DiyLightAnimation

Hardware => Other Projects => Topic started by: petefats on July 06, 2008,

Title: DMX Status Panel
Post by: petefats on July 06, 2008,
One of the things I really liked about my 595 was the status leds on each channel.  Not only useful for simple troubleshooting, they also made it have a sort of 'looking into the matrix' feel.  I could look down at the board in the garage and know what portion of the sequence was playing.

I'm not sure if this is possible, but I think it would be neat if you could somehow marry the DMX frontend common to the Lynx family, with some PWM drivers, like LedTriks.  Basically a board that would sit just past the USB->DMX device working as a 2way splitter (like the 4 channel one currently available).  One leg goes out to all the devices, the other uses a start channel of 1, and has 512 leds.  I don't think the leds would be able to support the full range of 256 for the dim value.  I would imagine the pic would have to reduce the resolution to something a little more manageable, since the led's are already in a matrix.  I think even 8 or 16 levels of dim would be enough to make something like this usable.

Way past my current knowledge to design, but whatcha guys think?

Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: blickensderfer on July 06, 2008,
I think this would be a good feature.

Dan
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on July 07, 2008,
Interesting idea.  It's a lot of LEDs but using 8x8 matrix blocks, that's only 8 of them.  The trick is driving the leds; there are a number of pwm driver chips that do 16 at a time, but that would be too many.  What about a micro that does the scanning of the matrix along with the pwm - one per block?  I'd have to look at the numbers to see if it will be fast enough.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: snething on July 07, 2008,
How about using 4 freestyle boards and drive the leds instead of the ssr.  Use the new splitter and your LED status display would be one leg and you could use the other three for your display.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on July 07, 2008,
OK, I just ordered some led matrices and will play.  Sounds like a fun project.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: tconley on July 07, 2008,
How about using 1 8 by 8 matrix and 2 push buttons to control what page to the channels it displays.  You could even put an led number to list the page number currently being display.   That should minimize the number of drivers needed but still allow you to look at every channel.  I even drew up a very rough idea of it.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: petefats on July 07, 2008,
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How about using 4 freestyle boards and drive the leds instead of the ssr.  Use the new splitter and your LED status display would be one leg and you could use the other three for your display.

half of me wants to consider this.  half of me still has blisters from pressing in what felt like 1 billion top mount rj45's as i assembled my freestyle this weekend.  the freestyle works great, but i gotta imagine that its overkill to run ebay x1000 leds one by one.

the other half of me just keeps saying, 'remember those two books you bought a month ago?  go read them.'   prolly should just listen to the other half :)
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: Aussiephil on July 08, 2008,
I wonder - or maybe i'm raining on ideas - my apologies in advance.

If you create something that can display all those channels (512) on LED's - haven't you just made a 512 channel LED Controller.................................

I like the concept of the 8x8 matrix
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on July 08, 2008,
Yes, at least for low-current LEDs.  For now, I will do a 256 channel display (16x16); that should keep the refresh rate reasonable.  A jumper would let it know which half of the universe it is listening to.

Futurlec has the displays for $1.80 each. 

Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on July 26, 2008,
I got the displays and have started to lay out a board for a 256-channel display.  The only question I have is what processor speed I need to handle both the DMX reception at 25K bytes per second, the display scanning, and pwm dimming.  At a 20MHz clock, the DMX itself only allows 800 instructions between characters and the x16  scanning with 8-bit brightness allows 4880 instructions between ticks.  Without writing the code yet, it seems tight but doable.

/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on August 01, 2008,
I guess I will spend some time this weekend writing code.  I just finished loading the boards.

(http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/front_view.jpg)
(http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/back_view.jpg)

/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: christmas_in_VA on August 01, 2008,
wow! That ougt to be interesting.

Ben
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: Greg on August 01, 2008,
Hmm, very interesting.  Was thinking about doing similar but using my laptop as the display device. DMX/USB receiver, little bit of code on the PC... and viola portable diagnostic tool. Oh wait, thats what you're doing even more portable. Battery operated?

Greg
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on August 11, 2008,
I hate it when work gets in the way of blinky flashy...  I now have the display scanning code running (32 levels per pixel; above that I start getting flicker).  Now to add the DMX reception code.

