DiyLightAnimation
Hardware => Lynx EtherDongle => Topic started by: comporder1 on December 04, 2011,
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I am trying to think ahead. I need a way to get DMX to my neighbors house across and down the street. Wired is not an option and wireless doesn't seem to capable of the distance of transmission. I am wondering if I can transmit to his house via internet. Things I am not sure about: 1) I am pretty sure my IP does allow multicast so I would need software and hardware to communicate via unicast. 2) amount of bandwidth required per universe/packet/etc. I have a 3Mb uplink and my neighbor has 6Mb down.
I understand the routing/port configuration requirements of this setup. I can make that happen no problem.
Has anyone tried this type of setup? I have read through most of the threads and there isn't much official documentation that I could find.
Thanks for the discussion.
Carey
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No the etherdongle follows the E1.31 spec so it is multicast. There is language in he spec for the use of unicast as more a side note but e1.31 is multicast in normal form. How far can the other house be if you can see it from your house as part of the show. Are you sure a slave unit wirelessly will not occomplish this same thing?
RJ
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It would be about a 150 yard shot for the wireless.
Is unicast something that could maybe be worked into the firmware? It looks as though xlights is already capable of sending unicast.
Thanks for the reply RJ
Carey
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I guess we could answer the bandwidth question first. 3Mb sufficient for one universe?
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I guess we could answer the bandwidth question first. 3Mb sufficient for one universe?
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I think you are missing the point. You won't be sending 3mb wireless between the EtherDongle and the slave unit. Only a 8 byte timing mark. The slave has the full show loaded on it.
Rick R.
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Ahhh, I forgot about the new Conductor/Slave setup. That might be a possiblity, but I would prefer to run the show from a computer because I tweak my show almost daily throughout the season. It would be a pain to have to update the conductor/slave units all the time.
But Rick, you missed my point. I am not trying to send 3Mb wirelessly. I want to send e1.31 via internet to my neighbors house. My uplink is 3Mb, which would be the bottleneck.
Carey
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maybe thru a VPN connection? Dont think most routers will send out the multicast part and it is designed to be a local lan type setup, same thing with the 3 reserved class c ip address ranged, 192.X., 10.X and i forget the 3rd one. Routers will not send out traffic on the internet for those class C addresses.....
The free Hamachi VPN might be your best bet.....
Myk
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I figure VPN would be an option, but most of the cheaper VPN hardware devices that I have used do not support multicast. The easiest/cheapest option would be a e1.31 device that accepts unicast. Even still I have to figure out bandwidth requirements.
Carey
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I've done a little more investigating into the bandwidth requirements for e1.31. To produce the DMX output, an e1.31 device needs about 20-50, 500-700 byte UDP packets per second.
So, put a little math to the high end of those numbers
700 byte packet
x 8 bits/byte
5600 bits/packet
x 50 packets/second
280,000 bits/second or 280 kbps
So my 3Mbps inet connection should (in theory) be able to handle this throughput fine. I found an application that will test UDP throughput that I plan to test this weekend.
I'll update with my findings.
Carey
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May be academic, but I played with a multicast to unicast relay last spring. It worked great for high def video, so it would probably work for your application. It's a software solution...you need to config a relay on your network to accept the multicast stream, it then sends via Unicast to the destination which can then spit it back out as multicast.
http://www.live555.com/liveGateForIntranets/
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Definitely looks like an option. My other option is the j1sys ECG-DR4 which supports unicast. I have a friend that has one that we are going to test after the season. I'm still looking at options.
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How about a WIFI like from your house. Ubiquiti makes a good wireless bridge called a nano station which basically emulates a wire line. 2 of these would make a complete like and should have no problem going 150 yards.
http://www.amazon.com/UBIQUITI-NANOSTATION-LOCO-802-11B-WIRELESS/dp/B0023SDH8E
KEN
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Any idea if it supports multicast?
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Quoted from a "Senior Member" on the Ubiquiti forum:
"NS2 and other ubnt devices support multicast routing, but if you gonna use multicast for IPTV or something like that, you will need to manage how to somehow "tunnel" multicast traffic into unicast, because large multicast traffic is pain for the wireless, due it's nature."
So I guess this would be an option. Then my neighbor and I could share inet too! JK 8)
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Maybe I am missing the point here or stating the obvious, but keep in mind that Multicast is designed to utilize bandwidth more efficiently than unicast!
The concept is that if I have an endpoint like a switch that has multiple endpoints that are subscribed to the multicast stream, multicast enables the switch to received one stream from the originator, whether wireless/wan/etc., and replicate packets locally to the different subscribed endpoints.
I am not sure why you would want to switch to unicast......
Just my .02
Mike.
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Multicast is not permitted over the Internet. The whole purpose of this thread is to get DMX to my neighbors house via the inet.
