DiyLightAnimation

Hardware => Lynx Smart String => Topic started by: RJ on February 19, 2011,

Title: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 19, 2011,

I know many of you have been patiently waiting for the beginning of the Smart String Coop. I also have been in a hurry to get it started.

This is where we stand:

I worked with the rep and manufacture to get some stable specs set and agreed to so we can get the same items over and over.

Ordering from China you do not always get the same thing so I wanted to make sure you got what you needed without any surprises.

This part has been completed. I have agreed to specs and even had them change some wiring colors as all items did not use the same color for the same thing. On some items the ground was green, on other it was blue and green was the data, ect. They have agreed to provide us with a consistent color scheme. The pixel node strings units would have required extra waterproofing to insure all of them did not get any water in them. I asked them to do something about this. With all the diy'ers pushing for better sealing the company that makes them, changed their molding to completely seal the back of the lights.

This then made the lights closer together so I had them add to it to bring it back to the 3.5" spacing they were before.

I had them add 2 ft of lead on the front end of the strings to give us plenty of room from the SSC to the first light.

That's the lights lets talk licensing:

  I also signed an NDA agreement with Philips early on in the process and began the process to be licensed to sell them under agreement with them. This went very well, if not  too slow, up until about a week ago. The Lawyer here in the states and  I got to a usable agreement and It was just a matter of the Lawyer in the Netherlands signing off on it. This is where it became a problem. We had conference calls and basically this Lawyer wanted me to pay royalties for anything that might ever come close to being hooked to a Smart String including the ATX power supply you would purchase to power you units.

It ended with them going to work it out and let me know this week. I let them know I would be moving ahead and not holding my users up any longer so they had till the weekend. Yesterday I received a email saying they wanted to talk some more next week .

At this point I feel it best we just move ahead by having you purchase them yourself. This is no worst than everyone else is doing. It will be far less work for Dad and I and in the end with the additional add on fees they were talking about adding since I would not license the whole Lynx line, I believe you would not have saved much in the long run. We would be charged More licensing fees than normal and the custom duties would have pushed up well beyond the $.63 I had worked up based on the licensing and duties. I based it on the normal fees from philip's not the newer 2 to 3 times that was being mention in our last call.

I spoke with the rep and he will be getting you the best shipping cost he can since they want our business and they know the order will be large. I made sure they understand we will be a repeat customer and so they need to take care of you or I will find another factory to make them for us. I believe you will be treated well. I myself will be ordering stuff just as you will for my show.

To start off I will ask Bill to add the links to order from, to his payment request pm for the members of the Smart String Controller coop since they are the people that need them.  

Once everyone on the coop has had time to order I will post the links for everyone for future purchases since I will not be under the licensing I can post it with no issues to me.    

Here is the price breakdown :

Pictures will be on the order link for you to look at before you place your order. You can also review the video where I was demoing them.

Item 1:

Pixel Strings - ~2 foot of leader added to the front, back sealed completely, 20 awg wire, 12v, 10cm center to center of lights:

25 node string   =  $14.70
50 node string   =  $29.40
75 node string   =  $44.20
100 node string = $58.90
128 node string = $75.40

Item 2:

    ( Think LOR CCR but each led is controllable)

 Flexible led strip waterproof, 12v, ~2 ft lead of 20 awg wire on it for the SSC to hook to color consistent with other items, 4 Meters long with 120 nodes of led's to be compatible with SSC, can be cut to pieces and wire added every ~4 inches.

   $57  each

Item 3:

   Plastic rectangular pixel module with 3 5050 RGB led's controllable by SSC, 3inch long by 5/8" high by 3/8" thick with a screw hole on each end.


   $1 each


Item 4:

     Metal backed 1 3/8" square pixel module with 3 5050 RGB controllable by SSC, Hole in the center and on two sides for mounting.

           $1.10 each

item 5:

     1 meter long Ridged led strip, like the flexible strip but mounted on aluminum channel, 30 led's per meter comes with three pin watertight connectors attached.

      $13.50 each  

item 6:

  Pair of cable (1male / 1 female) ends to match the ridge strip if you want to use the ends on it to connect them.

