DiyLightAnimation
Fun => The Porch => Topic started by: chadowamsley on December 17, 2014,
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Hello,
I was looking to see if I could possibly get a little input for a pixel tree. I have one in my head, but I want to get opinions if the tree layout is good, number of nodes per string is good, should tree be taller, bigger diameter or what not. Im just trying to get this worked out in my head before ordering anything and to keep me from going over and over it.
Looking at a 10' tree, 32 strings with 42 pixels, either a 180 or 270 degree tree, base diameter of 9', spacing of strings on bottom ring around 5.29 inches, with each pixel around 3.13" apart center to center.
Hoping to get my head wrapped around the Zues 16 and using that for the tree. Keep looking and reading what I can find on the Zues 16 as far as programming and everything with it.
Looking for a nice tree for effects, maybe some pictures and text. Wanting to make sure the tree is full enough for that, but at the same time not over kill and wasting money on extra that is not needed. I see videos of trees, but not many list the tree layout to compare. Would like to keep the tree between 10 - 15' tall max.
Forgot to add that Im looking to use the smart strings, 1804 I believe.
Any help or comments will be appreciated.
Thank you
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what your wanting sounds very similar to my tree. your base width might be a little wide for a 10' tree. my tree is 12.5 tall from where the lights start. 14.5' over all, 8' wide and it is on a 180 design. my tree is 32 strings, 50 nodes each string, spaced just under 5inches between strings, running two zues 16. if you maintain your node count of 42 per string, you will be able to use one zues, and stay in one universe( wish i would have done the math a little more and used your node count idea). you would set it up in nutcracker as:
1. 180 tree
2. number of strings = 16
3. rgb nodes per string = 84
4. number of strands per string= 2
string one starts in left or right corner, folded in half to get 42/42 and goes up down. node one being at the bottom, and the top of string two which will descend starts with 43.
string 2 same thing. starts with node 85 at bottom and 127 starting down.
you should be happy with your node count and height ideas. i would probably bring my base ring in from 9' so that you get a tighter pattern on your strings. check into the jump pole design here at this link. a lot of people are using it and i am going to switch mine next year to something like this. http://www.magicchristmas.org/monkhouse-jump.html
as long as your budget don't get in the way, sounds like you are on your way. plan on about a grand for your idea between lights, zues, power supply, battery box, pole, wire, etc...
the video on my facebook page is not good at all, (better videos coming soon) but it can give you an idea of what a 32 string, 50 node per string, 12.5' tall 8' wide tree looks like. facebook link below. have fun!
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I prefer a tree shape that has a diameter that is 1/2 the height.
I used plastic strips from the DIYC forum and they worked GREAT to provide consistent spacing.
I used 2" spacing... the tree was shorter due to this density, but it looked great with that density.
48 strings of 85 pixels, one strand per string. 270-degrees.
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The rule of thumb for a tree is that the base diameter is 1/2 the height. A little bigger sometimes looks ok, but yours is way to big at the bottom and will not look proportioned.
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I'll probably raise the height a little and adjust the base ring accordingly. If I was to go with 32 strings of 50, 16 hundred node strings, can one zues still handle that? I thought I read somewhere the v2 was able.
The magic Christmas link is what I was using for some spacing measurements.
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I'll probably raise the height a little and adjust the base ring accordingly. If I was to go with 32 strings of 50, 16 hundred node strings, can one zues still handle that? I thought I read somewhere the v2 was able.
The magic Christmas link is what I was using for some spacing measurements.
Yes the sues v2 will work for 1600 nodes. It wasn't available when I built mine
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Zeus v1 max is 16 strings... each string can be a max of 128 pixels --- however you are limited to one universe of 4096 channels or 1365 pixels.
I dont know that v2 changes this.
Zeus v2 fixes this.
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For your planned tree you would have to split the 16 strings between two Pixelnet universes using any combination of 100 node strings. The Zeus v2 allows each string to be on any of the 4 universes so you would set it up so at least 3 strings are on one universe and the remaining on a second (i.e. Universe 1 with 13 strings (1300 nodes) & Universe 2 with 3 strings (300 nodes)). Just make sure your power supply is large enough (about 60 amps if just powering the tree) to handle the load.
I put up my pixel tree before the Zeus 16 v2 was released so I kept it down to 1320 nodes but as the proud owner of a prototype v2, I am reconsidering this for next year. :)
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Thank you for the replies. I have alittle idea on the tree layout after reading comments, looking at links and reading.
