DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx Zeus => Topic started by: tindivall on October 20, 2014,
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I am gearing up, testing new lights for this upcoming year etc... Using same Etherdongle and Zeus 16 (v1) from last year...
run ethernet cable from computer to dongle, nother cable to zues board... plug in 1 100 node string into String 1 area...
Etherdongle is showing green indicator light, I have the ethernet going into the in on the zues... programmer jumper is covering both posts...
Launch the SS Utility v2... select etherdongle, Zeus, select 1 in drop down box, Start channel 1, Individual pixels, forward, node count 100, 0 null, grouping 1, RGB..... Click transmit
The yellow/orange light on etherdongle lights up (solid not flashing ?? I thought last year it was flashing as it was getting the data but could be wrong)....
However nothing outputs to the lights, no flashing white, nothing... dead
Tried a few different sets of lights, checked the fuses.... I am not sure what else to look at so turning to you guys expert opinions
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I guess that I am not understanding exactly what you are saying. What do you mean by saying that the Ethernet is going into the in on the zeus? The Ethernet jack on the ETD should be plugged into the Ethernet jack (RJ45) on the PC. The output of the ETD should be connected to the Zeus input. Make sure that the zeus is set to universe 1 and that the string connected to it is functional and connected correctly. Don't just go be colors on the wires because they tend to change without warning. Also make sure that you are connected to the strings input side and not the output. If you connect to the output side, nothing will happen.
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Apologize for not explaining it well enough...
I my computer -> Ethernet Cable plugged into computer and running to etherdongle (connection with green & orange light) -> Another Ethernet Cable from 2nd plug on etherdongle to the Zues board.
1) I plugged in a string of 100 nodes and attempted to test... got nothing
2) I plugged in that same string using the other end just in case ..... nothing
3) I plugged in a different string.... nothing
4) I got a 120 node strip and connected with arrow pointing away from the zues..... nothing
I am going to attempt connecting a different zues board and see if that works
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1 - is the Zeus powered up?
2 - is the pic on the Zeus flashed with the latest firmware?
3 - Did you verify that the input side of each set of lights to the Zeus?
Do you have any SSC that has test firmware to be able to test the lights themselves ?
Rick R.
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Along with what Rick said, does the PC have an IP address? If not, then assign it one. You may also want to put a switch between the PC and the ETD. This will deal with any need for a crossover cable. Also make sure that the cables are ok.
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ok revisiting this as I got frustrated and just walked away for a bit.... I started using a 2nd Zues board I had it was working fine however getting the same problems now
I am not knowledgeable on how to flash the Zues... I read the article on using the Pickit3 (which I used for the Etherdongle) however I didn't see anywhere to plug the pickit into the Zues... also since the Zues was previously working I would assume that the firmware isn't an issue (but I could be wrong)
The Zues is power on, and yes made sure that the lights were connected from the proper end
I will try the switch and see if that fixes the issue.....
It should be noted that while the lights don't flash white when outputting from the SSUtility V2, when I power off the power supply to the zues board the lights will go white and then fade out as the power goes down.
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Additional update... plugged in my 3rd and final Zues board.... everything is working again.... so obviously not an issue with computer/software, etherdongle, or lights.... something is going on with the Zues boards.....
Maybe firmware??? like Rick said? but seems odd it would be working 1 day... come back the next and it is not.... and as I said not up to speed on how to update the firmware on the Zues.
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I think that the problem was that you used the wrong version of the utility on the Zeus. You should ONLY use the Zeus version of the utility on it and not the SSC version or it will lock up the device and require the PIC's firmware to be re-flashed. There is no ICSP header on the Zeus so the Zeus PIC's need to be re-flashed off of the device. You will need to either use a SSC Ver4 or a separate socket to flash it and either the Pickit-2 or Picket-3 can do it. Make sure that you use the Zeus firmware and that you have the correct version of the utility before configuring it or you will be re-flashing the firmware again.
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Lynx Smart String Utility V2 ... it is the only thing I have downloaded for setting up the lights as I only just got into the hobby last year and only have the 3 zues boards put together atm.
But assuming I do have to re-flash (which I am not opposed to trying) is there a link on the wiki that will walk me through that process? I will have some SSCv4 when the COOP gets mailed out here in a few days.
