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This is the Lynx Express Version 5 that I am about to order the proto pcbs for testing. These will be what is on the next coop.
There are a number of enhancements to improve or fix things.
1 - Replaced 3.3 volt regulator with one suited for colder climates.
2 - Added requested Reset push button to allow reseting the system with out unpluging it.
3 - TO220 parts solder pads where elongated to add area without losing seperation
4 - Few other pads where enlarged to make easier soldering such as the large 4700uf capacitor
5 - 5v good led was turned around to make all LEDS fit the same direction to lessen chance of mistakes.
6 - Added 47K 1/2 watt resistors across each output to help with LEDS so there will be no need for external snubbers to be added to your lights.
7 - Changed some pad holes sizes for tighter fits to help with assembly alignments.
8 - Changed socket part numbers to use 3m sockets with kinked solder tail to hold socket in for you while soldering.
9 - Since they do not make 6 pin versions of the above sockets I made the pad holes smaller for tighter fitting 6 pin sockets.
10 - Replaced the .1uf caps to better rated units for cold temps.
RJ
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Can't see the PCB yet. typing this on my cell. Was just curious if V5 might incorporate a position of the PIC that might allow easier removal of the PIC while the LE is installed in the enclosure? If not, I'll be buying anyway. :) just asking. Had situation this season and was difficult. Not impossible just difficult.
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Can't see the PCB yet. typing this on my cell. Was just curious if V5 might incorporate a position of the PIC that might allow easier removal of the PIC while the LE is installed in the enclosure? If not, I'll be buying anyway. :) just asking. Had situation this season and was difficult. Not impossible just difficult.
No it does not change.
1 - Why was it hard? are you using a different Case?
2 - Why remove the pic you can flash it in the unit with the header?
RJ
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Greetings,,,
You might want to pick up one of the cheap chip pullers, if you expect to change chips more than once or twice. They make things much easier.
Keith
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You could also use a small piece of thread or silk under the IC and leave a bit of slack sticking out of the ends. The ends can then be pulled to remove the chip.
Bill
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Great improvement RJ,
Pretty cool about the pads and the 47K resistors, that was in my wish list.
About remove the chip I also had some troubles to remove the Pic. When I finished my boards I plugged and they did not boot, didn’t know if the Pic was bad or was not programmed properly, I ran several iterations changing several Pics and reprogramming them until the 3.3V led turned on, was not sure what the problem was since the board boot with some Pics and not with others, was not really too hard to remove the Pic but it can take some time and some legs can be a little bended since the angle to access to the bottom of the PIC is large, especially after the board is assembled.
Programming the Pic on the board is a great feature, but could be nice to leave a small open space on the top of Pic to easy removal, especially for troubleshooting.
I’ll be ordering several of them when the co-op is open.
Gus.
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RJ,
I don't know if this has been sugested and probably to late for ver 5. I also don't know if you have any outputs available. But the addition of a "DMX Link connected LED" would be a nice addition. I have remoted the status LED on my LOR units to the outside of the box. I simply used a 2-pin header where the LED was to go and put a pigtail w on the LED with a 2-pin header plug (salvaged from a disposed PC) I makes it real easy to walk the yard make sure all of the boxes have signal. This would also help with wireless also. Just a thought!!
Have a great new year!
KEN
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Will the wireless PCBs be offered at the same time. I'd like to keep the same number of each (LE & EX/RX) always around in the event something changes on either for compatability.
steve
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RJ,
I don't know if this has been sugested and probably to late for ver 5. I also don't know if you have any outputs available. But the addition of a "DMX Link connected LED" would be a nice addition. I have remoted the status LED on my LOR units to the outside of the box. I simply used a 2-pin header where the LED was to go and put a pigtail w on the LED with a 2-pin header plug (salvaged from a disposed PC) I makes it real easy to walk the yard make sure all of the boxes have signal. This would also help with wireless also. Just a thought!!
Have a great new year!
KEN
Ok,
do not have any pins avaliable but Working on it for you anyway.
RJ
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Will the wireless PCBs be offered at the same time. I'd like to keep the same number of each (LE & EX/RX) always around in the event something changes on either for compatability.
steve
Wireless will not be avaliable until after the Ver 2.0 beta is done in about 3 months sorry.
RJ
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Ok added Data Link Light,
There are a number of enhancements to improve or fix things.
1 - Replaced 3.3 volt regulator with one suited for colder climates.
2 - Added requested Reset push button to allow reseting the system with out unpluging it.
3 - TO220 parts solder pads where elongated to add area without losing seperation
4 - Few other pads where enlarged to make easier soldering such as the large 4700uf capacitor
5 - 5v good led was turned around to make all LEDS fit the same direction to lessen chance of mistakes.
6 - Added 47K 1/2 watt resistors across each output to help with LEDS so there will be no need for external snubbers to be added to your lights.
7 - Changed some pad holes sizes for tighter fits to help with assembly alignments.
8 - Changed socket part numbers to use 3m sockets with kinked solder tail to hold socket in for you while soldering.
9 - Since they do not make 6 pin versions of the above sockets I made the pad holes smaller for tighter fitting 6 pin sockets.
10 - Replaced the .1uf caps to better rated units for cold temps.
11 - Added Data Link led to show when data is present.
RJ
Ordered proto pcbs for testing
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Can't see the PCB yet. typing this on my cell. Was just curious if V5 might incorporate a position of the PIC that might allow easier removal of the PIC while the LE is installed in the enclosure? If not, I'll be buying anyway. :) just asking. Had situation this season and was difficult. Not impossible just difficult.
No it does not change.
