Voltage drop, bad cables - mystery partly solved!

[drlucas]

I'm at my wits end....and need some help.

I've replaced now my pigtails with some other connectors and won't have to worry about those shorting/corroding anymore, but I continue to either have the worst luck with nodes from some used strings I bought on here OR I have voltage issues. I'm struggling with about 450 or so 12mm nodes that are connected down to some pvc up on the roof. I've had at least 5 nodes go bad and even tonight I appear to have more. I'm near giving in to the idea of keeping my roof outlined and moving just to the eaves which will still look nice, but really wanted that roof outlined too.

What is the best way to see if voltage drop is my issue? Is it to take a meter and put it at the output of the last node in the string (there are 100-110 nodes in my lengths) and the reading should be close to 12? Should I inject from the other end another 12v? My power supply is outside in a marine box and two of the network runs are maybe 25' at the longest the other two are 25'

I'm going batty...which is a good thing for October right? but not for my first year of lights! this latest obsession of mine is quickly turning sour given the time I've put into this...hoping in the next 2-3 weeks I can sort it all out. Biggest issue is it's dark when I get home from work (6:30)so I'm limited to just weekends now working on this.

Any guidance in tackling this next step is appreciated.

OH - and it's smart string controllers and active hub that i'm working with...

[tbone321]

Did you burn these nodes in?  Unless the nodes at the end of the string are the ones giving you the problems, it is unlikely to be a voltage issue or at least not a voltage drop issue. 

[drlucas]

Middle of the string is where they are dying on me...not near the end. So sounds like that voltage drop is out of the question.

I've run them for a few hours just doing mixed colors in xlights, but haven't done anything special to burn them in. is there a technique/process to do such a thing?

The strings are about 6 months old..got them here when a member move over to flexstrips.

[tbone321]

There is nothing complicated about buning them in.  You can either use the test firmware for the SSC or the X-Lights test sequence and just let them run for 24 hours or so cycling thru all of the colors or even hold them on white. 

[zwiller]

Standard protocol for a burn in would be to use a SSC with test firmware on it and run for several hours but what you did is good.  The location where they are out is odd and I agree that it rules out voltage drop. 

I would try a SSC with test firmware on the string and see if the bad nodes light and use the SSC from the bad strand on another string.  This should narrow it down quick.  If the test goes well then I would check software side of things.   

Anymore I think bad nodes are pretty rare as I am sure Ray is testing before shipping since he is a reseller and not manufacturer.  I would be exceptionally surprised if ran them successfully for hours and then nodes just quit not long after install.   

Hang in there, a few of us almost threw in towels last year, but smart string is high risk, high reward.  Also, you are light years ahead of me for this year! 

[drlucas]

Thanks all for the encouraging words!!

Ray has sent some spare nodes my way too...he's top notch.

.....i'll move the SSCs around and see how goes the issue. I might also make a 4core pig tail with some 4 core wire I have..just need to make a rj45 connector to 4 core wire at the hub end....im (so far) only having issues with the 4 SSCs up on the roof. I'll do a visual inspection of all the cables between nodes too just to be sure I haven't crimped anything. the nodes are mounted on pvc with zip ties around each node and I tried extra hard to not get any wires stuck between the nodes and the pvc.

[keitha43]

Have you had any rain? Since some of your nodes are used maybe they were the older ip66 rated ones that were bad in the rain. You can tell on full white they wont be as bright a white as the ip68 nodes. When water is in them they will often glow between songs when they should be off and will turn on other nodes further down the string or make them the wrong color.

[drlucas]

....while they appear to have silicon injected in the bottom of them...the nodes do appear to be a slightly different (maybe just faded a bit?)  vs the new ip68 nodes that I ordered from Ray directly.....and YUP, lots of rain. I haven't turned on the lights during a rain storm, but I have turned them on the next day after rain....mind you the active hub has been powered on during the rain...

if that's the case, then I'll be struggling with these for a LONG time and likely best to pull them off the roof now and find a different use for them. Unless ray will replace them (or give me a 50% off type deal)...unlikely I suppose.