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Lynx Smart String Utility V2 ... it is the only thing I have downloaded for setting up the lights as I only just got into the hobby last year and only have the 3 zues boards put together atm.
But assuming I do have to re-flash (which I am not opposed to trying) is there a link on the wiki that will walk me through that process? I will have some SSCv4 when the COOP gets mailed out here in a few days.
you can use the smart string utility with the zues capability, you just have to make sure select zues, if you choose ssc, you will have to reflash the pics. I still use the ssc utility with the zues and it works fine, you just have to be conscious of selecting zues, it defaults to ssc's as soon as you open it.
as for flashing the pics, I just went to radio shack and bought a bread board and made my own socket to program my pics since I don't have any ssc v4's. takes 5 minutes to set it up and works great. here is the link for the jumper chart to make your own redneck pic programmer as it's called. here is a picture of my set up. good luck.
http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=J1SYS_boards_jumper_chart
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appreciate the link and info.. I will look into it this information and see if I can understand it or make heads/tails out of it
I would also like to note that I went and looked at my Smart String Utility program to see if I had maybe used SSC instead of Zues... it won't even let me select the SSC... the radio button is only active for Zues and SSC is grayed out.
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Then you have the correct utility. Did you check the fuses on the Zeus?
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So looking at that link it looks like the boards that came with the PICkit 3 are listed there... the ISCP 14 or 28 .... just gotta understand what it all means now :P
tbone, yeah I wondered that myself but checked them and they are good, and they are lighting up when I power down.... I am really thinking something happened and it isn't accepting the data so going to try and get the firmware back on there somehow, just have to figure out/understand how to do it :P
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Here is another thing to try. Take the 485 out of one of the Zeus that is not working and swap it into the one that is and see if it still does. If so, then the 485 is good and if not, then that is your problem. Before swapping a good 485 into one of the failed Zeus units, I would do a few voltage measurements and make sure that everything looks good.
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And you lost me :P I don't know what this 485 you speak of is
As for trying to understand the chart for the adapter ... http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=File:J1SYS_PIC24F04KA200_SSCV4_FIX2.png
From reading that I assume when it says connect x to x (step 2 - 6) I need to have some wire to do that?
Then step 7?? No idea what the ZIF Pin-1 is... assume it is on the Zues board but not sure what / where or how to connect it to the PIC24F04KA200
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The 485 is the 8 pin chip to the left of the input connectors. If you have the ver2 Zeus, then there will be 4 of them. The Ver1 only has 1. As for flashing the chip, I would hold off on that until you check the 485. If you set this up wrong, there is a chance of damaging the PIC. Unless you really need to do this now, I would wait until you get your SSC V4's. They use the same PIC and have an ISCP header. This will allow you to use it to flash your Zeus PIC's safely.
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Ok sounds good.... Yeah I don't want to screw it up and I am not the most handy person... learning as I go here
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I appreciate all of those that have taken the time to attempt to help me solve this.. I am hoping tonight to try the switching of the 485 suggested by tbone
If I take the 485 out of the bad Zues and put in the new and it doesn't work, that would in theory mean the 485 is bad... do I then order a new one through mouser?
Another question... if I do have to re-flash the pic, I read the instructions on how to do it with the SSC but I have to ask... What is the PIC? is that the 485(8 pin socket)? or is it each one of the 14 pin sockets? or something totally different I am not seeing.
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The 485 is the communications chip. If it fails, then the Zeus will be unable to hear any of the commands coming from the ETD. The PIC's are the 16 larger (14 pin) chips. If it were just 1 PIC that has seemed to stop responding then I would suggest a reflash as a possible fix but for 32 of them to suddenly fail ..... unless you used the wrong version of the configuration utility then it is unlikely that they will need to be reflashed. If the 485 turns out not to be the problem, then you can give it a try.
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I hooked up one of the non-working zues and tested again... still nothing
Hooked up the working on.... still working
So took the 485 out of the non-working and put in the working on..... Worked
I don't know....... in other news SSC's came in yesterday! :)
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What version of the Zeus do you have?
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V1
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Ok, here is another thing that you can try. If you have a functioning Zeus, retest it to confirm that it is working. If it is, then take the PIC from the output port that you are testing on and move both it and the string that you are testing with to the same port on one of the bad Zeus units and test that Zeus with the same string and setup that you tested the good one with. If it works, that will confirm that the board and outputs are ok on the bad Zeus and the issue lies with the PICS. If not, then we need to look further into the board on the bad Zeus.