I still have a ton to read and learn about the zues, pixels and power for the stuff. A bit different from just giving power to my Renard boards and letting them go.
The Zues boards power the pixels the same as the hubs and ssc ? The videos I've watched show 128 pixels being powered without injection. Just making sure because most other boards that Ive seen, not on this site, say they are limited to less.
An e dongle is needed also I know, and ssc for programming chips with a pickit3.
Is there more written information on the Zues boards? Talking about programming, how to connect other pixelnet controllers to run with it and such. I can't find Much info when I'm trying to look and rather look basic stuff up myself instead of asking such basic questions.
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Yes, Zeus integrates the hub and SSC function. Zeus is a great solution if all of your strings are localized to the same area.
Alternatively, the SSC is great for arches, stars, and other things that are separated by greater distances. The twisted pair cabling that connects a hub to the SSC can do 300ft whereas the wire that connects the first pixel to a controller should only be 6ft (10ft in some cases).
128 pixels is the max based on the firmware choices that RJ has made. This was in part to keep things simple (no injection needed) and to be safe (not placing too much current over the wires in a cat5 cable.
BTW... The hubs, and controllers (not SSC) have an input connector that accepts 4 pairs of wire that carry 4 universes (4x4096=16384 channels). The hubs and controllers also have 2 pixelnet output connectors that pass that same 4 pairs to another controller/hub.
The DMX and pixelnet solution is a "bus"... each controller is able to listen into the same universe and pull off the channels that it is configured to read. It passes all of the SAME channel data on to the next controller/hub. This means that you can have many things sharing the same universe, placed in any physical order -- regardless of channel number. It ALSO means that multiple props can listen to the same channels -- like a mirror of your pixel tree on the other side of the driveway -- or a few dozen pixel candy canes that listen to the same 3 (or 6? or more?) channels.
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So with the Zues 16, each chip is programmed with the channel information ? Tring to understand how the channels are output by controller. I understand it as each chip is programmed with that channels information. Im getting ahead of myself with this question, but wondering because the following year Im looking to add some active hubs with sscs for mini trees and arches. If next year works out with the pixel tree of course.
I am getting ready to order a Zues 16 and was wondering if the linked power supply would be good for powering the controller as well as 32 strings of 42 pixels. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139051&cm_re=corsair_power_supply-_-17-139-051-_-Product
Im looking to get a board built and a couple strings ordered for testing and getting my feet wet.
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each port on the zeus has its own PIC (chip) and each is configured independently. each can have a different color order, pixel order (forward/reverse) and number of pixels.
that power supply should be good... find the power used by each pixel... let's say .3W and multiply it out by the number of pixels.... .3W x 32 strings x 42 pixels = 403W.
This 750W supply has a breakdown by the different voltages... the details show: 12V@62A, which is 12V x 62A = 744W
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When doing your planning, try to use no more than 80% of the rated output. 744 x 80% = 595W.
In this scenario... with a hypothetical pixel drawing .3W your tree (403W) could be handled by the 80% of the rated capacity: 595W
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Thanks for the replies. I'm waiting until I take my lights down to actually measure the tree I want to build. I think this little bit of information here is enough to get me going.
You all have a Merry Christmas
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Looks like I'll probably be needing more close to a 270 degree tree. Also, viewing distance will be 50-75 feet.
For a ten foot tree with 32 strings of 42 pixels at around 3 inch spacing, more strings with more pixels for tighter pixels might be needed but not sure. Just want to make sure most effects, texts or whatever is legible.
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I see a lot of folks using a 180-degree tree, but I am very pleased with my 270-degree tree. My tree is visible for quite a distance in both directions along the road, and having more surface area as you approach the tree in each direction helps a lot IMO.
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It depends on your location, but for me 180 trees work just perfectly. My big tree is 48 (w) x 64 (h) and it the best for graphics. My two newer 180 trees are only a little over 10' each and are 24 (w) x 42 (h) and can do 80% as much at half the cost ... and are a lot easier to set up and take down, being smaller and lighter.
You really can't see these pixel trees on the backside and the nodes are very directional. So unless you have viewers from those angles ... its kind of waste of money to do more than 180 unless you have to.
My Dad's design is also for a tip-up 180 tree ... where we put the lights on in the tilted-down position, then tilt it up and guy wire it out. Its a very good design ... and everything is about 1/2 the size, weight and build materials.