1 - Why was it hard? are you using a different Case?
2 - Why remove the pic you can flash it in the unit with the header?
RJ
About the header thing RJ,... Pure genius!!!
One of the things I like the best about your designs. I had an instance this season where one of the arch controllers wouldn't work no matter what I tried. Let me be clear,... it worked and then suddenly wouldn't the following night. The show ran with half of the arches out for the night then the next day I got off work and troubleshot it but ran out of time. Long story short I had isolated it down to the last ditch effort,... changing the pic. I did so and the controller sprang back into life. A lesson learned was that I recalled that even before I mounted it in the case it was difficult to pull the pic. I usually do so with a small screw driver. (sorry Bill the thread method you mentioned sounds like something I might have tried before I learned that you can easily damage the pins and once that is done they can also just as easily break off trying to bend them back) However, on this design there are things in the way that prevent you from doing this. On the one end the header that I love sooo much and on the other the heatsink. So, I tried giving up the hillbilly method and was off to find my chip extractor like Keith had mentioned. Unfortunately, I had been a bit to thorough and had left no clearance between the PIC and the socket. So the chip puller wouldn't work either. To make matters worse I had the clever idea of trying to put my controllers in an less noticable spot making them very close to the ground. Like I said, not impossible but difficult. Took about a half hour to find something that would work enough clearance to allow the chip puller to work. I think thats the way to go from now on. I'll just have to remember not to push the PIC so far down in the socket. (same case almost everyone is using by the way) Sorry to ramble. Thanks for your time.
Leon
PS - The PIC I removed could quite possibly turn out to be good after all. All this happened prior to people noticing the problems with the temps and it was quite cold then. After that I adopted a different method of getting the show ready which included turning things on around the warmest part of the day. For the controllers that were stubborn, I just warmed up the regulator heatsinks with my fingers (as you suggested) and all was well. :)
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Ok got you,
So let me help you guys out.
Go to Radio shack and buy one of their cheap chip puller tools. Then using a file taper to an edge the very tip of the teeth. But only file the top of them leave the bottom flat. and only do this for a short distence so it is a sharp angle on the end.
When you squeeze it now even when the chip is done tight is levels the chip up and lets you pull them with no problems.
RJ
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Awesome improvements to an already amazing design!
Kyle
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Stupid question #233315:
What does the Data Link LED actually indicate?
John
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Stupid question #233315:
What does the Data Link LED actually indicate?
John
Ok, Stupid Answer #233315 .... That you are receiving DMX data. ;D
Really not a stupid question just playing along!
RJ
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Suggestion.
I always use all my LE's in 20 amp mode by bridging the 2 AC traces and use only one of the AC inputs and probably most the users out there (my guess) do the same.
Can these be bridged by default and have the user cut them (easier to do) in case they want the 40amp configuration ?
Just my feedback based on experience....
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Suggestion.
I always use all my LE's in 20 amp mode by bridging the 2 AC traces and use only one of the AC inputs and probably most the users out there (my guess) do the same.
Can these be bridged by default and have the user cut them (easier to do) in case they want the 40amp configuration ?
Just my feedback based on experience....
Sorry, I disagree,
Even though I don't use anywhere near 20 amps, I still have 2 12ga. wire power cords from the controller that are plugged into 1 20amp GFCI which is fed from a 20amp switch. If I need higher power in the future I just need to add another cord, I don't need to reconfigure my controller board.
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Bisquit476, that is exactly my point.
Since adding a jumper to bridge the 2 AC traces is allowed (it is in the LE manual), and many users don't use near 20 amps in 1 single board, then ease the building process by having the jumper/bridge as a default configuration.
In your example when requiring more power you would just cut the trace and make it 2 individual AC circuits.
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In your example when requiring more power you would just cut the trace and make it 2 individual AC circuits.
Which is my point, with your configuration I would have to cut the trace to go high power. It would require me to remove the board from the case (or mounted location) to cut the trace, then add a 2nd input wire. My way, I've already done the board work, all I need to add is a second power receptacle and I'm good to go.
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i am assuming that it detects if data is actually being sent to the board or not
Stupid question #233315:
What does the Data Link LED actually indicate?
John
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In your example when requiring more power you would just cut the trace and make it 2 individual AC circuits.
I really don't like the idea of cutting a trace to split the AC feeds. Since the trace would have to be wide (to handle the power), making sure there was a sufficient gap would be very difficult. Think about the case where you were feeding the board with two different legs of your house AC (that is, the two different sides of the typical US 220V power) - which could very easily happen if you're connecting it to two separate power breakers (circuits)... You'd have to have a gap big enough to prevent a 220V arc - and if you didn't have it clean / wide enough, your Blinky-Flashy would become spectacular Flashy-Smoky-Burny (probably irrecoverably). Seems a very high risk / high price proposition - given the relative simplicity / cost of populating / depoping the jumper.
--Dave
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Stupid question #233315:
What does the Data Link LED actually indicate?
John
Ok, Stupid Answer #233315 .... That you are receiving DMX data. ;D
Really not a stupid question just playing along!
RJ
i am assuming that it detects if data is actually being sent to the board or not
Forgive my ignorance, but don't we have this already in the DMX LED subsequent to running a Tst?
Oh... but that's only after a Test mode.
John
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sorry I have to disagree with your suggestion. It's better built this way and very easy to switch. Why bother even bridging it to make a single 20 amp when all you need to do is connect the ac #2 to the ac#1 and make it as a single 20amp board. In any case, the design is perfect the way it is (of course even better with the new additions).
Suggestion.
