DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Other Projects => Topic started by: Blackbeard on October 30, 2009,
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RJ,
It's kinda off the wall thinking, but do you think you might ever design an 8 channel LE board. I'm sure I could just use a 16 channel LE, but what a waste of the other 8 channels. The price might not be that much different from the normal LE either. And the way you've designed the wireless, I think I could use about anybody's 8 channel DMX, but I'd kinda like to stay with the same family.
I'm pretty certain you have all sorts of free time, especially at this time of year! ;)
Just wondering - it's no big deal.
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I was about to suggest the same thing. I can think of quite a few areas where I need 6 to eight channels. I was also wondering if there is a possibility of a high output SSR4. Perhaps this 8 channel express could also be designed as a high output unit.
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I can't imagine ever "wasting" eight channels LOL!
John
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Would it be worth just a $10 or so savings to drop to a 8 channel unit? all the other stuff would still be needed.
RJ
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I can't speak for others but for me it's more a matter of holes in my channels. If I have to use 5 express units in these situations where I'm only using half of the channels on each unit then I have 5 eight channel holes in my sequence and in that case it would also cost me $50 for nothing.
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I can't speak for others but for me it's more a matter of holes in my channels. If I have to use 5 express units in these situations where I'm only using half of the channels on each unit then I have 5 eight channel holes in my sequence and in that case it would also cost me $50 for nothing.
That's kinda what I was thinking but just couldn't put into words. I'm so glad you expressed it in terms I never seemed to be able to do so myself.
On the other hand, I'll never have 512 channels that I'm using, so holes don't really matter that much to me.
I realized that the price difference would be small for a populated board, but perhaps a smaller enclosure, less power cords, and maybe some things else I hadn't thought about might actually push the savings closer to $20. To use the extra channels on the normal LE might require longer power cables to reach the place where the lights are located, so there's another savings. The cost per channel would be greater with smaller controllers, but the cost of using all channels on all boards may make the cost even out a little.
It's no big deal one way or another, but I'd like to hang an 8 channel controller on the frame of my 5 to 8 channel medium size tree, and that's what brought this all to mind.
Thanks for any thought you might have put into this, and, like I said, I'm OK with it if it never comes to fruition for whatever reasons.
steve
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Well it is worth thinking about. I can say for sure it would not happen this year. We have been talking about a 32 channel Express so just heading the other way in this case.
RJ
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fyi - you can rename your channels as well as reorganize your channels in vixen. Therefore, you wouldn't really have holes if you organized the channels in vixen and moved hte empty ones to the bottom of your sequence.
I can't speak for others but for me it's more a matter of holes in my channels. If I have to use 5 express units in these situations where I'm only using half of the channels on each unit then I have 5 eight channel holes in my sequence and in that case it would also cost me $50 for nothing.
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Just curious, but how many channels do you normally use on your arches, about 5? An arch with 8 segments, I'm liking the idea.
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Just curious, but how many channels do you normally use on your arches, about 5? An arch with 8 segments, I'm liking the idea.
But two arches adjacent to each other with 8 segments each makes a 16 channel unit right at the junction of the arches work really great.
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fyi - you can rename your channels as well as reorganize your channels in vixen. Therefore, you wouldn't really have holes if you organized the channels in vixen and moved hte empty ones to the bottom of your sequence.
I can't speak for others but for me it's more a matter of holes in my channels. If I have to use 5 express units in these situations where I'm only using half of the channels on each unit then I have 5 eight channel holes in my sequence and in that case it would also cost me $50 for nothing.
Since we are using DMX, the controllers can be overlapped too. Just because the first LE is set to channel 1 doesn't mean that LE #2 has to be set to channel 17, it could be set to channel 9.
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What about a wireless 16 channel Express with additional 16 channels of SSR's for a total of 32 channels? Then you get the best of both worlds. The question RJ or thw two of them compatable with each other or would that just drive up the cost. Thanks, just me 2 bits worth!
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What about a wireless 16 channel Express with additional 16 channels of SSR's for a total of 32 channels? Then you get the best of both worlds. The question RJ or thw two of them compatable with each other or would that just drive up the cost. Thanks, just me 2 bits worth!
I guess I am not sure what you are asking for? can you explain a little more.
RJ
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Since I haven't put up my first display yet, and probably won't get it done this year, I'd have to defer to the people who have experience with all of this, but I'm sure almost all cases are different. I can see using a 16 channel controller between two 8 channel arches, but if they aren't real close, you start getting into long power cords. I like the 32 channel controller for a mega tree although I can't imagine what type of enclosure it would use. Those holes for the power cords on the CG-1500 are pretty tight already.
