The Co-op is closed and I believe Mike, busy as he is, is getting close to shipping out the kits/pcb's

Once word gets out about these....Im positive there will be another Co-op very soon.

 I have one skull built, driving it currently with a home brew servo "tester" through an audrino and a couple of joysticks.
 Hope to have another one done in Feb.

The cool part of the BobCat, is that it will drive 8 servos AND 8 channels of LED's...from DMX......all for about $17.00 a board...complete! ( no cases though....you have to be creative)

I'm looking into doing animated carolers similar to robohead  http:\\www.robobones.com

Trying to work out an interace from the BobCat to switch the HF power supply to drive EL wire


There was another post from  maffeirw
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
   Quote

If you decide to use Vixen for your animation ctmal at DIYC wrote a Vixen Add-In and came up with some techniques to help animate 3-axis skulls which might come in handy with any project that involves head and mouth movement.
See these links
Skull Sequencer AddIn
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?15096-Skull-Sequencer-AddIn&highlight=skull+sequencer

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?17329-Jaw-sequencing-an-easier-way!&highlight=skull+sequencer
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: mkozik1 on January 24, 2012,
I guess this is going to be another nail in the coffin for me to move from LOR to Vixen then!  I know there are form C relays that can be driven from the servo line but have nothing from the LED side.  I am in need of this as well so that I can keep one board per animatronic! Let me know what you come up with please  ;D
Title: Robo Light
Post by: rm357 on January 24, 2012,
The circuit should not be difficult, but you need to know what the PWM output on the LED connections looks like first...

Pulse width modulation is a technique that is often used for dimming light sources... PWM is also used to tell the servo what poison it should be in.

RM
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: wwwgator on January 24, 2012,
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The circuit should not be difficult, but you need to know what the PWM output on the LED connections looks like first...

Pulse width modulation is a technique that is often used for dimming light sources... PWM is also used to tell the servo what poison it should be in.

RM

With the EL wire, it's pretty much on or off, you just select sections to light similar to the talking pumpkins you've seen in the videos.  My issue is the power supply is 120VAC to 12VDC wall wart, plugs into the high frequency generator which outputs 177VAC @around 400HZ. Currently, In playing with a 8 section face ( 4 mouth,3 eyes,1 nose)  with 12VDC coil phoenix relays (very small frame/ din rail mount) switching the sections on or off.

Check out www.robobones.com and look on the page for robo head. you get the basic idea......

too many ideas and I'm already running short on time for 2012 halloween and Christmas.....
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: rayster on January 25, 2012,
Why not use a Crydom D2W203F Solid State Relay, 3 volt turn on at 3ma draw.

Ray
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: wwwgator on January 27, 2012,
I use the phoneix because I have easy access to them, plus, if one fails, I just pop it out and insert a new one- no un-wiring anything!

And before you jump, these are some 24V variety I had near my bench. I have 12V set aside...as in no time to assemble them yet.....
Title: Re: Robo Light
Post by: thestig on January 27, 2012,
I am very interested in this project, Everything is way over my head at this point as I have never even messed with servos before. However, I am really interested in building a robohead for the desk just for fun. I might even give it to the wife and let her use it for her decorate the cubicle competition for halloween.

Keep up the good work.


Robohead is awesome.
Title: Robo Light
Post by: rm357 on January 27, 2012,
I understand how the el wire works.

If the PWM on the led output pin goes to 100% on duty cycle with a DMX value of 255 and 0% duty cycle at a value of 0, you could get away with a simple transistor circuit. If the PWM does not go all the way to 0 & 100%, you need something more involved to keep from destroying the el driver circuit.

Without a board to play with, there is no way to tell...

RM