I always use all my LE's in 20 amp mode by bridging the 2 AC traces and use only one of the AC inputs and probably most the users out there (my guess) do the same.
Can these be bridged by default and have the user cut them (easier to do) in case they want the 40amp configuration ?
Just my feedback based on experience....
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I agree John. All I do is run the power cords from both sides of the board, and then use a little splitter on the end of the extension cord feeding it. problem solved. If I needed more power, all I would need to do is run another extension cord from another circuit from the source.
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Hey Brian,
Just fyi, not sure if you were referring to Thaiway message (John) or mine. If mine name is Kenneth ;D hehehe
I agree John. All I do is run the power cords from both sides of the board, and then use a little splitter on the end of the extension cord feeding it. problem solved. If I needed more power, all I would need to do is run another extension cord from another circuit from the source.
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While I like the input on it, The reason it is setup to require you to jumper it to single input is for safety. It is way more safe to do it this way then the way you suggest. Much time was spent on this when I was asked to make it handle twin feeds. I originally did not want to do it as there is risks with twin feed setups. I did it but used this method to limit the risks to a very resonable Level.
This is one change we just can not do. It will need to say as it is or we would have to go to one single feed without the second input. I also am not sure that the majority of the users do jumper it as I know most of them and see their stuff and I would say its slightly the other way.
RJ
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I agree with keeping the inputs separate. My loads per LE are fairly small and I can easily run both sides of one LE using a 3 way adapter on the end of my 12ga extension cord, In fact in one spot I actually am running two LEs off 1 12ga extension cord and am still way under the max amps available. That's the beauty of LEDs. The only big amp draw I have is my mini trees where 8 minis plus lawn light takes 10amps, but I can still run both sides off a single 12 ga extension cord.
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Sorry Kenneth, I was scrolling and typing, reading your post, and his name. I remember your name....geez....blinky flashy didnt hypnotize that out of me yet....lol.....now where did i put my pants again?
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Stupid question #233315:
What does the Data Link LED actually indicate?
John
Data.
Brad
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I would like a clarification on Data.
If my board is actually receiving a wireless data signal will that light glow? I would love it if it did. I could care less if just letting me know through cat5. Its the wireless connection that I would like to know.
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The LED will tell you that it sees the Long break from the DMX signal at the PIC. This is not normal possible in normal data streams so it should only exist in DMX streams. The problem with the wireless is that if the receiver is powered up it is sending out DMX no matter if it gets wireless infromation or not it sends its current data (all off) so the test function says there is DMX even if you are not in touch with a TX.
This is because there is DMX there. The New led is just a permant way to see the same thing. I am in beta of a modified wireless firmware that handles this so the leds can work correctly.
Also the ver 2.0 EX / RX will have an led indicator of if it is receiving wireless Data to it so this will show what you want.
RJ
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Also the ver 2.0 EX / RX will have an led indicator of if it is receiving wireless Data to it so this will show what you want.
RJ
Will the previous Pcb's work for version 2 or do we need new PCB's?
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Version 2 is a new PCB.
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Is the version 5 board still 240v ready? If so exactly what modification is required?
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Is the version 5 board still 240v ready? If so exactly what modification is required?
Please see the LE manual in the wiki
http://diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual_Express#Appendix_B_240VAC_mod
Rick R.
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Is the version 5 board still 240v ready? If so exactly what modification is required?
Along with what Rick showed you there are another 16 resistors (snubber resistors) that must be either be left off or changed to use 240volt. We will get a write up in the manual for the V5. These cost very little.
RJ
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I realize it is too late to modify the ver. 5 coop, but I was curious as to something.
Seeing as this deals with high voltage and fragile electronics out in the environment, is there a reason that each channel does not have a fuse? I'm curious because it scared me this winter when running shows with old extension cords and such. It was pouring down freezing rain on new years eve eve and I didnt want to smoke my whole board because of one bad cord. And it was too late to get a new one.
Is it a cost thing? I would easily pay the $0.30 or so per channel for them. I guess I was just looking to see what the general consensus and RJ's opinon is on that whole thing.
Thanks for a great board (forum AND lynx)!
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I'm not sure I like the idea of individual channel fuses myself. I think if you are concerned about shorts to ground in the rain your GFCI will take care of that WAY before you overload the board.
Chris
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agreed, a simple GFCI will protect you from any damage done to the board. If you don't have them I suggest you think about adding them in. ;D
I'm not sure I like the idea of individual channel fuses myself. I think if you are concerned about shorts to ground in the rain your GFCI will take care of that WAY before you overload the board.
Chris
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Well, I too agree that you should plug your LE to a GFCI outlet however that only protect the LE's input and does not protect any of the 16 channels. Individuals fuses would. I seriously doubt that some of you are putting GFCI's on all your channels.
I too would like to hear from RJ on the reasoning for not having any fuses.
Personally and due to the fairly low cost of the boards, I have elected to take my chances and not to protect the individual channels. I would however not hesitate to add a fuse or an inline GFCI on a worrisome channel.
http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1297875
These are expensive hence the fuse question.
Ricardo
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You have fuses on each light strand if you use minis. If you are talking about putting a fuse on each individual channel between the power out and the triac, I suspect the cost would be substantially more than $.30 per channel. First you would have to buy the fuse holder and then the fuse. Then you would have to increase the size of the board (more cost) and then pay for the new set up fee (~$100). Al of that for a marginal if not negligible improvement in safety that is already afforded by the GFCI, the LE Main fuse(s), and the light string fuse.