   $.84 each pair

item 7:

    100 meter Roll of three conductor 20 awg cable same as used on these products like the Strings, modules, ect.  

            $28 each roll   

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: travailen on February 19, 2011,

RJ,
Thank you for the concise and informative explanation. Thanks for all the up front work you have done to get things this far. Thanks to you we have viable well thought out lights available at a reasonable cost. Speaking for myself, after that explanation, I am looking forward to putting those LEDs to work. Great job.  <res.

Thanks,
Rick S

I think the name of this group should be THE DiyLightAnimation

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: JDM1oc on February 19, 2011,

RJ,

Thank you for the explanation and all of the work and time you've put into the development of the smart strings.  Your work has made it possible for the average, non technical person to do some awesome things.  I can't wait to play with these!

Have a great weekend,

Josh

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: jstjohnz on February 19, 2011,

I thought these pixels weren't going to fall under the Philips patents?

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: tng5737 on February 19, 2011,

I am confused about item 2 -  4m with 120 nodes would give a spacing of about 1.3" not 3.5"

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: D56VillageNut on February 19, 2011,

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I am confused about item 2 -  4m with 120 nodes would give a spacing of about 1.3" not 3.5"

Item 2 is the flexible "ribbon" strip and the nodes are closer together.  As RJ said "think LOR CCR".  The 3.5" is for Item 1 the original smart strings with individual nodes spaced 3.5" apart on a 3 wire cable.

Hope that helps.

Alan T

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: ptone on February 19, 2011,

RJ,

I'm sorry about the legal runaround.  I know you seem unflappable, but even you have to be a bit exasperated about this.

Can you fill in a couple gaps about SS now:

What is the pixel chip, is it the 1804 as some have guessed (Constant Voltage)

Are you still thinking of doing a coop for the pixel wire and stranded cat5, or did this only make sense if shipped with nodes?

Can you say anything about approximate shipping costs and times? I know you said best - but do you have a sense of what that translates to from you experience with them so far?

Thanks for all the work put in to spec this out with the factory, and in designing the boards.

-P

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: csf on February 19, 2011,

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but do we need licenses to buy them now, or is the company licensed so we don't need to worry about it.

Just want to know what I need to do to get my lights up and working :)

Thanks again for all the hard work!

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: abrianbaker on February 20, 2011,

Thanks for the info RJ!  Can't wait to get my ssc pm for payment and link to buy nodes!!!    <pop..    >.d9    <res.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: TheBanker on February 20, 2011,

So this means that we get the quanity pricing discounts?  We could still organize a seperate purchase coop on our own?

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: caretaker on February 20, 2011,

RJ, thanks for your hard work on this, I know how frustrating it can be to deal with lawyers.  I doubt I will ever understand big corporations who think they need to squeeze every last dime out of people then act indigent when someone finds a way around them.    

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: mnarel on February 20, 2011,

Thanks RJ.... way more patience than I would ever have.


Initial pricing looks good (about $0.59 per node on strings).  My experience in ordering products from China shows an average of about 30% of base cost added on for shipping.   

Shipping from over there is based on both cubic feet and weight, so it obviously depends on what you are ordering and how dense it is, but in 5 yrs of getting everything from foam, to paper, to electronics, to metals from over there, that's a pretty good average (for DIY level quantities: ie. under 200lbs)

You can also usually ship either air or "slow boat from China' method.  Air is way more expensive, but is the usual mode quoted.  This takes anywhere from 2-5 weeks for delivery depending on factory location, port of entry, etc.   "Slow boat" can cut your shipping costs by up to 25% (down to about 20-22% of base cost) but it will take 6-12 weeks to get your order.

All this seems to translate to an end cost of either $0.75-0.77 per node air, and maybe $0.70-.72 per node by sea (if offered).  I'm just offering this up as my experience with Chinese manufacturing... obviously I have no direct knowledge of this product or manufacturer.

  It would be worth knowing if they'll offer both air and sea shipping quotes though as the $0.03-0.05 differential will make a significant difference on my 5000+node order.

