Author Topic: Is lsp worth the money  (Read 5203 times)

Offline thestig

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Is lsp worth the money
« on: July 09, 2013, »
I am about to add 6000 channels of rgb and have been using lor s2 to sequence up until now. I am not wanting to spend 250 dollars if its still crashing all of the time and not consistent. Is the only issue of reliability with the scheduler? I just remember a lot of heart ache last year with the lsp guys and I can't afford to waste anytime. I have been out of the loop since November and feel like I have been left in the dust. So much to research and so little time. Ahhhh


Thanks for any input

Grant

Offline keitha43

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2013, »
They are doing major reworking of the scheduler. They are also working on the playback of the visualizer. I haven't heard of many problems with the sequencer lately except a couple of people reporting win 8 64 bit issues but other people can play their sequences with no problem so that is being investigated. I believe they start beta testing this month and hope to release a public version in August. You can go to their site and look at their quality control meeting minutes. Worth the money to me as it does RGB much better than LOR S2. I have not tried LOR S3.

Offline thestig

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2013, »
I just watched a few tutorials. Wow it is going to make my life much easier. I about cried last season with rgb... The sequencing was so slow and I couldn't get anything to look like what I had invisioned in my head. As always thanks for the help Keith.

Offline drlucas

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2013, »
I'm just starting to look at HLS as an option....I have some plans for SSC this year maybe 1600 or so nodes.  I'm very much at the beginning just trying to figure out how to get a single blinky from the pc to the etherdongle to the active hub to the LE to my single candy cane light...once I get that working, then I can get to figuring out the rest of it.
-Ryan Lucas-
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Offline keitha43

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, »
What rules out HLS for me was no easy way to convert all my old LOR S2 sequences. There is an import feature in LSP and it works pretty well. At least it did a couple of years ago when I switched as LOR S2 had no 3rd party DMX controller abitilty or RGB ability back then.

Offline thestig

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, »
that is good to know, I have all of my singing faces sequenced in lor s2 and love the idea that nothing is lost.

Offline keitha43

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, »
The only problem I had back then was with shimmers. The import didn't seem to know where to end the shimmer. Easily fixed. I suggest downloading the demo.

Offline typoagain

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2013, »
I have heard a lot of good things about LSP. A LOT of people love it.

However I bought it 2 years ago, and all the updates since. It had a few issues the first year but they have all been fixed.

But when I loaded the last update it locked up 2 different computers. I ended up taking one of them all the way back to out-of-box condition.

When I tried to get help in early November the service was quite slow, as in 7-10 days.
Personally, the drop in customer service since they were bought out was enough to make me go back to LOR. All in all, I am out several hundred dollars for LSP and have never ran a single season.
One of the new guys in Odessa TX.

Offline MazdaFan

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2013, »
I just pulled the trigger and switched from LOR S3 a couple of weeks ago.  The reason?  RGBs being added to my show.  Like you, I found programming RGB pixels to a genuine PITA. This is what I've found so far...

The Good:
The matrix animator in LSP is a real life saver if you are doing RGB signs or displays.  Its a little kludgy, but it simplifies a lot of stuff.
The visualizer is really easy to work with and is miles in front of LORs software.
It imports your LOR sequences so that you can move them to your current setup.  That means you can still use LOR S2 to do your static lights and then import them into LSP. (you'll see why in a sec)
Layers (groupings) of controllers or even channels so you can keep like types together so they are easier to work on.  Its kind of like having multiple tracks in LOR.
Transitions - These are pretty cool if you have a LOT of RGBs in your show.  They can be used on static lights as well, but tend to lose their glitter.
Video - you can import video into your show

The Bad:
Timing grids are terrible -  There is no easy way to set different grids to different timings.  If you are like me, I had a beat grid, a .1 grid, a .05 grid and a tapper grid.  You can pretty much skip that in LSP.  They have a way to make different timing marks, but its all based upon what ever base timing you use and then the beats in the music (or effects that you set)  Its a bit grimy for my taste.
The Visualizer - If you make a mistake with your RGB placements be prepared to wipe it clean and start over.  The placement is easy and the set up is easy as well, but if you misplace something while spreading it over multiple channels, it errors out when you try to select it to delete it.  Its just easier to erase it all or live with it.
The Scheduler - There seem to be a lot of problems with it...  There have been a lot of suggested work-arounds, but for the price you pay for the software, should you have to work around it?
File Size - LSPs files are HUGE in comparison to ANY other sequencing software's output.