Steve
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I think everyones answers pretty well covers it. Are you aware of Christmas light controllers that DO fuse each output? I am not, Even LOR who is commercial and by far the largest controller company does not have fuses on the outputs. And as stated it is many times the $.30 quoted to add it. the fuses are in the strings themself just as the Express has fuses of its own fuses. It should be connected to a GFCI to protect us all.
You see a GFCI on the line out to the Express does protect the 16 channels. If you grab a bare light cord and get a shock it is likely going from the hot side to the earth your standing on. In this case since the GFCI detects more current going out the hot leg to the express than the current coming back in on the neutral side it shuts power off in a big hurry. This saves you and likely the Express itself since most of the time a dead short in that short time will not damage the unit.
You see the triac used if you look at the spec sheet can survive a 63 Amp surge for 16.7 ms and a GFCI is a very fast piece of equipment. So if I fuse a channel and use a 4 amp fuse then you will need to pull more than 4 amps for a while for it to blow. Since this is 100's of times what it takes to kill you then you can be shocked to death with the new fused system proposed. On the other hand if we use a GFCI to protect the channels by putting the feed to the express on it we just saved your life.
Hope this helps.
RJ
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Oh it does. I was not really concerned about the shock value so much (I did have GFCI, but everytime it rains I loose the circuit, so I need an alternative form of protection). I am more concerned about extension cord shorting. THAT would destroy a channel because they dont have built in fuses.
As someone mentioned, and I kinda agree, is the low cost of the board in that sort of situation -being as rare as it is- you would just replace the board.
Thanks for your insight guys!
P.S. GFCI's will only protect from electrocutions, not short circuits. *for those that may not know* they measure the current difference between the Line and Neutral wires and so only if current goes elsewhere (ground) will they trip. If the current is just going between those wires it will not trip. Thus the circuit breaker, which will trip on a short but not till well over 20 amps.
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Odds are good you will have a leak to ground before you develop a short in your line cord, so the GFI will trip. If you actually short the cord the fuse on the LE may go before the Triac goes again your protected. If you do burn out the triac, open, then it's not a large task to replace it.
I get a hint of "I'm going to remove the GFI because it's tripping too much." rather than remove the GFI improve the weather proofing of your connections. I think this may be a topic worth exploring and adding to the wiki.
A final thought, you can always add in-line fuse holders.
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Slightly off topic but slightly relevant :D
Last year one of my gfci outlets keep tripping. It was easy to figure out it was my tomato cage mini trees. This year I didn't use them and I had no trips on the outlets. I had a ton of rain and snow this year (high winds also) and not one problem related to the weather.
Just some food for thought (maybe a snack)
Rick R.
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I tend not to use them on most of my display as they were really not designed with that use in mind. There is a much greater risk of someone tripping on an extension cord or inflatable tether and falling on something that can cause real harm so I do what I can to keep people from walking in the middle of the display. Now where there is a real risk as small as it is like on my front portch where there is an illuminated wreath on the metal storm door and rope lights on the iron rails that area is protected by GFI but I see no point in doing it with lights on the frame of the house or in the trees in the yard.
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Wow. I'm not going to harp on this, but to me, this position is scary. GFCI's are intended to provide a level of safety to humans, to protect them from completing an unintended circuit path to ground - possibly resulting in death. I can imagine any number of scenarios where people might come into contact with my outdoor display (shoot, *I'm* going to be out there touching stuff at times). I'd sure hate to be responsible for somebody (including myself) being electrocuted because I didn't want to deal with protecting my connections from water intrusion (resulting in GFCI's tripping).
Yeah, I know it's a drag, but being safe with electricity is critically important for this hobby. GFCIs are specified in the US NEC (National Electrical Code) for a reason.
Just my 2 cents worth...
--Dave
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Wow. I'm not going to harp on this, but to me, this position is scary. GFCI's are intended to provide a level of safety to humans, to protect them from completing an unintended circuit path to ground - possibly resulting in death. I can imagine any number of scenarios where people might come into contact with my outdoor display (shoot, *I'm* going to be out there touching stuff at times). I'd sure hate to be responsible for somebody (including myself) being electrocuted because I didn't want to deal with protecting my connections from water intrusion (resulting in GFCI's tripping).
Yeah, I know it's a drag, but being safe with electricity is critically important for this hobby. GFCIs are specified in the US NEC (National Electrical Code) for a reason.
Just my 2 cents worth...
--Dave
I totally agree with Dave and most areas required a gfci outlet for outdoor use.
Rick R.
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Yes, most areas require GFI on outdoor outlets on new homes or new electrical work in older ones and if people feel safer using them for their displays then go for it. I am not in any way telling people not to use them, I am simply stating that this is not what they were designed to do and that there are much higher risks to people walking around in a large display.
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Yes, most areas require GFI on outdoor outlets on new homes or new electrical work in older ones and if people feel safer using them for their displays then go for it. I am not in any way telling people not to use them, I am simply stating that this is not what they were designed to do and that there are much higher risks to people walking around in a large display.
I'm curious about your statement that GFCIs were not designed to do (this). Not designed to do what? GFCIs break the circuit if it detects a difference in current flow from the hot and neutral lines to prevent individuals from receiving a shock.
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Talk about your left turn! how did we go from talking about new features of a controller to discussing the merits or GFCI or lack there of? LOL
Now back to our regularly schedule program. ;D
RJ
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Talk about your left turn! how did we go from talking about new features of a controller to discussing the merits or GFCI or lack there of? LOL
Now back to our regularly schedule program. ;D
RJ
Shucks,
I was wanting to ask about the new Health Care Plan being considered in Congress. ;)
steve
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I'm curious about your statement that GFCIs were not designed to do (this). Not designed to do what? GFCIs break the circuit if it detects a difference in current flow from the hot and neutral lines to prevent individuals from receiving a shock.