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oh, I missed that part:)
There are VPN solutions that will allow you to encapsulate multicast and transmit over the internet.
I have seen it done multiple times at work, and I believe there is a thread on aussiechristmas that talks about doing multicast from Australia to Los Angeles over the Internet and controlling a show.
Mike.
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The product I mentioned solves the multicast over Internet issue by converting to Unicast and then spitting out Multicast on the opposite end. Works great...I promise and no need to fuss with silly old VPN's....
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I'm liking the looks of it pokey. I wonder if the transmit end can run on the same machine as the computer the show is running from?
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Given the tiny amount of data, I expect it can. I was using it for High Def video, so it was a little more involved. I can't see it being an issue running on the same device.
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RJ,
Knowing that the one and only etherdongle coop is coming soon, could you speak to the possibility of adding unicast support?
Thank you,
Carey
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you could do a wireless ethernet bridge, and or repeater to keep it on the same network, if one computer is running the show
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That has all been discussed. I am interested in unicast support.
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RJ has already said no
Rick R.
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I've not seen where he has said "no, I do not plan to add unicast support"
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http://diylightanimation.com/index.php?topic=6915.msg101944#msg101944
The very first reply RJ said No
Rick R.
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One other thing to consider is your latency between networks. I'd guess you'll run around 55ms at best, but utilization of that link may push you to several hundred ms very quickly. This may be noticeable when you have your yard less than 1 ms and your neighbors latency fluctuating.
I'd use the conductor slave units if possible as this will yield the best results. As a secondary option, I'd look at the point to point wireless option. In open space 150 yards isn't too large a distance.
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I don't have an Etherdongle to perform a similar test, but Comporder1 just successfully ran my 128 Channel Bellagio Poles from his house (in Mississippi) to my house (in Texas).
I put my E1.31 (an ECG-DR4) device in my router's DMZ and sent him the correct IP. He knew the universe and xLights sequenced the test flawlessly.
Now a question for the Etherdongle owners. Does each universe have its own IP address? or does the Etherdongle have a single IP for all of its output? (I ask, because the ECG-DR4 uses 1 IP address for all four universes)
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And this would prove what. That you can send the data to the unit?
What the poster is saying is he is planning to run the show syncing houses in sight of each other for his show.If he runs it throught the internet any delay will be seen. Across states is not going to matter how would you know if it was in sync with his?
1.31 on unicast is not normal. All you have to do is google it and it all comes back to one set of equipment by one person who is also a Diyer like us.
Some of it does not sound like some of the people who made the protocol think it was a good idea as in this thread you'll find when you google it.
http://www.madrix.com/en/home/forum.html?jfile=viewtopic.php&f=3&t=242&start=0
When he did it I read the post as he was working around an issue he had with the buffer overrunning on him with multicast and would have it fixed in a later version.
http://auschristmaslighting.com/forums/index.php?topic=432.0
I do not have this issue so I am not in need to create a different way to handle 1.31 I also wanted to be fully supported by things like Madrix and other software & devices so I stayed working just like everyone else with multicast. This also allows me to make the device a real plug and play kind of thing that requires no configuring just plug it in.
In the end as always do as I always say, use what works for you. The way I am setting up to handle multishows will work without the modified protocol.
I did not feel I needed to say all this but got a pm from a staff member concerned this thread was going to turn into a battle of equipment or something and go down hill as they always do at that point, I assured him it would not because our mods would lock it before it was a problem. Every piece of equipment is better for someone. If your goal is to span states with your show where latecy is not an issue than that may be the way to go. I am only out to do my whole block.
RJ
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Thank you RJ for that post. It is not my goal to start an equipment war. In fact, I have intentionally not named any equipment here that is not supported by this forum. I think JonB256 only asked because he doesn't understand how the etherdongle works. It really does not make since to start equipment wars, as there is really no profit or anything to gain by "selling" more units than the next guy.
I really appreciate the comment you made "use what works best for you". For me, distance to my neighbors house is a major factor. And for this "IT geek" the most direct way would be internet. I realize that there are 10 ways to do anything (read all the above posts!), but the simplest most effective least latency way is unicast. My last question above was just to clearly see if you had any intentions to adding unicast support to the etherdongle.
The plug and play aspect of the etherdongle is remarkable, and I have no problem with it following the strict multicast protocol. But one could argue the need for multicast at all for our hobby. Unless there are two units that need the same data, there will be wasted bandwith. For commercial applications (concert venues) where there may be 50 spotlights on an e1.31 network that use the same data, it makes complete sense. Maybe one day we will see a 16 channel e1.31 Lynx Express! >.d9
Practicality aside, I'll have to admit, it was neat to control 128 channels of lights 2 states away! It was basically a proof of concept test. My neighbor and I use the same cable ISP on the same node. I suspect the latency will be minimal. I will report back on our findings.
Thank you RJ for all you have done for the progression of this hobby.
Carey