RJ, you have one of the best designs around. I like having curves for differing types of lights. I'd really like have the same piece of software to configure and test all 3 (getting ahead of myself here) capacity controllers. And I like the wireless concept. I'd just like to have them all under one umbrella, so to speak.
Keep up the great work.
steve
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I like the idea of a 32 channel express. Finer control of my displays. I would like to be able to control each bulb in some of the smaller displays I am putting together. Also instead of just one color I could run multiple colors. This would also keep the cost down. It wouldn't need to have as high a current rating per channel as the 16 channel express. Now if you could build a 128 channel mr16 that would be the bomb.
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I still like my idea of the Express Blade Center. The motherboard has the PIC, wireless, etc. along with a backplane and then you slide in SSR blades. They could have maybe 8 SSRs each with the ability to put in 4 blades total? The trick would be the enclosure. Would be cool but maybe not worth it pricewise.
--Ron
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Totally Modular! I was just thinking in the beginning that 8 Channels would work will with my candy canes, but I upgraded them to 12 so... And, 16 is just as easy to use.
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Just my 2 cents worth, but I think RJ already has a pretty good mix of controllers to fit most needs. He's also done them at channel counts & price breaks that make a lot of sense economically.
Need 8 channels? I'd just put two DMX SSR4s next to each other. Need more flexibility? Build a Freestyle and then you can put basic (non-DMX) SSR4s all over the place and still be pretty economical. I think a lot of people have forgotten about the Freestyle because of all the excitement over the LE's this year, but it's a great product, too.
I also agree with Steve about connecting 32 power cables to one enclosure. Even if a 32 channel controller were available, I'd still use 2 LE's on my megatree for that reason alone. I mount them back-to-back on the center pole, and it makes the connections easy.
To be completely honest, though, I have an ulterior motive here - I'm looking forward to the Conductor, and I don't want RJ to get too distracted from finishing it. ;)
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What about a wireless 16 channel Express with additional 16 channels of SSR's for a total of 32 channels? Then you get the best of both worlds. The question RJ or thw two of them compatable with each other or would that just drive up the cost. Thanks, just me 2 bits worth!
I guess I am not sure what you are asking for? can you explain a little more.
RJ
I think I understand. An Express with the usual 16 channels on board plus some SSR outputs. A 32 channel express with 16 channels onboard and 16 channels remote. Interesting idea.
Chris
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I picked up two SSR4 w/DMX Boards and the Mouser parts have shipped so I should be able to implement them this year to see just how they work. My wife wanted mini trees and I had no more free channels. My Macro tree - it hasn't grown up to a full Mega Tree yet uses 14 channels, however next year that will be 50 channels minimum and if I have my way it will be 58 channels, we shall see.
If it is one or the other my vote is on the "Conductor!"
;D
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Just my 2 cents worth, but I think RJ already has a pretty good mix of controllers to fit most needs. He's also done them at channel counts & price breaks that make a lot of sense economically.
Need 8 channels? I'd just put two DMX SSR4s next to each other. Need more flexibility? Build a Freestyle and then you can put basic (non-DMX) SSR4s all over the place and still be pretty economical. I think a lot of people have forgotten about the Freestyle because of all the excitement over the LE's this year, but it's a great product, too.
I agree that RJ does have a pretty good mix of controllers but if there were no need or demand for an 8 channel controller, then companies like LOR wouldn't bother to make them. I am just getting stareted but I already see where about 4 8 channel controllers would work very well for me. Sure, I could use 2 SSR4's with DMX but that would result in a lot of duplicate circuitry and wasted money. Using a freestyle in this situation would not work well since an ethernet cable needs to be run from the freestyle to each SSR4 so if you have 2 SSR4's next to each other each one would need its own ethernet cable from the freestyle and that would once again be wastefull. I am also looking foward to the conductor and would not want it delayed for something like this but I still believe that an 8 channel controller would be a welcome addition to the current lineup.
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I agree that RJ does have a pretty good mix of controllers but if there were no need or demand for an 8 channel controller, then companies like LOR wouldn't bother to make them. I am just getting stareted but I already see where about 4 8 channel controllers would work very well for me. Sure, I could use 2 SSR4's with DMX but that would result in a lot of duplicate circuitry and wasted money. Using a freestyle in this situation would not work well since an ethernet cable needs to be run from the freestyle to each SSR4 so if you have 2 SSR4's next to each other each one would need its own ethernet cable from the freestyle and that would once again be wastefull. I am also looking foward to the conductor and would not want it delayed for something like this but I still believe that an 8 channel controller would be a welcome addition to the current lineup.