As RJ said and I agree, this thread is not about this but I will answer your question and then I will stop hijacking this thread. In many areas copper pipe was required for water supply lines and this combined with metal faucets and wet locations such as in a bathroom made electrocution from something like a defective hair dryer a real possibility. GFI was designed and implemented with the prevention of situations like this in mind. It was also extended to kitchens, basements and outdoor outlets to protect against similar situations. The point is that in all of these situations, the person would be holding or picking up an electrical device while providing a good ground connection thru their body. When is this likely to happen in your outdoor light display? The cords wil be lying on the ground and even if wet, if stepped on will do nothing as the best path to ground is the ground itself. Another problem with using GFI in this situation is that if you have multiple cords plugged into each other and each one is leaking a few mills when wet at the plugs, even though that level of current at each connection would not even be felt the total leakage of all the connections would trip the GFI because as I said before, they were not designed with this use in mind. As I said before, I am in no way telling people not to use GFI in their displays but IMHO, they provide little to no valid protection in this use while making it very difficult to run an outdoor light display.
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RJ,
Can we take this to a new topic because I think this needs more discussion as I believe this to be totally incorrect. GFCIs are indeed meant to protect personnel from electrocution from exactly the way we use them in light animation.
No flaming intended, just a healthy discussion.
-Paul
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I do not believe you two disagreeing on this is going to productive. Everyones opinion has been made. Some people do not use them I believe most do. They are a safety device and do indeed save lifes. I know of no places in the USA the codes do not require them on the outside feeds that our shows run on.
Beyond this it is a personal choice that we are not here to tell people what to do. It is their responsibilty and so their choice.
These type of threads are great up to this point, and then it heads down hill. Lets leave it be.
RJ
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I have another question about the Lynx. I know this would not work for the wireless guys (yet anyways). But how hard would it be to have each lynx send out a status signal on the second pair of data cables?
For example, for both security reasons and troubleshooting reasons I would love to have a device plugged in right at the dongle that would give me a quick status report on each of the Lynx. Heck it could even be plugged into the computer as well so you can make a gui for it.
All i would want to know is what the device is (Lynx Express) and what the starting channel is. The device/software would then interpret this, compare it to my list of installed hardware and let me know if anything is locked up or physically missing. If one of the controls were to stop responding after like 10 seconds it would set an alarm (sound, or light, or even trigger something in the display).
I leave my controllers powered on 24/7 to keep them warm so that isnt an issue. Is anyone else looking for anything like that or am I just weird?
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While this sounds simple, it is far more complicated than it seems. Although the device name and starting channel might work for you, it wouldn't for me or many others because I have more than one device of the same type starting on the same channel. You could code an identifier in the firmware but that will eat up space. Then there is the issue of adding hardware to all of the controllers which both increases costs and required a redesign of all of the boards. After the hardware is installed then you will have to come up with a reliable method of communication. Remember, unlike the outgowing where only the dongle is originating the transmission and everything else simply forwards it, what you want to do would have everything but the dongle transmitting information. A method would have to be created or implemented to prevent or avoid collisions on the return side and while methods to do this already exist, I'm not sure that the current hardware has enough space for the code required to implement both it and the message being sent or the speed to process it as well as respond to DMX commands as is.
I'm not sure about what you mean when you said the second pair of data cables. If you are talking about the second data jack on the express and other controllers, that cannot be done since the dimmers are linked together by these. If you meant a second pair of wires in the existing cables then the dongle would have to be redesigned for two way communications. That in itself might not be a bad idea but it doesn't end there. The software would also have to be redesigned for both two way communications and what to do with the incoming data. There will be a heck of a lot of work to do this and really not much bang for the buck IMHO.
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I was referring to the second data pair in the cable. I was actually thinking to put in a device inline before the dongle that would remove and process the data so the dongle and interface software wouldn't have to change.
But I guess the PIC space would really be the most limiting factor as RJ redesigns the boards often anyways it wouldn't be too hard to add another 485 chip. The hardest part would be collision management (you would have to use the actual 485 protocol since that is two way) and all the involved coding in the chip. Although, with the identifier as you mention, the controllers wouldnt have to do anything more than beacon their ID every so often. But that would, like you said, probably make the effort outweigh the gains. Beyond that I don't see the difficulty beyond original hardware designs.
Since the schematics aren't public I cant really tell how it all works and I'm going on my assumptions and electronics knowledge. More than likely there isnt even enough pins left on the pic to do another dataline (ever considered multiplexing? pros cons?) but having two way communication as an option could be very beneficial to future expansion.
I just love projects, so I love kicking around all these different ideas. THank you for humoring me, and I'm sorry if i become annoying. DIY is my thing!
~Brandon
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Never Annoying! , Interesting ideas.
RJ
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Now back to our regularly schedule program.
Heres a quick little video! LOL it was going to be longer and go into more info but the card on my camera ran full. I did not know it so I did a 5 minute presentation but only this was recorded! LOL man do I fill stupid!
Hope you enjoy.
RJ
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Nice job RJ
The code works great for rebooting and dmx activity light
Cheers
Rick R.
(Can't wait to get one :D)
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At least you only went 5 minutes and not 55. :)
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Nice RJ. 8)
Brad
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short and sweet.
I'M GOING TO LOVE THAT RESET BUTTON !!!!!!
Question
What drives the data link light? This year I had trouble with a cable that created a marginal signal to an express. The express would end going off into the weeds and I would have to reset the box and play with the terminator to get it running again. It turned out to be the cable but it sure had me running in circles for awhile.