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Ok TBone here is the update... plugged lights into spot 1 on working zeus and tested... work fine
Plugged lights into spot 1 on non-working zeus ... didn't work (which was expected)
Took the PIC from Working Zeus spot 1 and put in spot 1 on non-working Zeus .... Lights Work .. sort of
In the Smart String utility I can program them and get them to flash white... but after powering off the board, moving the jumper, and then running a test in XLights they don't work again (where as on the working Zeus the test in XLights works)????
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Ok, the question then is why did you change the configuration and what exactly do you mean when you say sort of works? The point of this test was to see what happened if you ran the working chip with the working software and working nodes on one of the non working boards. There should be no need to alter the configuration to perform this test. Did you try and run the test prior to reconfiguring the PIC and if so, what happened?
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I think you misunderstand
Using the SSC Utility
I ran the lights on port 1 of the working board..... Flashed White
I ran the lights on port 1 of the non working board..... Nothing
I pulled the PIC from port 1 of working board and put in on non working board
I ran the lights on port 1 of the non working board with PIC from working board..... flashed white
based off that information I would assume the issue is the PICs then
However I went a step further of testing and thought I would share that information as it might help lead to a diagnostics:
with Working Board, Port 1, the working PIC ... I can run lights in XLights test and make go red, blue, etc...
With nonworking board, Port 1, the working PIC which now makes the board working and lights flash white.... I run XLights test and nothing happens
Didn't know if that information would be helpful so that is why I shared.
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Try moving the pic from the good board to the bad board but don't run the Ssc configuration utility just try with xlights. The configuration should be set in the pic already from the good board when you ran it there
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Ok... put good PIC in good board... ran SSC (light flashed)... then ran XLights test.... lights RGB cycled
Took good PIC and put in bad board... ran Xlights test... nothing
Powered off bad board, changed program jumper, powered back on and ran SSC... white flashing lights
Also just for giggles I took the Bad PIC and put in the Good Board... nothing
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Ok, there is a problem with the board and it appears to be the same one that Jim is having with one of his. Did these "defective" boards ever work or were they just built and put away?
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Mine was built and put away.
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Do you guys mean defective pcb? I don't remember any pcbs being bad.
RJ
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Both of the bad boards worked... they were both used last year for christmas show, I also used 1 this summer for a demo (although don't know which of the 2)
1 board wasn't working when I first started testing.
The 2nd board was working ... both flashing white when programming with SSC Utility as well as testing with XLights.... however a couple days later when I went back to test more lights it had stopped working as well.
3rd board has been working fine so far, it is the only board that has never been used (up until now)
All V1 Zues boards form the very 1st COOP
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Do you guys mean defective pcb? I don't remember any pcbs being bad.
RJ
When I was saying a bad board, I was referring to the unit as a whole instead of just a specific part on it. I believe that your input here may be required. The testing so far is showing that this issue is not the actual PIC's or the output sections. This leaves either the input or the clocking of the PIC's as the probable cause. Without the schematic, there is no easy way to determine what the probable cause is.
When you put a functioning PIC on the non-functioning unit, it no longer functions. If you hook it up to the configuration utility and set the unit to program mode, it will flash the nodes, indicating that the input is working and showing that the output works. When you switch back to run mode, the PIC still does not respond to commands. If you then put this PIC back into the working unit, it no longer functions. This indicates to me that while in program mode in the non-functioning unit, the data being loaded is not being loaded properly and is corrupting the PIC.
My question is could the clock oscillator circuit cause these issues?
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The Functioning PIC when put back in the working board continues to operate correctly
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Recap so far :
Have 3 V1 Zues boards... 2 were used in last years show & 1 never used
This year those 2 are not working, can't get them to flash in program mode
The 1 unit not used last year works fine. By taking the PIC out of the working unit and placing in the bad unit I can then get it to flash in program mode, however can not get any output when changed to run mode.
The Working PIC can then be placed back in the working board and it operates correctly both in programming and running mode.