I'll be doing a video sometime in January of the entire show and these trees will be in that video.
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I was going to go with a 180 but it is viewable from the side also, so need a 270. My tree will be right around 10' high plus a topper. I was planning 32x42 for 180, but with a 270 I think I might need to go with 48x42 or maybe more per strand. Was easier placing when I threw four different colors together and lifted in the air.
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I live on a corner so *IF* I were to make a pixel tree, I would do 270, otherwise 180 is sufficient for most applications.
I also agree with making the base smaller. My mega tree (not pixel tree) is 12 feet high with ~6 foot diameter (ring is made of two 10 foot pieces of electrical conduit inserted into each other).
Taybrynn's tree is nice and looks very "clean". The nodes are in PVC and attach to the metal frame. It scrolls text and pictures no problem. The videos don't do it justice.
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I just watched one of Taybrynns videos, only one pixel tree, looks outstanding. Im guessing that is his 180 degree tree with 48 x 64. Im not sure on his height, but waiting to see his smaller trees.
Im leaning towards a 10' tree, 270 degrees for viewing on both streets, with 48x42 or 48x64 and two zues16. I have a friend with a cnc who will be making my hook head. Probably order some of James strips from DIYC for the strings to sit in. Waiting for more videos before I pull the plug on buying nodes. In the meantime, playing with different software to get a feel for what works for me.
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I have been following this thread for a while & will also build a Pixel tree next year.
My question is what do you mean by:
48x42 or 48x64
I plan to use these Pixels.
http://www.holidaycoro.com/Smart-Pixel-LED-RGB-8mm-12mm-Nodes-12v-DC-p/711.htm
Mike
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48 strands with each having 42 pixels or 48 strands with each having 64 pixels.
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I use this tool every year for figuring out base diameter and string spacing. Keep in mind the number of strings are based off a 360 tree, so if you want a 180 tree string spacing double the number you enter.
http://www.altoonalights.com/mega/mega_calc.php
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Yes I have used that site as well as some formulas found at magicchristmas.com with his color motions tree.
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Looks like I will be building my tree just over ten foot tall. I will have 48 stands of 64 nodes spaced every 2 inches. I will be using two Zeus 16 controllers. Tree will be a 270 with viewing distance of around 50 feet. Hopefully two inch spacing is good for pictures and at the same time not over kill causing it to be to bright. Ill be using some of James strips from diyc to mount the pixels.
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very similar to what I did... mine worked very well for me.
if you use nutcracker, I suggest that you bring the model intensity down to 20%... the viewers will not see a difference, but the cameras will handle it better.
earlier I thought my filming was all that mattered regarding intensity... but i now think others might also take video -- so why not keep it at 20% all the time!
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I am currently looking at a 48 strand 180 degree tree and I wanted to bring up some possible problems you may run into.
Topper size:
The nodes are approximately 1/2 inch wide and even if they had nothing between them like Jame's strips it would be a minimum of 10.2" diameter topper.
Based on 1/2" per node a circumference of 48 nodes in 270 degrees is 32". This equates to the 10.2"
When the nodes are in the strips if you overlap them you have an additional ~ 1/4" that you have to figure in. My quick calculations based off actual measurements I made and converting to your 270 degree tree, I come up with a 17.2" diameter topper minimum, but I would check the math.
Pixelnet universes:
You state you plan on using 2 Zeus 16 controlllers. You will have to use v2 of the Zeus because your 48 strands of 62 nodes = 2976 nodes = 8928 channels / 4096 channels per pixelnet universe = access to at least 3 universes unless you overlap channels. This is also assuming you are going to fold strands (i.e. 1 controller for 124 nodes and fold in the middle because you only have 32 outputs). You might want to go down to 60 nodes which would get you down to 2 universes of pixelnet.
You may also run into problems with differences in pixel color with a run of 124 pixels. The last pixel and the first pixel will be next to each other so it may be noticeable. You may need to do power injection at the end of the string.
The other thing I would say is that I found the main problem with pixel spacing was not the vertical spacing but the horizontal spacing. I went with 3" spacing and it was good vertically but horizontally was where my resolution lacked. That is why I am planning on going from 24 strands to 48 strands for 2015.
I can send you a rough document I typed up talking about pixels and my megatree if you would like, just send me a PM.