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short and sweet.
I'M GOING TO LOVE THAT RESET BUTTON !!!!!!
UhOh
Now Keith is going to have to start another support group
RBA - Rest Button Anonymous
:D
Cheers
Rick R.
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short and sweet.
I'M GOING TO LOVE THAT RESET BUTTON !!!!!!
Question
What drives the data link light? This year I had trouble with a cable that created a marginal signal to an express. The express would end going off into the weeds and I would have to reset the box and play with the terminator to get it running again. It turned out to be the cable but it sure had me running in circles for awhile.
See post #31 in this thread for that info.
RJ
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short and sweet.
I'M GOING TO LOVE THAT RESET BUTTON !!!!!!
UhOh
Now Keith is going to have to start another support group
RBA - Rest Button Anonymous
:D
Cheers
Rick R.
Greetings,,,
I'm also going to have one, rBA - reset Button Anonymous...
;D
Keith
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You two are too much! :D
John
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short and sweet.
I'M GOING TO LOVE THAT RESET BUTTON !!!!!!
UhOh
Now Keith is going to have to start another support group
RBA - Rest Button Anonymous
:D
Cheers
Rick R.
Greetings,,,
I'm also going to have one, rBA - reset Button Anonymous...
;D
Keith
oops I forgot the 'e' in reset
Sorry RJ for going off topic
Cheers
Rick R.
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A late follow-up to a prior post RE DMX units sending status. This is actually supported in a follow-on standard to DMX called RDM. RDM allows bi-directional communication between the DMX device and the controller, it allows the DMX controller to discover devices. RJ would have to comment on the ability of current hardware to send DMX. I suspect this it not possible.
RJ I'm looking forward to the LE's
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RDM requires that the RS485 chip be wired a little differently to what may be the case now. It's also non-trivial to implement in code unfortunately. It would be great to see in the future of course!
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Awesome
I have a button named for me ;D
Looks Great
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RJ,
Nice short video. Wasn't sure what to expect from the controller itself. Thought it was like the LOR and D-light controllers till I looked at the wiki and with this video, sure brings a newbe like me up to speed. I already have 14 D-light controllers that I built. I like features I see so far especially the on on-board programming reset button (will come in handy) the output LED's and the addition of the resistors really helps too. No more building snubbers. I was about to build 80 more of those things. Very cool design been hanging out at DIY and PC both good sites. Been using LEDTRIKS and Triks-C for 2 years now not sure why I did not check out this site sooner, not sure what I was thinking. Looking forward to coop on the dongle and the wireless.
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Quick Question. Is the PBC size the same as V4 so same case PN ?
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Greetings,,,
Same case for all 5 versions.
Keith
And same PCB size also...
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Thanks
Gary
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This is my first coop. Just wondering if the manual is any different for the VER 5 over what is posted now?
http://diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Manual_Express
Will it be updated for Version 5? I assume there will be some mods right? Like below?
Ron
PCB Version Change Info Manual BOM
4.0
Jun 2009
Removed (16) 180 ohm Resistors & (16) 330 ohm Resistors. Added a Jumper for selecting wireless or using the on board RS485. RS485 no longer has to be removed to use the wireless. Manual V4 Bom V4
3.0
Mar 2009
Added Second DMX Out & Power LEDs (Diagnostics added to firmware). DMX OUT 2 provides ability to chain to DMX hardware downstream of the wireless receiver - . Light Normalizing added to the firmware. Light Normalizing firmware fully compatible with the PCB versions 1 and 2. Manual V3 Bom V3
2.0
Nov 2008
First Released Version Manual V2 Bom V2
1.0
Jun 2008
Beta Board
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Greetings,,,
Don't worry. The manual will be updated for V5. The mods just show what was changed so that people will know.
Keith
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I'm new to these cards so I have to ask; why is everyone so excited for a reset button?
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Greetings,,,
It allows a power restart without unplugging the unit. There are no on/off switches. This helps sometimes with troubleshooting. Sometimes it allows people to show off the pretty messages that occur on startup. ;D
Keith
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Can someone further explain this feature?
Added 47K 1/2 watt resistors across each output to help with LEDS so there will be no need for external snubbers to be added to your lights.
What does this mean for the guy who hasn't quite sniffed enough soldering fumes? :)
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Can someone further explain this feature?
Added 47K 1/2 watt resistors across each output to help with LEDS so there will be no need for external snubbers to be added to your lights.
What does this mean for the guy who hasn't quite sniffed enough soldering fumes? :)
It of course means you should be sniffing more solder fumes until it all becomes clear!
Just Kidding!!!
Users that are using lots of LEDS often complian of the string lightly blinking when they are not told to. This normally happens when you are turning on or off a lot of channels at the same time. It is sometimes called false triggering because this is what happens to the triac.
This is not a certain controller that it happens with, it is a Triac based dimmer issue and is as big an issue for LOR as it is for DIY controllers. The users for years have made up what they call snubbers by soldering resistors in vampire plug or somethign like that and pluging them into the strings close to the dimmer. Some people you will read about using nitelights, etc.
Since it does not hurt the normal lights for this extra load to be applied and it is very little load, I added them to the Express. Can't get closer to the triacs than that!
This saves LED users from having to spend the extra money to make them and have them on the strings. It cost almost nothing to add them to the pcb as the plugs were the expensive part of making them.
Here is a link at PC where a lot of LOR users are talking about them and what they do and how to make them.
http://forums.planetchristmas.com/showthread.php?t=37562
Hope it helps.
RJ
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Can someone further explain this feature?