Those are all excellent points. I was just thinking of my little yard. My yard is small enough that (so far) I can do everything I want with either 4 or 16 channel controllers without running cables too far. For me, saving $10 isn't worth losing 8 channels that I can use in the future. But, I may be in the minority here.
I could definitely see where someone with more room may want & need a number of 8 channel controllers because of how their yard is laid out. In that case, the $10 savings could add up pretty quickly - especially if you consider the savings in cables from having the controllers closer to where you need them.
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Several of my controllers are indoors, for lights on the windows. This makes it easier for me to get power to them, easier to install them and remove them (especially when the snow flies), and protects them from the elements and some UV fading. Anyway, in 2 rooms with small windows, I am only using 8 of the 16 channels on the LEs, and would definately get 8 channel controllers for those if they were available. Of course, they'd also need to be wireless, since running CAT5 between rooms in just messy, and I would be tripping over it all the time.
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I agree with RJ, the cost savings doesn't add up to the return on investment, RD and time.
>>on soapbox
You really want 8 channels use 2 ssrs, or about the same cost as an LE, plus you would get 8 channels free with an LE. 32 channels same thing, say 32 channels at 2 amps a piece .... now I have to take a different circuit out to it, non standard circuit equals extra costs.
I have it ... take your 16 channel LE and only plug in one side ..... call it an 8 channel controller or take 2 LEs and put them in the same box, you have a 32 channel controller.
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I think we have plenty of model choices,
I thought about the 2 ssrs and actually ordered up a bunch ... only thing was 2 ssrs material cost was about the same give or take a few bucks as an LE. Took me a little longer to build and test 2 SSRS as it did the 1 LE So the time spent was a wash, and then I only had 8 channels ... later in the game after some thought... I just left extra channels "laying out in the field" with the LEs
I would like to see a LIGHT organ plugin for windows media player ... Like the frequency add in for Vixen only automatic. Load in your play list and we have a show. but that is another story. I would like to see a power and test LED on the SSrs. Maybe a little module you could plug in to them to test them. A self correcting Light controller ... when a light goes out it shoots a high voltage spike down the circuit to fuse the burnt out lite.
RJs time is worth gold to us and it is limited, let's stay on task and not get sidetracked on options just because someone else does it that way.
All our stuff is done our way -different ... why was that .. OH now I remember, we didn't like the way the other guys did it. We are not competing with them on any field except working .. and we excel at that .... I like working stuff.
>> off soapbox
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I realize that RJ's time is very valuable and is probably very limited. My suggestion was made in hopes that the 8 channel board could be done very easily by whittling down the 16 channel board, leaving all the wireless stuff, and hopefully, the coding changes would be simple (or even nothing needs changed in the code). I kinda hoped the board design would be easy also. I didn't want to create a lot of extra work for anyone.
There are tons of other options for me, so no big deal if it doesn't happen. I was hoping for mostly "yea or nea" type responses without negatives to show support of or demand for the 8 channel board, but the ideas presented are good ones.
steve
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I am grateful for everything RJ does for us, but I would appreciate it if he would move "self cloning" to the top of his list. As fast as he cranks out the the new toys right now, could you image how cool it would be to have two RJs working away. My soldering iron and wallet would never be able to keep up. Until he can get that done, I will occupy myself by building more of the excellent devices he has already designed for us.
RJ,
Thank you for everything and please keep up the good work,
Jay
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I know i'm dredging up an older thread, sorry.
3 cents worth.
Rj's time is gold.
I can see the argument for an 8ch controller BUT why not think the other way, just divide your elements up into finer, more granular control or add more colour, you will soon use all 16 channels :)
Personally I ran 48ch controllers all through the yard as well as a freestyle with 16ch and 4ch ssr's. I had 640ch allocated in Vixen to cover the DMX address range across 2 universes that i was using but only had around 360 channels in use. I just shuffled the order in Vixen and ignored the un-used channels.
the 48ch boards were around 80% utilised. did i regret not using all the channels on any one board? Yeah at times I had a small twinge of wanting to find extra lights to use up the channels, but not about having spare capacity really.
The largest issue as the number of channels goes up is supplying input power if you don't divide your display up further. High channel count controllers demand reduce light counts per channel so the total circuit draw does not exceed input capacity.
The 120ch DC LED controller for this year will be limited to 100mA per channel but that is still 12A at full load!