DiyLightAnimation
Fun => The Porch => Topic started by: NickWaka7 on February 11, 2015,
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Hey guys! I have been looking into smart strings lately and I decided Id like to give them a try. I've spent some time in the wiki researching all of the information in there, but I am still not quite sure what I will need to have an operating SS system. Here is how I think it works:
Computer > USB Pixelnet Dongle > Active Hub > SSC > SS
Did I miss anything? Any information I should know? Also, what is the difference between active and passive hubs, and do WS2811 SSs work with the SSCs found here on the forum? I noticed it said it could be compatible, but I do not understand the chipset part.
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Your configuration is correct you could however use an etherdongle instead of USB pixelnet dongle.
If your doing mega trees or a bunch of smart strings very close you will want to use a Zeus instead of the active hub.
The passive hub doesn't have Dmx output and I'm pretty sure it connects to the active hub and adds another 16 ports for SSC.
The ws2811 chip works with the SSC on the strip you can only control every 3 LEDs which works perfect for arches, roofline and outlining the house. If you get the ws2811 string each node is controllable
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Here is the link for the comparison chart for equipment which will help you decide if you need to use Zeus or active hub.
http://www.diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=SSC_Comparison
PC>dongle>Zeus>ss
With the Zeus you don't need a SSC but the ss must be within 8ft for pixels and 15ft for strips
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There is nothing wrong with using the USB dongle but it will only supply 1 PixelNet Universe which consists of 4096 channels. This would allow you to control up to 1365 nodes. The smart string system that we use runs on 12V so make sure that the SS that you use is a 12V string. The WS2811 will work with our SSC. The difference between the active and passive hub is that the active hub has a PixelNet to DMX converter and the passive hub does not. Power for the nodes and the SSC's is supplied by the hub and it can get its power from either a single rail ATX computer power supply or a regulated 12V only supply with an add on kit for the hub. As stated above, the Lynks smart string equipment runs on a protocol knows as PixelNet so if you use a UXB dingle, make sure that it can support and output PixelNet.
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Thanks for the clarification guys! A few more questions. Can and active hub be hooked up to another active hub? And can a zeus and a hub daisy chain as well? Im trying to figure out my setup. I want to use smart strings on my roof with caps so they look like traditional c9/c7, but since you can only have a maximum of 128 nodes per ssc, im going to have to have at least to hubs; one for the left side of the house and one for the right.
Now since usb pixelnet is a single universe, if I went with the ethernet option, could I still use my laptop to program the show? The ethernet option is still pretty alien to me as well. Im not quite sure how it works.
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You can daisy chain multiple hubs and zeus devices together without a problem.
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Yes, as Jim said, both the Hubs and the Zeus can daisy chain. You can have multiple active hubs in the chain if you need them. One nice thing about the SSC is that you can reverse the channel order. This will allow you to put the SSC's on opposite ends of the run but still sequence the nodes in sequential order which makes things much easier at times. Most sequencing software today supports E1.31 so you should have no problem using your PC to program and run the show. The EtherDongle (EDT) is a E1.31 device and outputs 4 PixelNet universes.
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Ok sounds good.
so If I wanted to go with the Ethernet option just to have those more channels for the future, how would I go about hooking all of this up? Like I said, I create my shows on a laptop, so how would I connect it? What unit(s) do I need to get up and running? Ive estimated that my roof alone will need 1500+ channels because I have a 2 story home, and I want to create some smart arches and pillars which will be a few more thousand. The ethernet thing still confuses me. Im just use to my dmx dongle doing the work for me haha! Can I push play on my computer and watch it live like with a dmx dongle?
Also, I noticed someone used a Rasberry Pi B+ to run their show and they used smart pixels. How does this work?
Once again thanks for all of the help! It's a lot to learn.
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The etherdongle puts out 4 universes on a single cat5 cable which is then connected to your hub depending on what universe you want to be on you would just change the jumper on your hub.
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Just to be clear the etd puts out 4 pixelnet universes which is equivalent to 32 dmx universes. The Raspberry Pi can support more than 64000 channels and is just a player, you sequence in your choice of software and then convert to the pi using xlights or some software will actually create the format that the pi needs to play such as Vixen 3. To use the etd you go PC to network to etd - active/passive/zeus - sscs/lights. Really very simple.
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You also need to include the fact that the Falcon Player is not really all that different than the PC. While it may handle more than 64000 channels, it DOES NOT have the ability to directly control anything. It, like the PC, still needs to be connected to some type of dongle to output to the controllers such as an ETD, a USB dongle, or the Falcon Controller.