Added 47K 1/2 watt resistors across each output to help with LEDS so there will be no need for external snubbers to be added to your lights.
What does this mean for the guy who hasn't quite sniffed enough soldering fumes? :)
Check out this video http://www.vimeo.com/8666024 (http://www.vimeo.com/8666024)
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Thanks! Yes, I have that flicker with my Home Depot led's.
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I'm new to these cards so I have to ask; why is everyone so excited for a reset button?
Don't know where you are located....several of us thought it was a good idea for various reasons. My reason was the extension cords were covered in 8" of snow. So if a reset was needed I had to go to the power panel to cut power and allow Express to re-boot.
RJ found a way to do it on Ver5 ;D ;D ;D
hummm....wonder if I could hack my Ver4 boards :o :o ;D
Brad
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...if a reset was needed I had to go to the power panel to cut power and allow Express to re-boot.
RJ found a way to do it on Ver5 ;D ;D ;D
hummm....wonder if I could hack my Ver4 boards :o :o ;D
Don't know if this is a serious question, but simply drilling a hole in the case & mounting a (water-protected - i.e. "shrouded") switch & wiring it in-line with the supply would allow the reset of any AC-powered unit. A momentary contact normally-on DPST switch would probably do just what you need.
It might be safest, though, to make a mounting bracket & install the switch inside the case (so extra water protection isn't needed & it could be locked up).
--Dave
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The problem with doing that is then you would need a switch capable of handling the full current load that could be applied to the right hand side of the controller which is 15 amps. You could modify the board by interupting the trace going to the transformer and passing that thru a small SPNC push button to shutdown the low voltage power supply when pressed and cause a reboot but you had better know what you are doing while making this change or you could damage or destroy the board. Maybe I'm missing something but what is the advantage of this reboot button over simply unplugging the unit to reset it, especially once it is mounted outside where it may be hard to get to?
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Hi, you’ll
I am just talking out of my un-experience behind, but I also like to think outside the box. What if you just plug the main power cord to a standard UL safe light switch, and then rout the light switch to the Lynx Express main power connection? Question, are light switches rate for strong loads. an example would be like your interior home wall socket with a light switch. you have 100% (##) amps going through the light switch.
Again, this is just a suggestion and I could be completely wrong. I would not mind if you all correct me, one thing is safety. Just an advice, do not open the case and start touching items inside the case if you have the unit plugged in.
For a clean look, if you were DIY enough you can mount the switch face on the exterior case and all the cables would be in the interior of the case.
“Maybe I'm missing something but what is the advantage of this reboot button over simply unplugging the unit to reset it, especially once it is mounted outside where it may be hard to get to?”
To answer that. Many owner leave in areas that the elements not so forgiven, Snow in my mind would be a big factor if a switch would be available to restart the unit, it would be easier to restart.
Yuri
Mod "OOps i kind of just repeated what austindave said, in different words."
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Can't you reset the PIC by connecting a normally-open pushbutton between pins 1 and 3 of the programming (ICSP) header? That's much easier and safer than dealing with the incoming power.
/mike
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The problem with doing that is then you would need a switch capable of handling the full current load that could be applied to the right hand side of the controller which is 15 amps.
Right. I envisioned a 20A DPST normally closed momentary contact toggle switch like http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=480-3283-ND (http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=480-3283-ND). A little pricey at digikey at ~$10 a pop, but it could probably be found for less elsewhere.
A cheaper option would be a regular "on/off" switch (non-momentary contact) - digikey has these with 20A capacity for about $4). I've seen rubber boots for these sorts of switches so it could be mounted through the case.
However, if mounted through-case, they wouldn't be tamper proof (though I'd think tampering with the momentary contact switch would only have a short term impact on the show). Mounting it inside the case prevents tampering (assuming you lock the case - if you don't, then much worse than flipping the switch might be expected).
--Dave
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Can't you reset the PIC by connecting a normally-open pushbutton between pins 1 and 3 of the programming (ICSP) header? That's much easier and safer than dealing with the incoming power.
/mike
Maybe so. But I don't have a schematic (for all EX versions) to confirm - and wouldn't recommend others make circuit mods even if I did.
But I do know that inserting a switch in the power feed would provide the same function as unplugging the controller -but making it much more convenient (like if your power cords are buried under 8" of snow).
And sure, messing with low voltage stuff is safer than high voltage stuff. But since you've built the controller & wired-up all the high voltage connections yourself, you (hopefully) know that you have to be careful when doing this. And when you need to reset the controller, since you're opening the box to get to the reset switch anyway, I don't see that flipping a (properly installed and insulated) switch is any more dangerous than pushing a low-voltage reset button buried on the board (no offense, RJ - the reset switch is a great idea).
Nor am I saying that everybody should go out and do this - I'm just saying that this is an option for those who need to be able to reset / disconnect older version controllers without having to go back to unplug it from the wall outlet.
So don't do this, if you aren't comfortable doing it. :D
--Dave
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Quote“(Properly installed and insulated) switch is any more dangerous than pushing a low-voltage reset button buried on the board (no offense, RJ - the reset switch is a great idea).”
Here is just a thought and I am not recommending any modifications to any of RJ instructions,
Just thinking outside the box and a possible solution for those whose environment isn’t so friendly.
With RJ's Push Button switch for V5, if you were to extend the push button to the exterior of the case (Drilling a hole and mount the push button to the case), and then connect wires from the push button to the board. That would avoid in opening the case.
Again, this is just an idea that has not being tested. ??? ??? ??? so please don't take this information and run.