Also, is there any arrangement for paymentss?  Until recently most factories required payment in advance of manufacture.  In the last year or so there have been some concessions to escrow and even a few who started taking paypal.  What is the policy for these folks?  The scale of the potential sales should help keep everyone honest here, but since someof us are looking at considerable sums, a few extra layers of protection would be comforting.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 20, 2011,

You will be able to work it out with them shortly as you will have the link for it and I am sure they can make you happy they have been good to me so far.

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: rrowan on February 20, 2011,

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RJ,


What is the pixel chip, is it the 1804 as some have guessed (Constant Voltage)

Are you still thinking of doing a coop for the pixel wire and stranded cat5, or did this only make sense if shipped with nodes?

-P

I really don't know why people are concern what chip set. I don't know and I don't care

No coop for pixel wire or stranded cat5. You can order 100 meter of wire from the china and RJ will post where to buy the cat5

Rick R.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: trekster on February 20, 2011,

Thank You!

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: ptone on February 20, 2011,

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RJ,


What is the pixel chip, is it the 1804 as some have guessed (Constant Voltage)

-P

I really don't know why people are concern what chip set. I don't know and I don't care

Rick R.

Why do people care if they have an Intel chip or AMD, why care if you have a straight 6 vs V6, etc etc.

If you choose not to care, good for you, however I don't understand the attitude here that seeking knowledge is problematic?

That is a troubling theme on this forum.

-P

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: rrowan on February 20, 2011,

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RJ,


What is the pixel chip, is it the 1804 as some have guessed (Constant Voltage)

-P

I really don't know why people are concern what chip set. I don't know and I don't care

Rick R.

Why do people care if they have an Intel chip or AMD, why care if you have a straight 6 vs V6, etc etc.

If you choose not to care, good for you, however I don't understand the attitude here that seeking knowledge is problematic?

That is a troubling theme on this forum.

-P

Or is it the fact you are on Phil's site and its driving them nuts?

Yeah I'll take the flame for that line

Rick R.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: TheBanker on February 20, 2011,

Ptone, I think its pretty easy to understand.  I am speaking for myself but I do beleive it applies to many guys here.  We are consumers with a bit of techie and the main concern is that this thing works.  I don't care what chip it has as long as it works.  But this thing is 12vdc if that tells you anything.  Also keep in mind, MPH does everything he can to degrade these products, so take information with a grain of salt.  90% of his "concerns" are of no concern at all, to most of us anyway.  So the string uses up .001278 more current than somebody else and the last node has a reduction of .0003456 illumination........bla bla bla bla  Just because something is different doesn't mean is wrong or bad, ie...Chevy vs Ford.  Just be paitient Ptone, its gonna all be good.  Its not like there are a lot of choices out there at this time anyway.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Jeffl on February 20, 2011,

Quote

Or is it the fact you are on Phil's site and its driving them nuts?

Yeah I'll take the flame for that line

Rick R.

Most of us have only been around the decorating arena a few years.  RJ and Phil have been around for many more years and there is history we all don't understand.  I can understand how other developers could be envious of what RJ has accomplished because its very impressive.

What RJ is doing now with Smart Strings very well may be the new standard in RGB control.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: rrowan on February 20, 2011,

Hi Folks,

My post was not intended to take a shot at Phil. I have known Phil for a very long time and were good friends. I truly hope he still thinks of me as a friend. When RJ is ready he will post what chip set he is using.


Cheers

Rick R.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: ptone on February 20, 2011,

People are making an awful lot of assumptions about my motivations - can't a guy just be curious?

 ???

-P

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: chrisatpsu on February 20, 2011,

as far as specs for the hardware so far...   if you look at the forum rules on the wiki...


6.There are no expectations on anyone who would like to share their work with the community. You are not required to provide any information you do not wish to. Anyone who does so retains all rights to it. This is not an open source community.
 
with that being said. one can assume there would be a lot of stuff about the hardware that's not being shared, and is his right.
he's waiting to post the link for a reason. once that happens then you can see what the item actually is.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: TheBanker on February 20, 2011,

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People are making an awful lot of assumptions about my motivations - can't a guy just be curious?

 ???