Hooking it up is not all that big of a deal. The ETD is an E1.31 device and uses Ethernet to connect it to the PC running the show. The issue is that most implementations of E1.31 is a multicast protocol which means that the packets will flood your network since switches will need to send these packets to all ports on the switch. You can get around this by either directly connecting the PC to the ETD or getting low cost 10/100 switch and creating a separate network for the controlling the PC and ETD(s). The connection between the ETD and the controllers is NOT Ethernet. It uses the same wiring as would be used between the USB dongle and the controllers. As already said, the ETD puts out 4 PixelNet universes, 1 on each of the 4 pairs of wire in the Cat5 cable and the hubs and Zeus have jumpers to select which universe it is working with.
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So from the wiki diagrams, ive (hopefully) concluded that it goes:
Pc > ethernet dongle > hubs/zues... so on.
-The dongle needs its own power supply?
- Can I use a USB-> Ethernet adaptor?
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Not only does it need its own power supply, it needs a big one. The hub is what distributes power to the SSC's and smart strings as well so you could be pulling over 50A on a well loaded hub. I think that is just a little above the recommended max output from a USB connection. ;) ATX PC power supplies are very powerful for their cost which is why both the Hubs and Zeus were designed to use them. It is recommended that you get a single rail supply.
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So the dongle and the hubs need power? I knew the hubs need one, but according to a diagram in the wiki, the EtherDongle needs an AC power supply.
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LOL, sorry, I read dongle and saw hub. Yes, the dongle uses a separate power supply and not a USB connection. The reason are that the dongle doesn't need to be anywhere near the PC and if you install the conductor daughter card, then it doesn't need a PC at all. I don't think that a USB adapter would supply enough voltage for the built in 5V regulator and if it drops out, then so does the 3.3V regulator that supplies the voltage for the PIC's.
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So if I wanted to see the show live, i would have to use a daughter board to play the show via an sd card? A big thing for me is seeing it live while I work on it. The display window in vixen 3 just isnt enough all the time.
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It really depends on what you mean by live. Remember, the ETD is an Ethernet device so it does NOT have to be directly connected to the computer. It just has to be on the same network. There is no reason that you can't run the show from Vixen while you are working on it. Just have the ETD and controllers hooked up and select the output to lights while running the show.
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Oh see I did not know about that. Like I said, ETD is alien to me
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Just keep in mind that the EtherDongle is just an Ethernet dongle, (kinda where it gets its name). It works for the most part just like a USB dongle. The only real difference is how it connects to the PC. Where a USB dongle connects directly to the PC and needs to be within a few feet of it, the ETD is an Ethernet device and can be anywhere on the network.
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So If im using a ETD, I can control my show wirelessly?
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Well..... that depends on your wireless router. E1.31 was initially developed using the multi-cast protocol and that is what the ETD uses. Some wireless routers will broadcast it and others will not. If your does, then you can control it wirelessly but it will put a heavy demand on your network.
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Yes, if you did it one of two ways:
1. Have your Etherdongle plug into your network (switch, router, etc.) and then use a laptop with a wireless connection to the same network. Many people do this to "tweak" there shows from there front yards.
2. You can use a wireless access point with the ehterdongle provided your wireless network can transmit mulitcast AND your wireless access point can receive multicast.
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Thanks guys for the input! It is all making sense now and I am working on creating my first SS system.
What ATX power supply would work good for the hubs/zeus? I heard I could us 12v dc, but I want a nice power supply that can hold a semi heavy load. I have figured out that I will run my roof off of an active hub and my ground effects off of a Zeus 16 string. I wanted to see what you guys have done/used and go from there. I would like to use flexible power supplies that will supply enough power for a growing show.
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Any single rail power supply that has enough amperage to power your strings. I used this one but it is overkill: http://tinyurl.com/mghyokz
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Any single rail power supply that has enough amperage to power your strings. I used this one but it is overkill: http://tinyurl.com/mghyokz
What do you mean overkill? And would I need one supply per hub/zeus?
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1000W ATX supplies are a little on the $$$$$ side and if you don't need that much power, then it is a bit of overkill. I would stay away from the "bargain" supplies. With the rapidly changing demands we put on them during the show, the cheap ones tend to show you why they are so cheap which may not be so good for your show. Yes, each of the units will need its own supply. While there are ways to have them share a supply, it actually costs less to have two 700W supplies than one 1000W and the two 700's have more available power.
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Would this be a good product to go with? Any other brands that might be suitable? I do not mind spend a little extra money on a supply that is going to last me a while.
http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Builder-Bronze-Certified-Supply/dp/B008RJZQSW/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1424128608&sr=8-5&keywords=atx+700w+power+supply
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Nothing wrong with it, but it has a ton of extra connectors on it that you don't need and they will get in the way. Connectors are one of the reasons I am going to switch all my hubs over to the 12v option. Then I only have 2 wires going from my power supply (non-PC) to my boards. I have 3 of these that I am currently using
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182200 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182200)
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Everything has it's good and bad points but when you go with the 12V only supplies, you need to add the 12V option to your equipment and you will need to put some HEAVY wire between your 12V supply and the device, especially if there is some distance between the supply and what you are powering. All of the those connectors help to share the load and the ones that you don't use can be taken care of with a zip tie.
