xml problem

[jnealand]

I have over 40 models in my nutcracker setup.  To display all those elements in one window is unworkable so I try pick from 1 to 8 models at a time to work on.  I have discovered that when I click on save the xml is only saved for the current models that I have displayed.  I could not figure out why I was not able to go back and tweak my xml since if I did my pixel tree and saved it, then did my windows and saved it, then went back to the pixel tree, my settings were all gone.  I finally looked at the xml in notepad ++ and find that the only thing saved in the xml is the last elements that were displayed.  That to me is a big time barrier to sharing any sequences since I will never have any complete xml although the xseq will be just fine.  We need to have all models saved in the xml and have the ability to hide or show elements in the nutcracker window.  I have learned to create a lot of model types and just went back in and added a couple of basically static items like a nativity, an inflateable, and a Merry Christmas sign.  If I go back and turn them on using nutcracker I lose all my prior xml because the only models saved will be those 3 elements.  This is really discouraging when you have a lot of models and have to spend have your time scrolling back and forth to get to the elements you really want and need to tweak.  It is also discouraging to discover this after spending many hours creating effects that work great but could use some tweaking, but now have to be recreated.     

[jnealand]

I went back and counted - there are 57 models in my RGB effects file.  and I have not even added my 16 snowflakes on the roof or the 16 candy canes that will line the driveway.

[Steve Gase]

A quick experiment shows that you can change the order of the elements in the xml file.  BUT YOU ALSO NEED TO CHANGE THE ORDER of the matching elements in each timing mark.

It is also possible to join xml files by merging the timing make elements.

With a big list of models, and a big list of timing marks this is very awkward and not something you'd want to do manually.  So, a tool could make this much more manageable.

I think working on such a tool would be provide value -- but it would make much more sense to incorporate the functionality into nutcracker itself.  no doubt the development team will address this need, eventually.

[jnealand]

I don't need to change the order as much as I would like to have them all saved all the time but be able to display in the nutcracker window only the ones that I am working on.  That is the original assumption I made when I started, that it worked like excel in that I could hide columns, but they were still there in the underlying file.  Now I find out that they are not there at all and having the xml file saved and even backed up is worthless, at least to me.

[dduck]

I was thinking all that needed to be done is add a horizontal scrollbar.   

[smeighan]

I don't need to change the order as much as I would like to have them all saved all the time but be able to display in the nutcracker window only the ones that I am working on.  That is the original assumption I made when I started, that it worked like excel in that I could hide columns, but they were still there in the underlying file.  Now I find out that they are not there at all and having the xml file saved and even backed up is worthless, at least to me.

this is planned for next year.

my solution? I am making smaller models. i have 2 windows, 6 eaves. I now model them as one model. It means my windows will do the same thing as the eaves but for ease of sequencing this year i went from 8 models to 1.

[frankr]

You can resize the columns now.  Not a perfect solution but a simple workaround...

[Steve Gase]

my solution? I am making smaller models. i have 2 windows, 6 eaves. I now model them as one model. It means my windows will do the same thing as the eaves but for ease of sequencing this year i went from 8 models to 1.

I've taken the other tact...  I place pixels within multiple models.  I use custom on coroflakes for the fire, and butterfly and other matrix effects... 9 separate models for the 9 flakes.  The same coroflakes are described as a arch model with each arm treated as a separate arch (9 flakes become 45 arches of 10 pixels)... and I also use them as another arch model -- 9 arches of 50 pixels.  I've done similar with megatrees -- using it in different models.

[jnealand]

Just so other folks reading this understand.  The xseq file does accumulate all the effects, it is only the xml file that does not.  So when you here someone say that all you need to do is to share your xml you need to understand that the xml only contains the models that you last selected to show up in nutcracker.  My assumption was that since I had the option to select which models showed up that all the xml was still saved and only the models in the window would be updated.  That does not happen.  The xml file is never updated, it is only created new whenever you click save and it only will contain the models that are showing in the nutcracker window.  I will live with this now that I understand the constraints, but I now know that once I finish an element and move to another element bu selecting and unselecting models in the display models box, that I will no longer be able to go back and modify my xml since it will be gone.  No do overs or tweaking unless you always select all models for display in the nutcracker window which becomes very unwieldy in order to be able to do some things in the current version of nutcracker.

[tindivall]

I figured everyone else was chiming in and I was sitting back eating my  and enjoying.. but now I want to throw in my 2 cents...


I am not at 40+ models yet... currently only 35... but what I do is open the models based off the group I am working with...  so for example when starting a new file/song... I add in my arches as the display elements...   After I finished that, I go back and add in my eaves, etc.....   sliding the horizontal slider over as I work.... this way I don't have 35 all at once.

[mitch09]

I am not at 40+ models yet... currently only 35... but what I do is open the models based off the group I am working with...  so for example when starting a new file/song... I add in my arches as the display elements...   After I finished that, I go back and add in my eaves, etc.....   sliding the horizontal slider over as I work.... this way I don't have 35 all at once.

This is exactly what I do. I have only 16 RGB elements but find this way works for me. I add my arches and sequence them for the entire song, then add my house and shrink the arch columns to a minimum so that I only have useable(visible) columns of time,label,and current element. I use my label column every time so that I know what element columns should be wide enough to view.
Thus, when I am on my last element I can look at the label column and either shrink or expand the width of any other column I want to tweak.
From then on I always display all elements. 

[jnealand]

I am doing each element category independently as well, the difference is that I did not put them all in the window at once.  Too late to do anything about that for the songs that are finished now.  I understand the slider issue, I was trying to warn other people who have been doing it my prior way.  I will change to all models displayed in the window for future songs, but if I add my snowflakes and candy canes I will have 89 models.  That is a lot of sliding and a lot of models to work on.  I have been trying to keep my timing marks to be less than 15, sometimes less than 10.  Live and learn.  I'm not complaining about nutcracker functionality, just trying to warn others and make a case for future changes to make it easier to use.  Without nutcracker I would have far less RGB elements, but I'm learning how to use it for DMX stuff as well and it works great.

[smeighan]

I am doing each element category independently as well, the difference is that I did not put them all in the window at once.  Too late to do anything about that for the songs that are finished now.  I understand the slider issue, I was trying to warn other people who have been doing it my prior way.  I will change to all models displayed in the window for future songs, but if I add my snowflakes and candy canes I will have 89 models.  That is a lot of sliding and a lot of models to work on.  I have been trying to keep my timing marks to be less than 15, sometimes less than 10.  Live and learn.  I'm not complaining about nutcracker functionality, just trying to warn others and make a case for future changes to make it easier to use.  Without nutcracker I would have far less RGB elements, but I'm learning how to use it for DMX stuff as well and it works great.

sorry jim for the misuderstanding. i have always said what is in the grid is what gets saved. i understand that you thought you could remove a model and later click it back in and it would remember the effects. that is not how it works, as you found out.

when you press save all models in the grid are written to the xml file. i , for example, have 120 models. this is because i load up peoples models when they are having issues. i do not want all those models in my songs. only the models in grid are written to the xml.

next year we will redesign the grid so you collapse columns (7 minitrees are now one column), we may do an even larger change to the grid. this is really the first year anyone has used xlights for their shows with nutcracker. we have learned what works and what doesnt.

i agree 50 models is too unweildy to work with. we are toying with making the grid with time going horizontal (liek vixen,lsp,lor). we will experiment and try to improve the ui.

thanks
sean