Author Topic: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(  (Read 3594 times)

Offline towtruck

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« on: March 30, 2013, »
Ok, I am going to live up to my avatar here ... I am a bit confused with the dumb strings.

I was looking at Mr. zwillers 18" mini tree using 5050 dumb leds and I *like* it. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Can I get some clarification on a few things or corrections as I ramble along.

Ok, I think I get dumb strings as a string of x nodes that all work as if they were 1 node, ie they are all supposed to do the same thing.

Are dumb string nodes limited to certain colors? ie can only do white, blue, red and green? Or can they do any colors?

Looking through past coops it seems that the DSC is approx +50% the SSC cost.  I know a subjective question, but am I just better off sticking to SSC and smart strings for the better flexibility and lower controller cost?

I am sure I will think of more as I go, but thanks for any replies.

Steve


Offline rdebolt

  • Patron Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1605
    • Christmas in Boise
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2013, »
A dumb string is a string that all of the lights in one string all do the same thing ie any rgb color. A smart string is where every individual light can be controlled with any rgb color. That is my interpretation of it anyway in basic and simple terms. Smart Strings will have a chip on each node.

Offline taybrynn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2042
    • RockinChristmas
Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2013, »
Actually the dsc costs more than a v2/v3 ssc does ... And the new ssc v4 should cost even less.m. I Think the dsc was around $12 and a the ssc was around $8 ... And new ssc v4 around $5 in coop volumes.

To me, dumb strings save a little on up front costs ... but a smart string is so much more versatile and I think they make more sense unless money is the only consideration.   

If your say just wanting to be able to change string colors, the dumb strings will work just fine.   If you ever decide to control each light for things like what nutcracker can do ... Then you'll need smart strings and sscs.
Scott - Castle Rock, Colorado   [ 2 homes, 100% RGB in 2016; since 2008; over 32k channels of E1.31 ]
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline towtruck

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2013, »
I am thinking the versitility of the smart strings make them a better fit for me as I sort out what I can do.

Once I get some gear and time to play with it I will have a better feel for what I can get it to do for me.

Thanks,
Steve

Offline zwiller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1740
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, »
"Mr. Zwiller"

 <la..

There are other ways to run dumb gear besides the DSC.  I like the MR16 and Ray's 27 channel controller both being dmx.  There are also others.  That said, I do prefer smart gear over dumb but IMO you will eventually find some elements (mini trees for me) that don't really need to be smart.  Also keep in mind smart gear will drive channel counts up fast and can make sequencing exceedingly complex.  IE - I went from 160 channels of dmx to over 6k by adding smart strings last year.   So it's not just a cost issue... 
Sam, who is happy he flashed his etherdongle with newest firmware!

"Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."

Offline jnealand

  • Patron Member
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2494
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Also keep in mind smart gear will drive channel counts up fast and can make sequencing exceedingly complex.  IE - I went from 160 channels of dmx to over 6k by adding smart strings last year.   So it's not just a cost issue... 

+1  Amen brother
Jim Nealand
Kennesaw, GA

Offline tbone321

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4055
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, »
That is not completely true.  You can put the SSC in dumb string mode wich reduces the channel count down to the same number as dumb string controllers.  Each controller has it's place and it's really up to the person to decide what and where.  While the SSC controllrs are less expensive and have more flexability than the DSC, they also require much more expensive strings that are more succeptable to damage.  You also have significant restrictions in the distance between nodes.  An advantag to the DSC is that it really is a mini 3 channel 12V 4A dimmer.  While it was designed for dumb strings, it can really control any 12V item that can be dimmed provided you stay within the current limitations.  Because of the lower cost per node for dumb strings, you can get more density per dollar on the items that you are creating so if you really don't need seperate node control on thise items, the DSC makes more sense. 
If at first you don't succeed,
your not cut out for sky diving

Offline davron12

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2013, »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
"Mr. Zwiller"

 <la..

