Author Topic: MR16 Output Voltage Question  (Read 3359 times)

Offline monkey141

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MR16 Output Voltage Question
« on: September 17, 2010, »
Good Morning All,

I appologize now if this information is somewhere else. I believe I read through most of the manuals on the wiki, and did not find the information I was looking for, so I figured I would ask.

I have some dc controlled devices requiring 5 volts and some requiring 12 volts. I understand from all of my reading on these boards that the output voltage can be varied up to 24V. My question is, how is this acheived? Changing out the 12V input power supply for a 5V input supply or is there another way? Then my next question is (and I assumme the answer is no if the way to change the votlage is by varying the input voltage) can I control the 5V devices and the 12V devices from one controller or do they need to be separate controllers.

Thanks,
Mike
Mike
Fair Lawn, NJ

Offline rrowan

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2010, »
Hi Mike,

If the input voltage is 12vdc
Example:
 If Channel 1 is set to 100% then the output voltage is 12v
 If Channel 1 is set to 50% then the output voltage is 6v

You can adjust the output voltage up to to the max input voltage and adjust it down to 0volts by "dimming" the channel. Of course each channel can be adjusted as needed. Just be careful once you set the voltage needed that you don't change it and damage the device. Also depending on the device you might need a snubber circuit between the mr-16 and the device.

To figure how out what dimming you need per channel you will need a voltmeter to see what voltage is.

hope that helps

Rick R.
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Offline monkey141

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2010, »
Rick,

Thanks for the reply. Surprisingly, I think it all makes sense. If I have a 5v device, I keep the power to that channel 40% (roughly) or below, making my dimmable range 0-40%. If it is a 12v device, I can keep it at 100% giving me a full range to dim. In addition, I can put a snubber in to make sure I don't damage the device by snubbing the excess voltage (>5v in my case).

Thanks for the help.

Mike
Mike
Fair Lawn, NJ

Offline budude

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2010, »
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Hi Mike,

If the input voltage is 12vdc
Example:
 If Channel 1 is set to 100% then the output voltage is 12v
 If Channel 1 is set to 50% then the output voltage is 6v

You can adjust the output voltage up to to the max input voltage and adjust it down to 0volts by "dimming" the channel. Of course each channel can be adjusted as needed. Just be careful once you set the voltage needed that you don't change it and damage the device. Also depending on the device you might need a snubber circuit between the mr-16 and the device.

To figure how out what dimming you need per channel you will need a voltmeter to see what voltage is.

hope that helps

Rick R.

Are you sure about that? Most DC controllers use PWM to turn on/off the output and the resultant duty-cycle dims the lights. The voltage is always constant however - so if you input 12v, you would still get 12v out to the device but the duty cycle would swing between 0 and 100% to create the dimming effect.

Offline austindave

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2010, »
Yeah... Following up on Rick's comments - changing the dimming to drop the voltage could work, but isn't a good idea. First, I do believe the MR16 is PWM - and the PWM is actually on the negative side (not that this necessarily makes a difference). But I believe you'll see 12 volts across the device around 50% of the time. If you put a large capacitor across the leads to your 5v load, everything might be okay.

But what happens if somehow, you ran a bad sequence into the MR16 - one that gave you 100% on this output? Poof. All the magic smoke will pour out of your 5v parts. A simple mistake could be catastrophic. That's really something we don't want to see!

And I'm not sure that you can really run the MR16 with 5v in - since it has a 5v regulator to drive its internal electronics, it probably needs a minimum of 6 or 7 volts in.

But you could probably run it at 6v, and depending on what your 5v devices are, you might be able to drive them to 6 volts without problem. And by adding a resistor or a power diode in series with your 5v devices (to drop the voltage a bit) you could certainly expect them to work when the MR16 is supplied with 6v.

But there's not really a good way to run both 12v and 5v devices from a single MR16. So, I'd recommend using two separate MR16's - one running at 6v and one at 12.

Another possibility, though, is that if you have two of the same 5v devices that you want to work in tandem (i.e. at the same time), you could connect them in series across one of the 12v MR16 outputs. When 2 of the 5v things are connected in series, each will see only half the total voltage - so at 12volts, each will only get 6 volts. Maybe that's within tolerance for the loads - but again, you could add a series resistor or a couple of power diodes to drop the excess voltage.  (Note, if you're going to try this - these DO have to be pretty much the same 5v things - if one draws a lot more current than the other, that "halving the voltage" thing goes out the window).

Hope this helps.

--Dave
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, by austindave »
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Offline budude

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2010, »
Sorry but that is not correct - the device will see either 12v OR 0v and disregarding the voltage swing time, nothing else. If you have 50mS intervals for instance and have a 50% setting for that box, it will be 0v for 25mS and 12v for 25mS - possibly more than enough to let all the smoke out of your device. Pretty much all of the DC controllers switch the -DC side and the +DC is common but that does not affect the voltage seen at the outputs - there will still be a 12v potential.

I do not know if the MR16 controls 5v - that is probably in the Wiki somewhere. You might get away with driving a 5v regulator on the outputs to your device but the regulator may not like having a PWM input so it may not produce a very solid 5v output. I do concur that if it supports 6v, you could put a large diode or two in the path to drop the voltage out to your devices expecting 5v.

Offline D56VillageNut

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2010, »
RJ posted this thread regarding the changes to the v2 MR 16. 

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It is not limited to only 12 volt input.  As stated in RJs post it can run on 7 to 24 volts.  I'd go with the original designers take on this.

I have a lot of 5v devices in my display and I had a lot of the same questions.  In short the best way to use the MR16 is to have all the devices that are being controlled use the same voltage (7 to 24v) as the input power supply.  In my case I found it better to control my 5v devices with a DC SSR running off of my Freestyle controller.  To be clear RJ does not have a DC SSR design but they are out there in some of the other forums.  I think it has been suggested or asked if he may come up with a DC SSR design but I don't know his thoughts on that.

I have some of this v2 board but I will be building them as low current constant current controllers to run LEDs.

Just another opinion.

Alan T


Offline tpctech

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2010, »
Being the MR16 board controls the the ground or the - side of the light.  You could control a 5v device by referencing the 5v lights to an external + 5v supply as long as the - side of the external power supply is tied to the - side of the input to the MR16 board.

KEN   

Offline budude

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2010, »
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Being the MR16 board controls the the ground or the - side of the light.  You could control a 5v device by referencing the 5v lights to an external + 5v supply as long as the - side of the external power supply is tied to the - side of the input to the MR16 board.

KEN   

Possibly - but you would still require a 7-24v to the MR16 to power the board itself (PIC, osc, etc). I think you are suggesting using a normal 24v supply to the MR16 and then connecting an additional 5v supply ground/common to the 24v ground/common connector on the MR16. This way you could have both 5v and 24v on the same MR16. That might work - just be sure you don't mix up which connectors you are using!   or...<md..

Offline RJ

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2010, »
I sent him a pm a few days ago explianing to him that exact point. You can use seperate supplys for a device and only use the ground since this is what is switched.

You still must provide 7 - 24v to the board to operate.

RJ
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Offline monkey141

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Re: MR16 Output Voltage Question
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2010, »
All,

I really appreciate the ideas and input.

I am planning out as much as I can right now.

Thanks,
Mike
Mike
Fair Lawn, NJ