-P

Yes you can.  Yes you can. LOL Hey hows that motion detection thing you were working on?  I think that was you.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: skulldan on February 20, 2011,

Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but I figure here will be good too so that it is with the pricing info.
If I have figured correctly...
128 max smart string pixels per controller
1 4 meter flexible strip per controller
4 1 meter rigid strips per controller
42 square modules per controller
42 rectangle modules per controller

Trying to plan out what I can handle with the controllers / hub that I have ordered and plan to what I will need to order in the future  ;D.

Thanks again RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Trepidati0n on February 20, 2011,

There is a slight benefit to this going "order direct".  It means we can order a few pixels, 5050's, etc and try them out (order them air shipped) before we go with the big order.   I keep flip flopping on pixels vs 5050' for the house outline.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on February 20, 2011,

I was wondering if there is a time limit for placing orders at the forthcoming link(s) ...

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: TheBanker on February 20, 2011,

My guess would be only from a supply issue...how many does the supplier actually have.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 20, 2011,

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Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but I figure here will be good too so that it is with the pricing info.
If I have figured correctly...
128 max smart string pixels per controller
1 4 meter flexible strip per controller
4 1 meter rigid strips per controller
42 square modules per controller
42 rectangle modules per controller

Trying to plan out what I can handle with the controllers / hub that I have ordered and plan to what I will need to order in the future  ;D.

Thanks again RJ

You are under guessing on the modules, check out the table in the wiki for this :

http://diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Equipment#PixelNet

The plastic modules I came up with 120 of them on a SSC based on the current I read on them.

The Metal units use more current so they are limited 80 per SSC.

Hope this helps you.

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 20, 2011,

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There is a slight benefit to this going "order direct".  It means we can order a few pixels, 5050's, etc and try them out (order them air shipped) before we go with the big order.   I keep flip flopping on pixels vs 5050' for the house outline.

You are correct there is good on this also. You can set the timeline on your order to meet your budget.

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 20, 2011,

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I was wondering if there is a time limit for placing orders at the forthcoming link(s) ...

Not that I am aware,
 these should be permanant links to use later also for orders. I am having them set up the page for us right now so I can get Bill the info. That way when he is ready he can get his coop payment pms out.

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: skulldan on February 20, 2011,

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Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere but I figure here will be good too so that it is with the pricing info.
If I have figured correctly...
128 max smart string pixels per controller
1 4 meter flexible strip per controller
4 1 meter rigid strips per controller
42 square modules per controller
42 rectangle modules per controller

Trying to plan out what I can handle with the controllers / hub that I have ordered and plan to what I will need to order in the future  ;D.

Thanks again RJ

You are under guessing on the modules, check out the table in the wiki for this :

http://diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Equipment#PixelNet

The plastic modules I came up with 120 of them on a SSC based on the current I read on them.

The Metal units use more current so they are limited 80 per SSC.

Hope this helps you.

RJ

Thanks RJ  had not noticed the updated wiki.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: ptone on February 20, 2011,

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http://diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Equipment#PixelNet

The plastic modules I came up with 120 of them on a SSC based on the current I read on them.

The Metal units use more current so they are limited 80 per SSC.

Hope this helps you.

RJ

Sorry - but can we get clarification if the wiki is correct, it states the opposite of this:

Metal : 120
plastic rectangle : 80

I'm hoping the rectangles are the 120 ones.

-P

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: dpitts on February 20, 2011,

RJ,

I saw the video you made that describes the process of water proofing the nodes. Is the water proofing still a necessity with the new water proofing process being applied by the manufacturer?

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 20, 2011,

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http://diylightanimation.com/wiki/index.php?title=Equipment#PixelNet

The plastic modules I came up with 120 of them on a SSC based on the current I read on them.

The Metal units use more current so they are limited 80 per SSC.

Hope this helps you.

RJ

Sorry I believe I typed wrong since I was looking at the wiki when I did it. I can check but if that is what I gave ricky on the night we did the testing it is what is correct.

I will test one to make sure tommorrow.

RJ

Sorry - but can we get clarification if the wiki is correct, it states the opposite of this:

Metal : 120
plastic rectangle : 80

I'm hoping the rectangles are the 120 ones.