The schematic and PCB files (ExpressPCB) can be found at
www.ardai.net/DMXStatus (http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/)

Note: I have made an updated version (with real Gerbers, so you can use a real PCB house)  and will post them shortly.
/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on September 18, 2008,
I finally got back to working on this.  It's working now, with 64 levels of intensity.  I have tested it with a Enttec USB PRO under my dimmerboard software and under Vixen.  I still need to check out the support for the second half of the universe (right now, I'm only testing one panel set to channels 1-255).

/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: RJ on September 18, 2008,
Very Cool, glad you got her working.

RJ
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on September 18, 2008,
If anyone is interested, here's the code.  It's a bit ugly in spots, but it does what I need.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: petefats on September 18, 2008,
Nice!  I'm really excited about this one, glad to hear you're making good progress. 
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: tconley on November 19, 2008,
how is this one going...... any chance of a coop
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on November 24, 2008,
I'm not sure there would be enough interest in a coop.  I do have 6 boards left over from my protos; I'll sell those for $10 each with the shift registers installed (I have extras of them :-)

BTW, a little loop unravelling and optimization got it to the full 8 bits of intensity per pixel with no flicker :-)  The latest code is on http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/ (http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/)

/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: kylec on November 24, 2008,
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I'm not sure there would be enough interest in a coop.  I do have 6 boards left over from my protos; I'll sell those for $10 each with the shift registers installed (I have extras of them :-)

BTW, a little loop unravelling and optimization got it to the full 8 bits of intensity per pixel with no flicker :-)  The latest code is on http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/ (http://www.ardai.net/DMXStatus/)

/mike


I'd be interested in 1 of those.

Kyle  ;D ;D
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: wbuehler on November 25, 2008,
I would like one

Thanks

Bill

Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: dmaccole on November 25, 2008,
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I'll sell those for $10 each with the shift registers installed (I have extras of them :-)
Me too.

\dmc
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: grages on November 25, 2008,
I'm in if there is one left.

Shawn
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: tconley on November 25, 2008,
me too...  I want one
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: vairmoose on November 26, 2008,
sounds like a coop is a brewing here....   
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: PJNMCT on November 28, 2008,
Just chiming in with my two cents...

For all those that can't do 16x16 matrix decoding in their head, the newbie in me thinks that clear labels with channel numbers on the indicator lights would be a good addition.

-PJ

BTW, I'd be in for a coop...
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: ThaiWay on November 28, 2008,
I have no idea what I'm getting into, but if these guys want one, I do too!

John
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on December 01, 2008,
OK, all of the extras (and my spare board :-) have been claimed.  I'll PM the lucky ones.  As for a coop, maybe after the holidays if there's enough interest.

Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: kylec on December 01, 2008,
Payment sent.

Thanks Mike

Kyle  ;D ;D
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: grages on December 01, 2008,
Ditto, Payment sent

Shawn
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: tconley on December 01, 2008,
me too.. it is sent
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: ThaiWay on December 02, 2008,
Thanks Mike,

Payment sent.

John
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: wbuehler on December 02, 2008,
Mike

Payment sent

Thanks

Bill
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: MrC on December 04, 2008,
I'm sorry that I missed this,  would have loved to have a board.  If you ever make any more boards let me know.

--Stacy
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on December 04, 2008,
They are all going out tomorrow (except John's; he will pick it up Wednesday).  I also tossed in a few inches of 100nf caps since I have a reel of them...  I updated the BOM on my web page with Digikey part numbers for everything but the LEDs; they are from Futurlec.

None of the resistors or cap values are critical; you can use parts on hand if you have them.
/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: dmaccole on December 08, 2008,
Mike:

Board arrived today. I ordered the LEDs from Futurelec just now and will do the Digi-Key order later tonight.

\dmc
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: grages on December 09, 2008,
Mine came yesterday, now to figure it out! ;D

Shawn
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: mmciver on January 11, 2012,
Just curious if any one else is interested in getting a device like this.  I know that I have drooled over it in R.J.'s videos, and as my display gets bigger, or I want to see if I am getting DMX out of my SS Hub, i think a device like this would be handy!!!

