Author Topic: Smart String Project 2013-2016  (Read 22831 times)

Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #105 on: January 08, 2016, »
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What do you want to use it for?

This is the strobe project from this whole thread.

At short bursts, I don't need a heatsink, but as others build these, some will want to keep them on longer where they will generate heat.

Think of a song building to a loud ending. I scan see these flashing like strobes, then finally staying on the the very end, and slowly fading with the rest of the show lights.
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Offline tbone321

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #106 on: January 08, 2016, »
Keeping them on for any real length of time would not be practical in such a small enclosure.  The problem with any heat sink is that they require enough airflow to disperse the absorbed heat.  This is the reason for the current limitations on the LE and the size of the Aether.  Packing the LED and heat sink into that small tube would give no air flow at all so you would need a heavy heat sink to absorb enough heat to be worthwhile.  The problem is that it would also take a while for that heat sink to cool back down, especially with no air flow.
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Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #107 on: January 08, 2016, »
Which is why I'm asking for suggestions.

I didn't require that it had to be placed in the tube.

I left the question open ended so that  I could see what people would have come up with.
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Offline tbone321

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #108 on: January 08, 2016, »
With the example that you gave above, I would use a chunk of lead.  The LED module needs to be attached to the heat sink so whatever the LED is in, the heat sink needs to be in as well.  If you want to keep the unit small like using a SSC enclosure, I would go with mass over size (surface area) to give it the ability to absorb and store more heat. 
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Offline zwiller

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #109 on: January 09, 2016, »
So you waited for the bottom of the rgb chip market to bottom before resurrecting this thread?  >:D   

For the cost of the led, I'd say just caution the user to keep duty cycle low...  One could use RobG 10w floods if they want something that stays on more or all the time.  I re-read the thread and thought heat was mostly non issue?  Any chance you can eek out 4 with a 2811 chip?  Will your design work for non-rgb? 

2016 is year of the strobes for me.  I just had a Komblinkin kit and RGBW board components delivered yesterday.  Gonna be try all sorts of things.  First thing is comparing sequencing a strobe effect to the komblinkin auto-random. 
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Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #110 on: January 10, 2016, »
I'm firing up this project again, because I know YOU sir, are desperately waiting for an RGB Strobe.

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So you waited for the bottom of the rgb chip market to bottom before resurrecting this thread?  >:D   

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Offline packetbob

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Re: Smart String Project 2016
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2016, »
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Any ideas on a heatsink for the RGB LED?
If I take the tabs off the side of the clear dome, It will fit inside the thinwall pvc that we used for the SSC's. But I'm open to ideas...

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I'm making a few RGB mini spots with a similar LED module so I was also looking for some sort of heat sink....
I was going to just use some aluminum stock (perhaps some 1" x 1/16" strip bent in a U shape) but then I found some on Aliexpress that looked like the may be better...
I had hoped they would fit the LED base but they don't exactly so I will have to do some drilling...
My plan is to mount them in 2" PVC tubes and run them off of a DMX constant current controller...


« Last Edit: January 10, 2016, by packetbob »
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Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Smart String Project 2016
« Reply #112 on: January 12, 2016, »
You just gave me an idea.  :)
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Offline packetbob

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #113 on: January 14, 2016, »
What is your idea????
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Offline chrisatpsu

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #114 on: January 17, 2016, »
your heatsink idea
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Offline lrhorer

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Re: Smart String Project 2013-2016
« Reply #115 on: February 21, 2016, »
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With the example that you gave above, I would use a chunk of lead.  The LED module needs to be attached to the heat sink so whatever the LED is in, the heat sink needs to be in as well.  If you want to keep the unit small like using a SSC enclosure, I would go with mass over size (surface area) to give it the ability to absorb and store more heat.
Lead!?  Um, no.  Gravitational mass and thermal mass are two different things, and not always closely linked.  The amount of heat required to raise the temperature of a unit mass of a material one degree C is called the specific heat of the material.  Lead does not have a very high specific heat, meaning it only takes a relatively small amount of heat to raise its temperature a given amount.  The specific heat of Lead is 0.13 KiloJoules / Kilogram * degrees K.  (The same as gold, as it happens.)  Copper is 0.39 and Aluminum is 0.91.  Given its low cost and the ease of working with it, as well as its low corrosivity in dry air, Aluminum is just about the best choice for a heat sink if you want the material just to heat and cool slowly.  There are a number of metals that are much better, but cost much more and are harder to work and maintain:

Beryllium - 1.83
Lithium - 3.57
Sodium - 1.21

Iron and Steel aren't too bad, running around 0.5.

For a heat sink, however, one wants not only a large thermal mass, but also a low heat conductivity.  If the heat conductivity of a material is high, then even though it may have a high thermal mass, it may not tend to stay cool near the component, which is what is important.  The temperature near the component will rise quickly, while the rest of the mass remains cool for a much longer time.  Not only is the conductivity important, but also the total conductance, assuming the heat sink is not a closed system.  In general, the heat sink acts as both a buffer and any or all of a radiative, conductive, or convective transport to an infinite medium such as air, water, or space.  To this end, in general the smaller the distance from the heat source to the external medium and the greater the area of the sink in contact with both the source and the medium, the better.  That is why your car radiator and your Air Conditional condenser coil is made of either thin copper or aluminum tubes attached to a myriad of very thin copper or aluminum plates.  It gives the shortest possible distance between the coolant fluid and the surrounding air / space combined with the highest practical surface area to both radiate and conduct heat into the outside environment.

Aluminum has a fairly high thermal conductivity given its price - around 68 Watts / meter * degree K.  Copper is much better at around 129, but copper is heavier, more expensive, and harder to work - with the exception of welding, brazing, and soldering, which is very easy with copper.  Copper also tends to corrode more in dry air than aluminum.  These facts are why one sees many PC cooling systems employ thin Aluminum fins as radiators along with copper heat pipes to transport the heat from the device contact plate (also usually copper) to the radiators.

Lead is very poor, at only 11.6.  Even some Stainless Steel alloys (which are very poor heat conductors) are better than Lead.  Indeed, there are not a whole lot of pure metals that are worse than Lead.  The very best conductor of heat of all pure metals is Silver, with a heat conductivity of 136 W/(m x K).  Gold is next, at 106.  At this point one might notice the relative heat conductivity of the various metals and alloys falls fairly closely in line with the relative electrical conductivity.  There is a reason for this.  The mechanisms which produce thermal conductivity and electrical conductivity in metals have a number of fundamental processes in common, so the better a conductor of heat the metal or metal alloy is, the better a conductor of electricity it is also in general going to be, with Silver and then Gold being the best of both.  Copper is very high up in the list, Aluminum is fairly high up the list, and Lead is at the bottom.  OTOH, the mechanisms responsible for determining the gravitational density or thermal heat capacity of a metal have almost nothing in common with those responsible for conductivity.

Oh, and Lead is fairly expensive these days.