-P

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 20, 2011,

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RJ,

I saw the video you made that describes the process of water proofing the nodes. Is the water proofing still a necessity with the new water proofing process being applied by the manufacturer?

Can not say 100% yet but what I have seen looks very promising to not need it. I will be putting some new ones out in the florida summer so I can let you know 100% after a month or two. 

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: tpboyce on February 21, 2011,

Is Florida Summer different from Florida Spring?  For water tightness and UV testing, Florida Spring seems like it would be ideal.  Monsoon one minute followed by intense sunshine the rest of the day!  While I love DIY, I do hope these are more waterproof, since I do not see dippining 1000 pixels as being fun.  And being the klutz that I am, I foresee everything in the garage being seeled except the lights!

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 21, 2011,

I had so little issue with the batch I used for my show this year and these are sealed much better.
Dipping them is nothing you can do 1000 pixels in a couple of hours. But I do not plan on doing mine.

Here is what I will do :

  1- I will not use them where they are pulled on I will strain relief them on my mega tree like I showed I did in the video. (all pixel node strings should not have weight pulling on them). Eves, bushes ect are no issue since they are supported and not carring the whole strings weight. 

  2 - I will connect them up and burn them in for a few days prior to putting them up on mega trees or anywhere that it would be hard to change a node out. This is no different than regular leds I do this with them.

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on February 21, 2011,

Thanks RJ, what you have done here is fantastic, even if its different from what you originally planned.

I found your video (listed under the wiki for pixelnet ->> SS Lights Options) helpful, esp. when considering the great options you came up with at the top of this thread.

Now I am torn between so many ideas and options ... but thats a good problem to have!

http://vimeo.com/18689729

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Lucas on February 26, 2011,

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On items #3 and #4 ... those can be combined (up to 80,120) in a single string ... but they cannot be controlled like individual pixels, correct?

My assumption is that they must all be treated like one RGB module (one RGB channel), whether it be 1 or 80 of them hooked together.

This differs from the node strings (#1), flex strips and ridged strips ... which are all pixel level controllable.

My understanding is that that each module ( a single square or rectangle ) is a node or pixel and can be controlled as such.
In other words each has 3 channels of control (RGB). However each module is made of multiple RGB leds which are controlled together, making up the pixel or module, which is why they are brighter.

EDIT: The smart string controller that RJ has created has a mode to allow you to control a whole string of these (or any other nodes) with just three channels as you describe should you want to do that.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on February 28, 2011,

So the wiki is correct and its 120 for metal backed square modules ... that's my interpretation of the posts in the thread, which are a little confusing.

To me I kind of like the rectangular form factor better, but I'd rather have the lower power usage (and higher max modules) of the square modules.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: deplanche on March 01, 2011,

I am finding myself getting very confused here and I am hoping someone can help me out. 

This is my understanding, which may or may not be correct.  I am hoping someone can let me know one way or the other....

For the Smart Strings themselves, I think the number of LEDs (all having 3 colors each) is equal to the number of individually controllable elements (which I think is being called a node).  And we can order these in lengths of 25, 50, 75, 100, or 128.  There is a limit of 128 of these per SSC.    These can be cut/spliced from 1 to 128 nodes, given some spacing/overall length limits.

For the square and rectangular items, there are 3 LEDs item.  I think each of these counts as 1 node, but I am not certain on that.  These have to be ordered in multiples of 20, which I think means 20 nodes and 60 LEDS.  And the limit on these is different for each per the Wiki.   I think the squares are the metal backed ones, and there can be 120 nodes per SSC.  The plastic ones are the rectangles, and have a limit of 80 nodes per SSC.  I think these also can be cut/spliced from as low as 1 node to as high as the max number.

For the flexible strip, there are 120 LEDs, each of which I think is also a node.  We can only order this is 4 m lengths.  At the store, it is listed as a "set".  Only 1 set can be used per SSC.  It isn't clear if this can be cut and a shorter length used, or if it can only be used at the 4 m (13') length.

For the rigid strip, there are 30 LEDs, which I think are all nodes, for the 1 m long strip.  This are ordered in "pieces" which are the 1 m long lengths.  4 of these, can be used per SSC similiar to the flex strip, but clearly can be used in 1 m interval lengths.  Though it's not clear if this can be shortened to something less than 1 m.