Mike.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: Rod R on January 11, 2012,
Yep, I'd be interested I posted a hint, hint comment on FireMedic4Christ post.  I think that maybe a poll could get started and see where it goes.  Maybe if there is enough interest it might go somewhere but n1ist is pretty busy right now with another coop.

http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=7614.0 (http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=7614.0)
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: lightingboy82 on January 11, 2012,
i'd love this also!!
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: caretaker on January 11, 2012,
I also would be interested in one, it would be invaluable for testing. Now if we could get a RGB matrix display to test pixel net channels on...
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: animal on January 13, 2012,
Count me in.

 animal
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: taybrynn on January 13, 2012,
I think software would be an ideal way to display this.  Just pop open a window and have it display the information ... then I would think you should an entire pixelnet universe.  I think you can already do with with LSP perhaps, by creating a big 4096 pixelnet controller and then drawing it out as a big matrix in the visualizer.  I think a standalone utility would be better.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: caretaker on January 14, 2012,
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I think software would be an ideal way to display this.  Just pop open a window and have it display the information ... then I would think you should an entire pixelnet universe.  I think you can already do with with LSP perhaps, by creating a big 4096 pixelnet controller and then drawing it out as a big matrix in the visualizer.  I think a standalone utility would be better.
The problem with having a software display is you are not seeing the true data stream being sent out to the hardware. Unless of course you had another dongle that received the data stream and used that information to drive the display window.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: taybrynn on January 15, 2012,
Thanks for pointing that out. 
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: Steve Gase on January 15, 2012,
Still... :)  I think that a software implementation (simulation) of a dongle, and a simulator/visualizer for DMX and the lights would be a very handy thing.  If it allowed packet capture/viewing at each layer to aid in troubleshooting -- that much better.

The visualizer in LSP is so rough due to size limitations that it has very limited value in visualizing.  I can understand the reason for the limitation -- you don't want your computer to get bogged down visualizing a show when its resources need to be prioritized at getting packets out to the dongles.

But even a visualizer that requires editing and placement can be overkill... having a single indicator to show that a channel has been turned on would help address a number of problems to avoid problem solving in the field.

imho
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: FireMedic4Christ on January 15, 2012,
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Still... :)   . . . The visualizer in LSP is so rough due to size limitations that it has very limited value in visualizing.  I can understand the reason for the limitation -- you don't want your computer to get bogged down visualizing a show when its resources need to be prioritized at getting packets out to the dongles. . .


I feel the same way about the LOR2 visualizer. I got to where I did not even bother drawing things out as it was too time consuming and a hassle at best. I upgraded to LOR3 late in the season and did not try the new vizualizer.  I will start looking at it soon as I am hopefully expanding to whole cul-de-sac next year. I would see value in a software version and / or a hardware version.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: caretaker on January 16, 2012,
Trying not to get off topic most professional lighting consoles like the HOG3 and several others don't have built in visualizers they have you use 3rd party visualizer to see what your lighting layout will look like.  So making a stand alone visualizer that could read in XML files and display the results according to your "light plan" is something that could be done, of course not being a programmer I have not idea the complexities of creating such a program.  I am beginning to think the future of "Christmas" light shows will be using SMPTE time code versus the current grid/time time we are using today. That way syncing up sound, video and lights will be much easier.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: taybrynn on January 16, 2012,
And for me, a 512 channel visualizer doesn't help much in world with 4096 - 16k channels may be become fairly common.

To me, I'm planning on bringing in my star toppers (into my office) to view, because this year I discovered that the RGB SS items
really fade a lot different than incand. lights ... and some of the fades I've used previously are ineffective ... and you really have to see how they look to grasp the non-linear fading characteristics properly.  In fact, I copied from sequencing from my traditional Holdman star into my RGB SS Node star and a of the sequencing disappeared, because they were basically "off" at some of the lower fade intensities ... and looked different at the others.

So to me, I agree that a lot of visualizers are just not worth the time anymore and there nothing like seeing something perform in person to know how it will look.  I think for me, bringing in a star topper into my office will the best visualizer I can use.  Perhaps I could also bring in a SS Flex string arch to visualize how the arch looks and behaves. 

Yes, this is a bit of a pain, but I don't think any software or device is going to show how these items will truly look or behave.

I understand from the testing / diagnostic perspective they would still be nice ... but I test the entire show several times each year when I hook it up, so thats worked for me ... so I"m more interesting in know what looks good and what doesn't.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: mmciver on January 17, 2012,
While I like the idea of software to display what is going on, and I understand the limitations of the visualizers.  I see this hardware unit as a sanity/help tool.

