Author Topic: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps  (Read 2666 times)

Offline Iced

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SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« on: December 29, 2013, »
I have 16 SSR4's (8 built) but they aren't going to work for my scenario so I have been trying to find some hockey puck style SSRs to handle higher amp loads for the 45 strings of C9's that draw in the range of 2-6 Amps.  I have the Lynx Freestyle controller and work with a 120v system.

Now I realize that some will immediately ask "why C9's?" but I would prefer this not become a debate/discussion as to why this is if we can help it  ;)  So I have 3 questions I hope you can help with!

From what You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login it looks like I need to find some proportional control SSRs (ie. not zero-crossing, nor random-crossing).  Is this a correct statement?

From what I tested from the Lynx Freestyle, it looks like a 0-5v DC output from the Freestyle to the SSR4 should be proportional to the 0-120v AC output from 1 of the the SSR4 channels (although when testing, I did observe a ~6v AC minimum and not 0v).  Is this also a correct statement?

Based on the 2 statements above, does this mean I am looking for SSRs like You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login?  Specifically, one of the Part Numbers beginning with 5L?  edit: I guess these won't work because the line voltage range is 20-300v AC.  I guess I need to find something in the 0-120v...
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, by Iced »

Offline tbone321

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2013, »
If you want to power C9 strings, then you really need to use sme LE's.  The SSR4 is really not up to that level of load.  The Freestyle is actually a controlled zero-crossing controller and connecting a proportional control SSR to it will not work because the Freestyle does not send a variable voltage to the SSR4.  It sends a trigger pulse to the SSR4 channel at a specific point in the AC half cycle depending on the dim level you set it too. 
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Offline taybrynn

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2013, »
+1 go with the LE
Scott - Castle Rock, Colorado   [ 2 homes, 100% RGB in 2016; since 2008; over 32k channels of E1.31 ]
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Offline Iced

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2014, »
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If you want to power C9 strings, then you really need to use sme LE's.  The SSR4 is really not up to that level of load.  The Freestyle is actually a controlled zero-crossing controller and connecting a proportional control SSR to it will not work because the Freestyle does not send a variable voltage to the SSR4.  It sends a trigger pulse to the SSR4 channel at a specific point in the AC half cycle depending on the dim level you set it too.

Thanks for this explanation tbone321.  I had to do a bit of further reading to figure out what it meant as this is not my area of expertise nor area of regular practice.  Alas, I'm still having a hard time understanding the concept.  (I'd appreciate more details if you could point me to more information if you have time).

Ultimately, I ended up deciding I will just break up the C9 strings resulting in more channels but less of a amperage draw per channel.

Offline tbone321

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2014, »
Sure, you just need to let me know what you need the details on.  As for the controllers, your best bet would be to pick up 3 LE's.  This would give you 48 channels that should be able to handle the current load that your choice of lighting requires.  You could always sell the Freestyle and SSR4's to offset the cost.
If at first you don't succeed,
your not cut out for sky diving

Offline tpctech

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, »
I have built some 4 channel high power output boxes controlled by a freestyle.  I used 2 dual 20amp non zero cross power cubes in each box.  built them using 2 deep standard 4" sq electrical boxes back to back. The front of one has a standard double duplex cover plate with 2 duplex split wired for 4 circuits.  on 2 sides of the other box I mounted the dual power cubes.  on the end of this box I mounted a rj45 connector the other end has a cable clamp with the 14-3 power cord.  then I used a standard 4" sq cover to cover that box.  The box becomes the heatsink I place the whole thing a small plastic Rubbermaid with cover with a small slot for the wires to exit.  all of the parts were purchased as Lowes except for the power cubes that I got on-line surplus somewhere!!!

KEN 

Offline taybrynn

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, »
+1 go with LE controllers
Scott - Castle Rock, Colorado   [ 2 homes, 100% RGB in 2016; since 2008; over 32k channels of E1.31 ]
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Offline Iced

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, »
Thanks for the great suggestions and recommendations, guys.  However, after much consideration, I don't want to go with the LE and have instead decided to break up the strings into smaller lengths and add another FS with more SSR4's giving me more flexibility in what can be done with the lights.  Each new string will easily be under 2A.  With an LE, I would have to build or buy 4 of them to support the current configuration.

tpctech, I'd love to hear more about what you've done.  I also built a 2-gang standard electrical box (with an extension) to fit in the SSR4 + 2 electrical sockets for a prototype- worked well.  I'm more interested in the details of the "power cubes"!

tbone321, I'm having a hard time understanding what you mean by "It sends a trigger pulse to the SSR4 channel at a specific point in the AC half cycle depending on the dim level you set it too."?  Can u explain a little differently?

Thanks Guys!

Offline n1ist

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, »
Triacs like the ones used in the SSR4 (and most phase-cut dimmers) can be turned on with a voltage on the gate, but only can be turned off when the voltage across them goes to 0.  Fortunately for us, the AC line voltage goes to 0 twice in each cycle (once when the voltage is rising towards the positive peak, and once when it is falling towards the negative peak).  By timing when we turn on the triac each cycle, we can control the output voltage.  For example, if we turn it on at the beginning of each half cycle and let it turn itself off at the end of each half cycle, the light will be on all the time.  If however we don't turn it on until half way through each half cycle, the light will be on half the time.  It won't be at half brightness, due to the way the bulbs and eye work, but it will be dimmer.  Our dimmers allow 256 different steps from full on to full off.

/mike

Offline rm357

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SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2014, »
Lookup dimmer on Wikipedia. We use leading edge thyristor dimming.

The attached picture is from the Wikipedia page.

This discussion is getting more technical than the admins like for this forum...

You will also need to look up RMS Voltage. It's not intuitive. For irregular waveforms, it's kind of like an average voltage.


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« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, by rm357 »
Robert
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Offline Iced

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2014, »
Thanks Guys, you've been very helpful.  I'll refrain from asking more questions here.

rm357, is this discussion better suited elsewhere than the "Lynx SSR4" board?  or do you mean the DIYLA forum in general?


Offline n1ist

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2014, »
RJ wants DIYLA to be a non-technical forum so members without technical experience or interest don't get lost or driven away.  DIYC is more suited to technical discussions.
/mike

Offline Iced

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2014, »
np, thx n1ist


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Offline Iced

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Re: SSR4 Alternative for Higher Amps
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2014, »
To close this, I decided to do some splicing and will cut up the C9 strings into lengths with 33 bulbs at most putting a heat sink on each SSR4


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