So, does that sound correct?  If not, where am I wrong?

Thanks,

Jon

PS - For clarification, each "node" would have 3 channels in the software, 1 each for red, green, and blue.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: mokeefe on March 01, 2011,

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For the flexible strip, there are 120 LEDs, each of which I think is also a node.  We can only order this is 4 m lengths.  At the store, it is listed as a "set".  Only 1 set can be used per SSC.  It isn't clear if this can be cut and a shorter length used, or if it can only be used at the 4 m (13') length.

I think most of what you say is accurate.  I can tell you that the flexible strip product CAN be cut into smaller sections.  There are marks on the strip where this cut can be made.  It is roughly every 4 inches which is every third LED.

-Mike

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on March 01, 2011,

Jon, you have it correct.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: tng5737 on March 01, 2011,

< The plastic ones are the rectangles, and have a limit of 80 nodes per SSC.  I think these also can be cut/spliced from as low as 1 node to as high as the max number.>

I don't believe that you can cut the rectangles.   So you have to use them in groups of three's  since there are three nodes per rectangle.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on March 01, 2011,

My understanding is that each module (whether it be square or rectangular) is treated is a single node ... and all 3 LED(s) on that module are controlled as a group (like 1 node).    

If you daisy chain 10 modules, you have 10 nodes to control (but 30 LEDs total).

My understanding is that you can have either 80 rectangular modules or 120 square modules on a SSC.  I believe its referring to max modules and not max LED(s) [ not modules / 3 ] .

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Lucas on March 02, 2011,

In my head I think of it like this:

L.E.D = Light Emitting Diode ( single light source, kind of like a silicon light bulb, 2 wires)

R.G.B = Red Green Blue ( three colours )

R.G.B. L.E.D = A LED made up of three other LEDs, one each of red green & blue, 4 wires, one of each colour and a common)

Channel = A software controlled switch which can only turn on and off a single LED or colour in a RGB LED. Hence an RGB LED requires three channels to be controlled.

Pixel / Node = A single controllable point of light.  Takes three channels to allow any colour to be created. Just like the dots in your TV or computer screen. It can made up of three LEDs one for each colour or a single RGB LED. Some pixel are made of multiple RGB LEDs for extra brightness. There might be any number of LEDs but the whole thing is still a single pixel or node.

Pixel strings are a string of small pixels/nodes typically made of 1 RGB led per pixel/node. They come in various lengths. You can cut and splice them at will, provided that you do not exceed 128 pixels/nodes and you keep the max length between nodes down to around three feet.

Square and Rectangle Pixel nodes are just that. A pixel in a square shape or a pixel in a rectangle shape. You can connect up as many or as little as you like, and you can even mix them up with the smart strings, mix and match to suit your display, the same limitations apply as the smart strings.

Flexible strip is a flexible bendable strip of 120 pixels/nodes. I believe you can cut to shorter lengths of a fixed size. It can be treated the same as the pixels/ strings above so you could have a 1 meter (3 foot) length of flexible strip (30 pixels) with 5 square pixels/nodes stuck on the end.

Rigid strip is a solid strip of 30 pixels/nodes. I dont think you can cut it, but you can connect them up to other pixels/nodes keeping in mind the above limitations.

A smart string controller (SSC) is a device which converts pixelnet data into pixel/node language. It can control a maximum of 128 pixels. It also has a limit to the amount of current or power that it can put out, so the number of devices is also limited by that. (128 pixel string nodes, 120 rectangle, 80 square, 4 rigid strips or 120 flexible strip nodes - or any other combination that uses the same amount of power. )

The smallest element you can control is a channel, but that is not that useful because you need three of them to do anything. The smallest element you can physically get is a pixel/node. The term element is confusing because it can apply to both channel or pixel, which are clearly different because a pixel needs 3 channels (RGB).