When building dongle's etc. a display like this would be a great first check to make sure everything is working.
I also like who R.J. puts certain sequences on it to see how it is working.

Yes for multi-thousand channel systems it would have limited use, but there are many that are not quite there yet.

just my .02

Mike.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 17, 2012,
admit it, some of you want it, b/c it's a gadget that blinks and flashes   >:D
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: taybrynn on January 17, 2012,
Quote
admit it, some of you want it, b/c it's a gadget that blinks and flashes

of course !!!
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: FireMedic4Christ on January 17, 2012,
Why else would I want one? It goes blinky and flashes, I don't need a practical use for it do I!
 
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admit it, some of you want it, b/c it's a gadget that blinks and flashes   >:D
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: tng5737 on January 17, 2012,
I'd buy such a device - esp. if you could switch select the universe and they plugged together like building blocks.  If the the uni addr didn't match it would simply send the sig to the next block of 512. 
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 17, 2012,
dmx and pixelnet legos
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: caretaker on January 17, 2012,
Just a note: Professional visualizers take into account every fixture and light type including fades and hot spots. Although I don't think as hobbyists were going to spend $500 to $1000 on visualizer software the pro stuff does take light type into account.

Yep in my earlier post I also wished for a Pixelnet versions that could show RGB on 4096 channels like the DMX version.

And of course who wouldn't want a blinky flashy toy!   >.d9
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: mmciver on January 19, 2012,
Of course the reason I want this is it is blinky flashy!  Do we really need another reason:)

Mike.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: Rod R on January 19, 2012,
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Of course the reason I want this is it is blinky flashy!  Do we really need another reason:)

Mike.

No Mike that is reason enough, everyone including me likes "blinky flashy"!!!!!   >.d9
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: chrisatpsu on January 19, 2012,
well, if you love blinky flashy, then stay tuned!
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: TexasStingray on January 19, 2012,
I would really love something like this that I could just hook up my dongle to so I could do some Visual Basic development to help out. I have done a little with java but not with Visual Basic Express, I think it would be easier to create the user interface. anyway if anyone has come visual basic code the could send my way I would appericate it.

Thanks
Scott
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on January 19, 2012,
One issue - RJ's dongle is transmit only. 
/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: taybrynn on January 24, 2012,
Would a device like this have any use in a status display?

For $1.95 I keep thinking this thing might have potential somewhere in DILA world.

Its a 10x12 LED matrix and I"m not sure if all cells can do three colors or not.  I know they are not rgb.

http://www.mpja.com/email/01-24-12.asp?r=336155&s=15 (http://www.mpja.com/email/01-24-12.asp?r=336155&s=15)

Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: n1ist on January 24, 2012,
Unfortunately, that display has all of the cells one color.  The top row has the odd color arrangement as seen in the picture.  It also has a rather odd matrix wiring.

There are standard single-color 8x8 matrix blocks out there.  There are also RGB ones, but the issue there is how to map the DMX channels to pixels.

The original panel was not intended as a visualizer for sequences.  It was for testing and monitoring a hardware DMX data stream.
/mike
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: caretaker on January 24, 2012,
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Unfortunately, that display has all of the cells one color.  The top row has the odd color arrangement as seen in the picture.  It also has a rather odd matrix wiring.

There are standard single-color 8x8 matrix blocks out there.  There are also RGB ones, but the issue there is how to map the DMX channels to pixels.

The original panel was not intended as a visualizer for sequences.  It was for testing and monitoring a hardware DMX data stream.
/mike
Mike,
could Pixelnet be decoded to display on the 8x8 RGB matrix blocks?  I realize you would need 64 8x8 matrix blocks for the 4096 channels of pixel net I was more thinking of the circuit to drive all the matrix boards.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: taybrynn on January 24, 2012,
What would it take to convert a monitor or HD TV display into a matrix for RGB display purposes ?  At some point, I keep coming back to a TV and wondering why that RGB matrix couldn't be used somehow.
Title: Re: DMX Status Panel
Post by: KeithTarpley on January 24, 2012,
Greetings,,,

It's not the actual hardware output, but the various software previews are built into the programs, for the times that it might be good enough.

Keith