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When it comes to the two options, which seems to be more durable, powerful, long lasting, etc? I know they both have their pros and cons, but which is..... a "safer" bet?
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That is really going to be a matter of opinion since both have their advantages and disadvantages. The primary advantages of the ATX supply is their durability and warranty that they have. They supply all of the voltages that the hub or Zeus requires without the need of adding those regulators to the device. The disadvantages are that the big ones can get a bit expensive and they tend to have a lot of connections that are not used by our equipment and seem to just get in the way. You also can't adjust the 12V output which can lead to issues with some of the poorly designed nodes out there.
The primary advantages to many of the 12V only supplies is cost and the ability to adjust their 12V output. I have seen many 40A 12V supplies selling for around $20.00 which is less than many ATX supplies with similar power outputs. They also don't have any wires coming out of them so there are no extra cables to get in the way. The disadvantages are that they don't have many wires coming out of them which includes the power cord. IOW, you need to supply your own. You also will need to add the extra components to the hubs and Zeus to supply them with the 5V and 3.3V that they also need. With many of these, quality is not the #1 concern and they have no warranty to speak of but for that price, what do you really expect. You also need to use some heavy gauge wire between the supply and the device, especially is there is any distance between them or you can expect some substantial voltage drops.
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Thanks for all of the replies! It is all making sense and I am currently working on a nice setup.
One more quick question. This year I decided to use a USB Pixelnet dongle since I am not using a lot channels yet. I noticed that Vixen 3 does not support this dongle yet since most people use ETD. I have been looking into the LOR software. I like what it has to offer, plus I really like the new star program that you can also get. I was wondering if the LOR software works with our products, especially the pixelnet dongle.
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If you are looking at LOR and especially Star, you may want to taka a closer look at XLights and Nutcracker. LOR is good software but is not free and Star IIRC, is a rather expensive add-on. Nutcracker has the abilities of the Star add-on and more and costs nothing. Being that it is so early in the year, you have the time to experiment a little and IMHO, it is better to experiment with the free options first.
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How can i sequence my effects if vixen 3 doesnt support usb pixelnet
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I believe that you can convert your Vixen 3 sequences to XLights which does support the USB dongle. I would go into the XLights and nutcracker forums here and post this question.
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I'd highly recommend using the Falcon Pi Player (FPP) on a raspberry pi for your show PC. I successfully outputted sequences from both XLights and Vixen3 to the FPP. My show ran without hiccups this year because i purchased the raspberry pi. The previous year I had issues with my show PC freezing the sequence half way through the night. Or had issues with the scheduler not starting on other nights. The FPP was the best investment I made last season. :)
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While FPP is a good setup, it really is just a PC replacement and still needs an output device which in this case, would still be the USB dongle.
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How can i sequence my effects if vixen 3 doesnt support usb pixelnet
Sequencing and playing are really two separate things. Most sequencers can also playback or you can use a player like xLights or FPP to play your sequences. xLights also has Nutcracker built in so you can sequence there as well.
I believe that you will probably see Vixen 3 supporting the Lynx USB dongle with PixelNet firmware this year sometime. There was a conversation a few weeks ago over on diychristmas.org where we talked about the protocol requirements to talk to the USB dongle because there was interest in adding support.
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I believe that you will probably see Vixen 3 supporting the Lynx USB dongle with PixelNet firmware this year sometime. There was a conversation a few weeks ago over on diychristmas.org where we talked about the protocol requirements to talk to the USB dongle because there was interest in adding support.
+1 to that. "Some Guy" over there posed the question. "Some Guy" is my alter ego over on that board, since the uncreative name of "Gary" was already in use when I signed up over there. I prefer to channel my creative powers towards my sequencing instead. ;D The Vixen 3 team seems to be working very hard on improving the software.
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?37599-USB-Pixelnet-Dongle-in-Vixen-3
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I believe that you will probably see Vixen 3 supporting the Lynx USB dongle with PixelNet firmware this year sometime. There was a conversation a few weeks ago over on diychristmas.org where we talked about the protocol requirements to talk to the USB dongle because there was interest in adding support.
+1 to that. "Some Guy" over there posed the question. "Some Guy" is my alter ego over on that board, since the uncreative name of "Gary" was already in use when I signed up over there. I prefer to channel my creative powers towards my sequencing instead. ;D The Vixen 3 team seems to be working very hard on improving the software.
http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums/showthread.php?37599-USB-Pixelnet-Dongle-in-Vixen-3
LOL, that's why I use the name tbone321 instead of just tbone which has been used in a few forums already. I find it easier to use the same name on multiple forums, especially if they are based on the same subject matter.