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: chrisatpsu on March 02, 2011,

when in doubt, look at the number of chips...

smart string nodes have one chip in each pixel node.
small metal backed pixels have three rgbleds, but only one chip...
the plastic rectangle has three rgbleds, but only one chip...
the flexible strip has one chip per each set of three rgbleds...

each chip is 3 channels in vixen(or other software), each rgbled is a color mixable light
the limitations are based from staying below about 4amps (roughly) and less than 128 nodes per smart string controller.

the chip is the 16pin TM1804/1809 chip that controls the R,G, and B

the pictures are not entirely accurate, as they will ALL only have three wires. DataA, Ground, and 12v.
the pictures that show 4 wires, are only giving you an idea what the hardware should look like, not necesarily the wire pinouts.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: chrisatpsu on March 02, 2011,

i wrote that each chip is three channels in vixen...   yes, i know about hybrid, and string modes. I just wrote it that way to reduce confusion. most people will be sequencing their lights in pixel mode.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Lucas on March 02, 2011,

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i wrote that each chip is three channels in vixen...   yes, i know about hybrid, and string modes. I just wrote it that way to reduce confusion. most people will be sequencing their lights in pixel mode.

Except for the chip in the rigid strip, it takes 9 channels to control the three pixels per chip   ;D

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: rrowan on March 02, 2011,

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In my head I think of it like this:


Channel = A software controlled switch which can only turn on and off a single LED or colour in a RGB LED. Hence an RGB LED requires three channels to be controlled.

A smart string controller (SSC) is a device which converts pixelnet data into pixel/node language. It can control a maximum of 128 pixels. It also has a limit to the amount of current or power that it can put out, so the number of devices is also limited by that. (128 pixel string nodes, 120 rectangle, 80 square, 4 rigid strips or 120 flexible strip nodes - or any other combination that uses the same amount of power. )

LEDs can also be dimmed.

The SSC is limited to 128 pixel nodes but that is only for a safely reason, so we don't pull too many amps though the cat5 cable causing the wire to over heat or worst. It was purposely limited in the Controllers's firmware.

Cheers

Rick R.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on March 02, 2011,

This is the simple no confusion answer,


If you are running the Smart String Controller in individual mode where you can control each node seperate:

   The flexible strips are 3 channel per led. So 4 meters x 30 leds per meter = 360 channels.

  Each module Square or rectangle is 3 channels (forget about the 3 leds they do the same thing).

  Ridge can not be cut (not reasonably anyway) it is 30 leds so it is 90 channels per bar.

   I would recommend from mixing and matching different things on the same controller. The color order can get you if you do that.  not all are RGB some are BGR ect.  The SSC will handle this for you so you work with them all as RGB but not per item on the string.


If you run the SSC in String mode then:


     The whole sting of whatever you have is just three channels total.

             RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: z327 on March 03, 2011,

I'm confused on ordering the flexible strip. The web site says:

 4m waterproof LED digital strip by tube (DC12V input),without controller,10pcs TM1809IC/m,30pcs 5050 RGB LED/m;DC12V input
$53 for 1 Set

This sounds to me like a strip will only have 30 LEDs on it.
So for $53 I get 90 nodes not 120?

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Lucas on March 03, 2011,

The flexible strip has 30 RGB LEDs (pixels/nodes) per meter (30pcs 5050 RGB LED/m) so the 4m of strip gives you 120 LEDs/nodes/pixels.

- Lucas

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: deplanche on March 03, 2011,

If I am understanding all this correctly, then the flexistrip actually would have the lowest cost per node, at $0.44 each.  It also appears to have the lowest shipping costs on a node by node basis.  But you can only by it in 120 node (4 m) increments.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: smartcontrols on March 03, 2011,

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If I am understanding all this correctly, then the flexistrip actually would have the lowest cost per node, at $0.44 each.  It also appears to have the lowest shipping costs on a node by node basis.  But you can only by it in 120 node (4 m) increments.

Flex strips may be cheaper per node, but they are almost 3 times more per foot.

So be sure you are comparing apples to apples, depending on how you are using them in your display.

Also if you covering any large area with flex strips keep in mind the extra controllers and power supplies needed.

There is a place for each of them.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: mokeefe on March 03, 2011,

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If I am understanding all this correctly, then the flexistrip actually would have the lowest cost per node, at $0.44 each.  It also appears to have the lowest shipping costs on a node by node basis.  But you can only by it in 120 node (4 m) increments.