YV
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I am sorry, Is you cases doors hard to open? I guess I just am not getting why you need the reset outside the case? As far as the reset push button it is located way outside of the danagerous voltages and you are seperated by a big metal wall from getting into it. I at first did not think it was needed at all when brought up but when the ice and snow issue was explain it became more of a real issue to me. As far as being worried about adding it to the older units why? I am ready to bet if it had not been added to V5 no one would be talking about this. Every time we add something to a new version everyone gets caught up in the "mine does not have that" mindset. What were you doing about it up to now?
Please do not read any thing bad into what I am saying it is just thoughts that hit me when I read the thread. They are only meant to make you think.
RJ
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Personally i like your set up, and RJ i take advice anytime from anyone, this whole thing is a large learning curve.
when i typed it, it was just thought. I was waiting for a responce to either it was a good idea or just "WHAT THE HECK ARE YOU THINKING" enough said. thanks for all the cool toys we can play with.
YV
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I really don't want the reset button. (well not really) Once I deploy a controller I don't want to see it until I box it up to put it away. I agree that some of the extra features can cause extra headaches and waste time.
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I will install a normally closed pushbutton switch inside the case hard wired to the positive 3.3v ok LED, and the 1uf cap just north of the pic. Of course I'll have to cut the trace too.
Since it's the low voltage side it doesn't have to be a more expensive 15 or 20A switch.
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I used a remote controlled switch (the type that is in the Christmas aisles with all the green extension cords) between the LE and the GFCI. The purpose was to be able to turn on and off some lights that were constant on during the show (I ran out of LEs to make them blink). But it also served as a type of reset button for the LE. Sure beats opening the case and letting snow or rain in, or cutting a hole in the case which could do the same. I don't think I ever NEEDED to reset the LE, but I did each day by default when turning on and off the other lights.
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Brad-
Check the board when you get it - I can almost guarantee that trace doesn't connect to the reset switch but to a via right below it. The ICSP header is a better place to get MCLR* and doesn't require any trace cutting. For that, use a NO button.
/mike
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Brad-
Check the board when you get it - I can almost guarantee that trace doesn't connect to the reset switch but to a via right below it. The ICSP header is a better place to get MCLR* and doesn't require any trace cutting. For that, use a NO button.
/mike
Mike,
There are several ways to do it. I was just pointing out RJ's method. Simple and clean. I already have 4 Ver 4 boards. I'm not waiting to receive any at this time.
Thanks,
Brad
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Video of test of the Ver5 in coldest temps I can create.
RJ
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Video of test of the Ver5 in coldest temps I can create.
RJ
RJ
You crack me up LOL
Cooool Video
Cheers
Rick R.
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Video of test of the Ver5 in coldest temps I can create.
RJ
RJ
You crack me up LOL
Cooool Video
Cheers
Rick R.
please do tell?
That I live in Florida where it doesn't get that cold? That I am the only person in the world with a christmas show in their Freezer? We want to know. ;D
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Video of test of the Ver5 in coldest temps I can create.
RJ
RJ
You crack me up LOL
Cooool Video
Cheers
Rick R.
please do tell?
That I live in Florida where it doesn't get that cold? That I am the only person in the world with a christmas show in their Freezer? We want to know. ;D
Light show in the Freezer
btw: I hope you remembered to put the temp back to its normal setting.
Cheers
Rick R.
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Greetings,,,
Yummy! 512 flavors of ice cream! All in sync!
Keith
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Video of test of the Ver5 in coldest temps I can create.
RJ
RJ
You crack me up LOL
Cooool Video
Cheers
Rick R.
please do tell?
That I live in Florida where it doesn't get that cold? That I am the only person in the world with a christmas show in their Freezer? We want to know. ;D
Light show in the Freezer
btw: I hope you remembered to put the temp back to its normal setting.
Cheers
Rick R.
NO!!!
But the BJ did! ;D
RJ
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RJ
COOOOL Video if you could of had it a couple a weeks ago we did have some cold weather but back to the 70's
JEFF another FL. boy
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niiiiice... It only gets down to the 20's here in SA and then only for a few days... Thanks RJ for the videos.
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Nice Vid
Bill
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Lets go to the extreme, Dry Ice ;D
Well of course Ice on top of the dry Ice and the express on top of the ice. Dry Ice is rated at -109.3°F or -78.5°C... Now i'm definitely sure nothing is colder then that for weather temperature that is
Video of test of the Ver5 in coldest temps I can create.
RJ
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UMMMM aren't the PICs rated to -40C/F? so going below that would not serve any purpose other than to make the board fail... below -30 you might want to start thinking of a uProc controlled resistive heater in each of then enclosures. On that note, it would be neat to find out at what temp it actually stops working and what symptoms show... RJ??
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Greetings,,,
Yummy! 512 flavors of ice cream! All in sync!
Keith
...and did you catch that Great Value Chicken Breast blinkin??? ;D ;D
Brad
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It would only be at -78.5C if the board was in direct contact with the dry ice (which would be bad because the board would probably shatter). You can controll the temperature based on what is place above it (i.e. Ice cubes, carboard, etc....)
UMMMM aren't the PICs rated to -40C/F? so going below that would not serve any purpose other than to make the board fail... below -30 you might want to start thinking of a uProc controlled resistive heater in each of then enclosures. On that note, it would be neat to find out at what temp it actually stops working and what symptoms show... RJ??
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...and did you catch that Great Value Chicken Breast blinkin??? ;D ;D
Brad
What I wouldn't do for a blinkin' Great Value anything right about now...!!!
Count your lucky stars guys.
John
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Some very nice ideas with the upgrades there RJ!
Mike