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Ok, here is another test. Take the PIC from the working unit and put it into the non-working one. Use the config utility and change some of the settings such as the starting channel. Then put the PIC back into the working unit and see if it is still working and if the configuration changes took effect. If so, then we know that the communications side appears to be fully functional and the issue appears to be pointing more to the clock.
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Just to confirm on this test.... take the PIC from spot 1 on working unit... put in Spot 2 on the non-working.... program the PIC .... then move it back to the Working unit Spot 2 and see if it works?
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Yes, this is correct. Make a change that you will be able to see such as changing the start address or the grouping on the nodes and see if the new configuration takes hold when you put the PIC back into the working unit. This will confirm that the input side is fully functional if it works.
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Make sure the firmware and utility are correct and the latest. We had a issue earlier on that created these kind of issues. It was when the utility was sending data for a ssc to the Zeus it would corrupt due to the data being different. These odd issues sound like what you are seeing.
RJ
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I thought the same thing initially but if that were the case, then the working PIC from the working unit would also work in the failed unit and that is not what is happening. He also said that the utility that he is using has the SSC option disabled which is the most current utility for the Zeus.
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Question the boards that work last season and now don't. Have you tried to reflow the solder joints? Might be a cold solder joint.
Rick R.
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tbone didn't get to test last night but will attempt tonight and let you know
rrowan I have not but I wouldn't think they would work at all if that was the case, and via tbone's testing we have gotten them to flash so to me that would eliminate that option.
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I had to walk away from this for a bit because it is just so darn frustrating.....
Ok I did the test TBone asked... took a PIC from Working Board Spot2 and put in Spot 1 on nonworking board and attempted to program it.... then moved to Spot 1 on working board ... nothing
I finally got SSC's built and flashed one of the pics from a non working board.... plugged back into working board... it worked. Turned off board, turn back on... nothing
Took same chip and reflashed again.. plugged into working board.. works... turn off board and turn back on.. still works
So reflashed a 3rd time... put in non working board.. works... turn off and back on doesnt work.... so took out and put in working board (without reflashing) and doesn't work.
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I am having a similar issue. Had 1 working all day yesterday and today. Built a second one and got that working. Went back to the 1st one just to make sure and nothing. Will try re flashing all the picks and re program.
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re flashed all picked and then was able to re program and seems to be working now
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I can try doing all the pics, I have just been doing 1 at a time
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My Zeus issues ended up all being related to faulty 3 pin connectors ... Now I test then for connectivity on all three wires before using them ...
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Still a no go with the 2 previously working boards.... So I said screw it... busted out 3 V1 Zues boards that I hadn't put together yet.... so far have 2 of them together .... test both those...nothing
green light powers on the board but no output when testing...
pulled the PIC out of these boards and put on the 1 working board.... pic works fine. Take a pic from the working board put in on the non working board.... still nothing
pull the small chip (??486?) off non working board and put on working board..... works fine..... taking working one and put on non-working board ... nothing
I about ready to introduce these boards to some lighter fluid and give up this hobby <md..
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Did you try swapping out the power supply for a different one? When a functioning board stops working after shutting down and restarting, that in many cases indicates a low voltage somewhere. If you are using the same supply with al of these different boards and NONE of them work properly, that is another indicator of an issue of an issue with the one common point, the power supply.
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I spent the better part of today troubleshooting issues ... And found my Zues v2 was not getting data because of a bad cat5 cable. Then would not pass on pixelnet, again a bad cat5 cable. So I can't emphasize enough the criticality of the cat5 cables.
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I am using the same power supply / cat5 cable / etc.... for each board....
For example.... Working board setup....
- unplug the cat5 from it and plug into non-working board
- unplug the power supply from working board and plug into non-working board
- unplug the lights from working board and plug into non-working board
I do all of this to try and eliminate any other possibility of things like a bad cat5 cable etc.
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This is exactly my point. If you have a defective power supply, then it is going to make ALL of the boards malfunction. When all or most of the boards are having the same issue(s), an initial step in debugging is to confirm that all of the items that they have in common and are being shared are functioning properly. This includes the bench setup and that includes things such as cables and power supplies. Once this is confirmed, then you stick with the known working setup so that you don't introduce added and changing variables during the debugging process. I would confirm that the CAT5 cables are good and swap out that power supply to confirm that it is not the problem.