The Ugly:
The price.  OUCH!
$50 for the 512 channel version (not really practical if you are using RGB) with 2 macro effects
$100 for the 512 channel version with 4 macro effects (see previous)
$250 for 4096 channels (one pixel net universe)
$400 for 32767 channels (top tier)

You see the upgrade for each is $50 (ok.. $49, but thats a marketing thing... might as well be $50)  BUT...  Thats to upgrade a similar tier to the most current SAME tier.  To the best of my knowledge there is no discount to go from the 512 to the 4096 channel version, so if you buy the 4096 channel version and expand beyond one Pixnet universe, you are going to blow another $400...  so plan ahead.  Word to the wise and all that rot. 

I envision adding quite a few RGBs (mega tree, all my arches, corners of my house, eves, etc).. I'm already at almost 4096 channels (leaving the first 512 for DMX) with just my RGB matrix sign and the corners of my house so I went ahead and did the pro version. 

Only you can decide whether it is worth the cost.  I plan on using both my LOR S3 and the LSP together to accomplish what I want to do.  I'll do most of the static sequencing in LOR most likely, and use the LSP for the RGB.  As I transition to more and more RGBs I'm sure that LOR will fade to the background.

As always, Your mileage may vary.

Jamie
Jamie Tomlinson
Sardinia, Indiana
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When you can keep your head when all others are losing theirs,
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Offline DonFL

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2013, »
Would definitely wait to see if the version 3 release fixes a lot of long time issues that have plagued LSP. New ownership hopefully means it got some new developer eyes on it, and some much needed rework. They seem to be doing all the right things thru far. 

I had planned to use it last year, but after 2.5 did not resolve some issues, i set it aside. I found it to be extremely machine resource intensive..that low-end machine that runs S3 without breaking a sweat does not do well with LSP.

I plan to give LSP and HLS a good look next year, assuming 3.0 puts LSP on the right track.


Offline keitha43

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, »
Actually the 250 dollar version is for 8192 channels not 4096.

Offline zwiller

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2013, »
I think it's worth it, but it has some quirks in it's current state.  If they fix all the issues with 3.0, it will be a no-brainer for rgb. 

Personally, I love the grid concept with LSP.  I think it is best to start with a beat track and then add intervals within the beat as needed. 
Sam, who is happy he flashed his etherdongle with newest firmware!

"Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."

Offline rdebolt

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2013, »
OK LSP has had it's issues. Let's be honest an ton.. However the new group is working very hard to address and fix previous issues. As a matter of fact there will be very few enhancements until all of the bugs have been addressed. The Scheduler is going through a complete rebuild, but to be honest I used the Conductor last year and will for the future so Scheduler is a moot point to me. Don't get me wrong it should work as expected especially after spending that kind of money. There is also Xlights that will drive a show very well.

I am not trying to upset anyone here, but some of the statements that are being pasted are not accurate.

Don as far as support I feel that it has improved as David would never get back to any issues that I had during the "Show" part of the year. Is it top notch, maybe not but they really are working on it. The best thing to do when you are having trouble is posting the issue on the forum. There are many people (not as many as here) that will try and help you out.

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The Good:
The matrix animator in LSP is a real life saver if you are doing RGB signs or displays.  Its a little kludgy, but it simplifies a lot of stuff.

True. The Matrix animator is GREAT, but also very tedious. Once done It can do great things

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The visualizer is really easy to work with and is miles in front of LORs software.
True

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It imports your LOR sequences so that you can move them to your current setup.  That means you can still use LOR S2 to do your static lights and then import them into LSP. (you'll see why in a sec)
True with LOR S2 but as yet cannot import LOR S3

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Layers (groupings) of controllers or even channels so you can keep like types together so they are easier to work on.  Its kind of like having multiple tracks in LOR.
True but WAY Better and easier. One of the Better things in LSP in my opinion

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Transitions - These are pretty cool if you have a LOT of RGBs in your show.  They can be used on static lights as well, but tend to lose their glitter.
True, but I find Macros to be much more powerful. LSP is designed around RGB, but you can still use it for led and incand.