[caretaker]

I bought some of the Original nodes from Ray that suffered from water getting into the nodes so bad the first year I ended up taking them down because of the amount of bad nodes I was getting. The next year before I put them up I used Rustoleum Clear flexible sealer and it worked wonders for me I only had two nodes with water problems all last winter.

[drlucas]

thanks for the tip...when/if I can get the bad nodes sorted out this weekend  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login looks like rain so I might not be able too.....i'll go light by light and put a dab of clear silicon at the end of each node and see if that magically resolves the issue. hoping it does.

[keitha43]

The old ip66 in all white mode looked like warm white. The ip68 looks like bright white. Once water got inside some would start working correctly after a few days and some never did. I think I had around 60 go bad my first season. Back then Ray agreed to replace all my nodes with the newly created ip68 nodes If I paid shipping back to china for the bad nodes which was like 350.00 but to me it was worth it. We had been in a drought until the Christmas season and it rained 2-3 times a week. I was on a ladder replacing nodes every night. I even had 1 node catch fire and another strand melt in two. When trying to fix always try either the first node you see a problem with or the one prior to it. (the output of the prior node could cause the problem). This could cause other nodes to misbehave farther down the string but they actually could be okay once the defective node is replaced.

[drlucas]

This has been my experience with the first few "bad" nodes I've dealt with so far - the one prior has been my source of issues

When trying to fix always try either the first node you see a problem with or the one prior to it. (the output of the prior node could cause the problem

As for the shipping costs back to Ray...wow. I know that getting them from China is in the $45 range from DHL (at least that's been my high water mark for costs so far). I never knew shipping them back would be that much. I'll see what happens when I get some spares from Ray next week, get up on the roof with some silicon in hand and try to enhance the waterproofing.

For me it's just 4 strands i'm struggling with but water will be an issue as November/December are always mixed precipitation...snow/rain/sleet....so if the costs are going to be that high and the problem is already resolved then I don't believe that people will be much better off from anything Ray may learn trying to figure out the root cause of this problem. Looks like you guys have been the pioneers. For that the DLA world thanks you ....your $350 was not spent in vain.

my next steps will be waterproof, fix bad nodes, order new nodes for next season.

will report back in a week or two (hopefully with some pictures / videos) of the roof light up!!

[zwiller]

Sounds like a good plan, but I would still check with some test firmware to rule programming out.  I once spliced a few "bad" nodes only to have the same nodes act up.  Later found out it was a mix up of programmed start and output channels.  If all 4 strands acting same way I would be very suspicious...

[drlucas]

OK - after repairing 3 bad nodes and one bad pigtail, I'm back with a lit up roof.

Now, I'm having some counting problems.

I have pixelnet universe #2 selected
I have 4 SSCs

Roof 1 SSC - 100 nodes - channel 5701 (forward)
Roof 2 SSC - 113 nodes - channel 6002 (forward)
Roof 3 SSC - 105 nodes - channel 6342 (backwards)
Roof 4 SSC - 117 nodes - channel 6658 (backwards)

Seems like for whatever reason if in xlights I pick channel 5701 the 3rd node lights up instead of the first one. However if I pick channels 5698 and 5695 the first two nodes come on. I really have NO idea why the heck this is happening. Is my math/logic wrong here?

the reason why ssc #3 and 4 are backwards is because of the way I built the pvc/nodes in the garage and moved them to the roof. ended up not completely going in a nice circle around the roof.

Any thoughts on my math here?

At least i'm partly back in working order....

[zwiller]

Try programming the start channel for ssc of roof 1 as 1605 (5701-4096) roof 2 as 1906 (6002-4096) etc.  Rinse, lather, and repeat.  The utility programs one universe only.  From memory when I programmed beyond 1 universe I had issues similar as yours. 

Backward/forwad does not matter.  I built my stuff the same way.  As long as it's programmed correctly you're fine.