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Either I don't understand what you are saying or you are not understanding me
I have the working board... board works. I use the same power supply, cat5 cables, & lights from the working board as I do on the non-working board....I don't introduce any new cables / lights / connectors / power supply (because I know the stuff works on the 1 board)
I think we are saying the same thing? but if not let me know
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The problem is that it seems to be working for only the one board and none of the others. This indicates a possible problem. IIRC, you said that you built two more boards (VER1) and they don't work either. Unless you are doing something wrong in these builds, the cables and power supply are the only common links.
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I can use a different power supply and cables but there is no way to know if they work or not if the board doesn't work, so would just have to hook them up to the working board first and see ... but would be same results as I am getting now from working board... works
Also keep in mind the 2 original boards worked and then just stopped, so doubtful that the power supply & cables just went bad for those 2 but continued to work for the 1 (using the same power supply / cables )
The new boards introduce a whole different set of potential variables, could be bad soldering, something not wired correctly etc....
I am just trying to get 2 working boards to control the mega tree so I then can go work on the SSC and figure all that out :P
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I will go home and record the exact steps and the boards, maybe you guys will see something I am doing or did wrong.
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What if you post pics of the board not that it is bad soldering but it could be a part backwards ( that's an example) some of these guys can see a lot just by pics. It might help . Just my 2 cents.
Joe
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Apologize I was not able to get the videos done and uploaded last night.. however here they are:
1st Video...
- I setup the working board to show the power supply, cat5 cable, etc.. are all working
- I then use the exact same power cable, cat5 cable, etc... but different board...... nothing working
http://youtu.be/nNx2uWk4r0E (http://youtu.be/nNx2uWk4r0E)
2nd Video....
- I setup the working board again
- I pull the PIC that is working from working board
- Setup 2nd board (non-working) using the PIC from working board and now the 2nd board works
- Power off the board and then power back on .... stops working
- Put PIC back in working board and it no longer works
- Flash the PIC with SSC V4 and place back in working board.... works fine
http://youtu.be/0gMi2F9aHEE
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This is screaming "clocking issue" but without a scope, it will be very difficult to determine what went wrong. The first thing that I would suggest is to NOT use the config utility to check for communications. This forces the chip to write to it's internal memory and that can corrupt the chips config and every time you reflash it, you take more life out of the chip.
In order to get an idea of what the issue is, I would remove ALL of the PIC's from the malfunctioning Zeus. Then I would get a configured, functioning, and tested PIC put it on the non functioning Zeus by itself and lets try it in socket 4. Then connect up the string of nodes that you tested the PIC with to that port, connect up the ETD and power supply, remove the program jumper and see if the PIC functions using sequencing software such as Vixen or Xlights running a test patterns and NOT the config utility. If not, move the PIC and string to a few more positions and see if any of them work. If not, then there is a pretty good bet that either the clock oscillator has failed or the signal is either being blocked or interfered with. If it does work, then start adding PIC's one at a time and retest after adding each one. If it stops working after adding a PIC, try swapping that PIC with another one and see what happens. If it works with the different PIC, that PIC is probably defective and is killing the clock signal and if not, then either there is something wrong with that position on the board or there is something pulling the signal down to a point where the load of X number of PIC's pulls the signal down too low for the PIC's to clock properly.
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I was having same problems then pulled the pics and ran it on the pickit3 and the check sum was no longer 0020 erased the chips and reprogramed them all again so the checksum was 0020 verified reinstalled them and worked for 5 days then show started lagging mega tree locked up pulled the pics again read them on pickit3 and the checksum had changed again no longer 0020 pulled them all reprogramed ,reflashed and reinstalled them and has been good ever since its a pain doing it in the yard but better then breaking it down
anyway I am not a computer guy but worked for me just trying to help check the checksum should be 0020
John
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The Zeus chips store their starting address and configuration in program memory so if you change anything, the checksum will also change. The checksum listed in the WIKI is only to confirm that the firmware file is ok and that the initial flash was successful.
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Once you program a PIC, it will no longer have the 020 hex ... but I check it for 020 ... and if its still showing 020, then I know I can then program it with the SS Zeus utility.
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Like I said not a computer guy lol that's why I guess all the check sum changed although when I took them out of the zues and read them on the pickit3 one of them was still reading 0020 anyway that's what I did and now working good for now