While you can only buy the strips in 4 m lengths, it can be cut (about every 4 inches)  to shorter lengths.  Shorter lengths can be reconnected with some soldering to make longer lengths (so long as they don't exceed the maximum number of nodes per controller).

-Mike

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on March 03, 2011,

I think the description at the vendor page for the flex strip ... is somewhat inaccurate and probably a copy and paste error.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: mokeefe on March 03, 2011,

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I think the description at the vendor page for the flex strip ... is somewhat inaccurate and probably a copy and paste error.

Just curious what part of the description for the flex strips did you think was inaccurate?

-Mike

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: taybrynn on March 03, 2011,

Quote

10pcs TM1809IC/m

I wasn't sure if this was correct.

It also mentions "strip by tube" and I didn't think these were strips in a flexible tube, but maybe they are.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: rm357 on March 03, 2011,

The TM1809 is a 9 channel controller chip and can control 3 of the RGB LEDs.
There are 30 of the RGB LEDs and 10 of the RM1809 controllers per meter.

Also, the strip can be cut into pieces (as marked) with each piece containing one TM1809 and the 3 RGB LEDs that it controlls. Each piece being 100mm or about 4 inches.

RM

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: foxathome on April 13, 2011,

I've just received 16 - 75 node smart strings and am a little concerned. The nodes are encased in the clear plastic molding, but as I have been inspecting my order I see that many of the nodes have portions of the circuit boards exposed. Has anyone else seen this, or looked in detail at the nodes? I'm worried that the weather will ruin these and I spent to much to have them die in my rainy northwestern US weather.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: tng5737 on April 14, 2011,

can you post a pic?   I have not seen that with any of my nodes.   I would definitely contact RAY and discuss this.    Is it a significant portion of the string or only one or two?    If only a few - I'm sure Ray will make good by replacing them.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: kylec on April 14, 2011,

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I've just received 16 - 75 node smart strings and am a little concerned. The nodes are encased in the clear plastic molding, but as I have been inspecting my order I see that many of the nodes have portions of the circuit boards exposed. Has anyone else seen this, or looked in detail at the nodes? I'm worried that the weather will ruin these and I spent to much to have them die in my rainy northwestern US weather.

About 10% of my nodes are like this.  I am going to use silicon to seal most of them.  I talked to Ray, he said he would replace any that I wasn't happy with.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: foxathome on April 18, 2011,

The word from Ray is that he's sent many back to the factory and is asking for better quality. We are working on a solution for my strings and it sounds like they should be getting better. He's aware of the problems.
I also advise buying the controller he sells (Something like a TM2010) to allow testing when you receive the lights and before you can build all of the other components.
Wishing I had waited to order lights until summer.
 

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: tng5737 on April 18, 2011,

TH2010-X

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: jnealand on April 19, 2011,

All these issues that are cropping up just makes me glad I waited to order strings and I plan to wait until the controllers ship or later.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: jeffcoast on April 19, 2011,

yeah, I am waiting to make sure I can actually solder this stuff to make it work before I commit even more money to this. I finally ordered all the stuff I need to make a dongle, just waiting on the delivery. Hopefully by the time I am ready all the issues will be worked out and they will be perfect. And I can start actually designing what I will be doing, and what I will need.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: gsxrgirl7 on February 12, 2012,

RJ, do you know when the next smart string coop will be for 2012 or if there will be one this year?  I am now dipping my hands onto RGB and learning so much from your site, and I think getting the nodes made your way, 12v, etc with the ssc's and hubs is the way I want to go. 
Thanks

Title: Smart String COOP info
Post by: Mike Hill on February 12, 2012,

All good info here.  Thanks for the direction and advice.

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: RJ on February 12, 2012,

We have a coop manager lined up but we are waiting on the first few of the updated pcbs to test first.

The Coop?  maybe a month away?

RJ

Title: Re: Smart String COOP info
Post by: gsxrgirl7 on February 12, 2012,

Thanks so much RJ!  I will be on the lookout for it for sure!  I already got in on the etherdongle coop.
Can't wait to get to playing with all the new toys!  Thanks for all you do!