There are other ways to run dumb gear besides the DSC.  I like the MR16 and Ray's 27 channel controller both being dmx.  There are also others.  That said, I do prefer smart gear over dumb but IMO you will eventually find some elements (mini trees for me) that don't really need to be smart.  Also keep in mind smart gear will drive channel counts up fast and can make sequencing exceedingly complex.  IE - I went from 160 channels of dmx to over 6k by adding smart strings last year.   So it's not just a cost issue...

...unless you just group your string into one big group, treating it as a dumb string.


Personally, I use dumb strings in all my regular trees, wreaths, and other "solid" objects because they're cheaper and I have absolutely no plans of controlling individual nodes.

Offline towtruck

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2013, »
I was thinking that I would use a LE and a set of led lights though it just came to me now that it would only give me the one color.

Guess I will have a need for some dumb strings.


Offline zwiller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1740
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2013, »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Personally, I use dumb strings in all my regular trees, wreaths, and other "solid" objects because they're cheaper and I have absolutely no plans of controlling individual nodes.

Did you ever sort out the bad dumb node issue?  Something to do with a smaller resistor, less nodes on a DSC? 

Any other pointers for someone converting solid objects to dumb rgb?  Worried I will need more nodes than I suspect to compete with the old incans and also will need to double controllers/channels to get power to them.  IE 200 nodes on 1 tree = 6 channels rgb for one element.
Sam, who is happy he flashed his etherdongle with newest firmware!

"Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."

Offline davron12

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2013, »
Yes, Ray modified the dumb strings so they are no longer burning out. I've had the new strings running for a couple weeks now and every node is still working. I was waiting a little longer to post an update to that bad nodes thread because I didn't want to jump the gun.

As far as brightness goes, converting objects from incans to dumb strings, you need a fraction of the nodes. As much as led strings look brighter than incans, the dumb strings (and smart) make the traditional led strings look dim. However, 50 lights that are way brighter than 200 incans, still looks like less lights. You don't need quite as many, but you still want it to look covered. For a 5 foot tree, I used 200 nodes with 2 controllers. 100 just didn't look like enough, but starting off that may be enough. Don't worry about brightness, just overall coverage. If you're short on channels, you can do all 200 nodes with 3 channels, just have both DSCs set to the same channels. I went with 6 so that I could do each string in a different color at times. Also, if you're wrapping these around tree limbs, you may want want to split the strings in half with a waterproof connector between each half as the strings are long. I don't do the traditional "wrap around the perimeter" approach, rather wrap the strings around individual limbs, and long strings get in the way.

Keep in mind, my perspective may be warped as I look at my 25k+ lights and it still doesn't look like that many lights to me, however I can see a glow in the sky above my house a 1/4 mile away.

Another nuisance is that everything runs off of 12vdc, which means you need power supplies nearby for everything.

Also consider what software you're going to use. You're going to spend a year per song if you stick with Vixen 2.x if you want to do anything with rgb color. I tried for a couple days and gave up. Your software has to natively support picking colors and treating all 3 channels as 1 rgb channel.

Offline kfxi

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 147
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2013, »
If you are not using Vixen,  what are you using

Ken

Offline zwiller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1740
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2013, »
Davron12, that is one great post of info!  Thanks for taking the time...   <res.

Any links to the improved nodes?  Ray has a few of these... 

We're on same page with the light comments except I don't run as many as you.  I hear ya about the power supplies.  I plan to be all 12V this year and will probably have 6 supplies scattered around my small setup.   

I use LSP and love it.  No way I could use Vixen for 5k channels.   
Sam, who is happy he flashed his etherdongle with newest firmware!

"Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."

Offline davron12

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
Re: Am a bit confused with the dumb strings :(
« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2013, »
No problem. Glad I could help. Especially glad I got that bad node problem resolved. It was driving me nuts last year.

I don't believe there are any new links for the improved nodes. I'm pretty sure Ray has replaced production of the old version with this new version. He's selling them for the same price.