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Video - you can import video into your show
That is one bad thing is LSP no longer supports video. You can use it, but not as easily as in past versions. I hope they bring it back

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The Bad:
Timing grids are terrible -  There is no easy way to set different grids to different timings.  If you are like me, I had a beat grid, a .1 grid, a .05 grid and a tapper grid.  You can pretty much skip that in LSP.  They have a way to make different timing marks, but its all based upon what ever base timing you use and then the beats in the music (or effects that you set)  Its a bit grimy for my taste.
I disagree (Kind of) Although different than LOR you can use "Timing Highlights" and "Active Mouse" to work with what ever timings that you want. My problem is that you still see all of the timing marks they are just not active. You can also make whatever timing spacing that you want from the start of the sequence or the middle.

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The Visualizer - If you make a mistake with your RGB placements be prepared to wipe it clean and start over.  The placement is easy and the set up is easy as well, but if you misplace something while spreading it over multiple channels, it errors out when you try to select it to delete it.  Its just easier to erase it all or live with it.
Although it does need to be made much easier You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

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The Scheduler - There seem to be a lot of problems with it...  There have been a lot of suggested work-arounds, but for the price you pay for the software, should you have to work around it?
True no argument at all. Going through a complete rewrite.

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File Size - LSPs files are HUGE in comparison to ANY other sequencing software's output.
True , but they are working on that as well.

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The Ugly:
The price.  OUCH!
$50 for the 512 channel version (not really practical if you are using RGB) with 2 macro effects
$100 for the 512 channel version with 4 macro effects (see previous)
$250 for 4096 channels (one pixel net universe)
$400 for 32767 channels (top tier)
True but $250 is for 8192 Channels

As I said this is not to upset anyone. LSP is very powerful and has many ways to do things. Do not expect to download and know how to use it in a week. Like I have said from day one you have to totally rethink the way that you sequence with LSP. I very rarely use a timing grid while sequencing. Is it perfect, NO far from it, but for the price (Look at Madrix) it does more than any other sequencing software out there.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, by rdebolt »

Offline DonFL

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2013, »
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Don as far as support I feel that it has improved as David would never get back to any issues that I had during the "Show" part of the year. Is it top notch, maybe not but they really are working on it. The best thing to do when you are having trouble is posting the issue on the forum. There are many people (not as many as here) that will try and help you out.

 

No disagreement here...I really do want LSP to make it, and I see Minleon doing a lot of the right things; I think they understand they have to regain the confidence of a lot of people who have tried and passed on LSP in the past.

You are spot-on regarding support and David..I had a pretty simple issue, and never even got a response to my ticket. Any support was from the members of the forum. They are a dedicated helpful group.

My understanding is David has left and has no further involvement with the project. Honestly, IMHO,  that is probably best for the future of LSP overall.

It was August when 2.5 came out, and I had to make a fast decision, and decided it wasn't worth the risk and the effort of what I would have to do to be able to confidently use it in my display.

If 3.0 makes it out this year, and all indications are it will, I can take a look at it early next year, with a little more breathing room, and decide if it makes sense for me for 2014.  It will cost me 49 dollars to get the upgrade, but I'll gladly spend the money to see if it is on the right track.

Offline zwiller

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Re: Is lsp worth the money
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2013, »
Great comments Roger, and I agree with them.  As you brought up the Conductor, I wanted to point out that I was on the recent beta and can attest that both the LSP export and the Conductor perform extremely well together.  I also agree the new QCC guys are a huge asset to LSP and that really boosts my expectations for 3.0.

Also echoing comments that LSP takes time to learn.  Designing, assembling, and sequencing 4-8k channels with rgb ain't something you can crank out easily no matter what software you're using unless you got access to Santa's elves...  139 days now. 

Stig, If you're gonna gofer it this season, I think the last 32 bit release is stable and I would jump now, learn, and get busy.  As much as David gets beat up, I do think he succeeded in designing LSP with the intent of focusing on creativity and not technical detail.  I can relate to your comments about wanting to achieve "what's in your head".  You can, once LSP clicks for you. 
Sam, who is happy he flashed his etherdongle with newest firmware!

"Now, I had heard that word at least ten times a day from my old man. He worked in profanity the way other artists might work in oils or clay. It was his true medium; a master."