Author Topic: New Software  (Read 13786 times)

Offline csf

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Re: New Software
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, »
This is the PM I sent to  frankr the other day I think it will help every one get a better idea of what I have in mind.

Basically my idea would eliminate the need to have one row on a grid for each channel in your light show.

The first part would be channel groups. If you wanted to use the sequencer traditional to control each item 1 by 1 then you can just make each group one channel. But now if you want to take advantage of groups you can put multiple channels in one group. Also channels can belong to more then one group.

Now for my show this year I have 80 channels, 30 of them give me control of 10 groups of RGB LED rainbow floods / spots. I also have 6 AC channels of red mines, 6 AC channels of green mines, 6 AC channels of color mines and 11 AC channels of white mines. The rest of the channels are more individually controlled so not much of a point in writing out what they control.

So right now if I want to use all the green lights I need to turn on 16 channels, if I want all red I need to turn on 16 channels, if I want all white I need to turn on 42 channels.  

If I brake this in to groups then I would only need to turn on one group to turn on 42 channels of lights.

Also then next year when I plan to add more of these items to my display with red, green, color, and whit mines, I won't need to re do the whole sequence all I would need to do is add the new channels to the correct groups.

(now think of some thing like a smart string where to be all red may need to turn on 128 channels, or to be all white need 384 channels to be turned on)

Now back to the sequencer the rows of a sequencer would now work more as layers then as channels, unless you want them to be channels. Just select the group from a group window and click on the cells you want them to be added to.

I figure I could sequence my whole show in probably 6 layers (6 rows using this methods.

Now where things really can get powerful is by adding in effects. Effects can be made using some type of scripting language, xlights already has a scripting language, and we can eventually make a gui for making scripts for none tech users.

Effects are then applied to a group of channels.

Such as turn on the first channel in a group and then go down the line turning the next channel on and the previous one off.

Now to make effects really power full they will also take information from the time line it to account.

Such as a fade on the time line will automatically fad the effect of a group.


Also we can have smart effects, which will work similar to effects but have keys on a time line.

In my display they will be times where the lights will keep switching between, red, green, colored, and white.

Now I could make an effect that switches from one color group to another. And every place in the grid that has that effect live the effect will be up in one color, turn it off, turn it back on and the next color will be up.

If we really want to be creative we can use these smart effects to add some randomness to the display.  So that each show will be a bit different. Like in the case of my show it really does not matter, what color (red, green, color, or white) is used, and which flashes next, as long as it's a different color then the color perviously on.

This would definitely make our displays have more of a re watch vale since it's never exactly the same. It would also add the the value of seeing the display live since,  chancres are you wont be uploading a video or each version of the show to the web.

You can kind of think of it as a concert. The main show is the same each time, but each location its slightly different, which makes it unique.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, by csf »

Offline castortiu

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Re: New Software
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2010, »

Offline ptone

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Re: New Software
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2010, »
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Offline castortiu

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Re: New Software
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2010, »

Offline RJ

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Re: New Software
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2010, »
Guys it is not about who is making the right choices. It's about everyone making stuff their way. The users are always the people that decide what is popular in the end.

I do not want all three of you working on three programs all the same. Make it your program to the goals and specs you have in mind. Let the others do the same. In the end the users have lots of choice and they are happy and some will use one and some will use another etc.

It nevers bothers me to see someone use hardware other than mine. As long as you do it your way and it is useful to you. The other people that do use it will be the icing on the cake. You will get a great satasifaction from seeing them use it and enjoy it.

I think all have promise. If I had not been so busy getting a show together and helping users get Aether working in a hurry I would have by now setup the other two with forum areas.

It occured to me reading this thread that members may see three people working on Software but only one with an area. This is not to be taking as anything, Prancer was worked on first and so I had got an area setup. The other two I just had not got with them to see if they wanted one and what to call it.

That is being rectified.

RJ

Innovation beats imitation - and it's more satisfying

Offline csf

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Re: New Software
« Reply #20 on: November 26, 2010, »
Guys I never starting posting my ideas here to step on any one in any way.

I hope we can all peacefully coexist here, otherwise let me know and I will develop else where, I do have a few web sites of my own, or if the idea of new free software is what's bothering people, I can just keep the software to my self. Time permitting I will at least be making this program for my own personal use for next year, wether other people want me to releases it or use it that's up to the rest of you. Last thing I want to do is release a peace of free software that causes a split in the lighting community.

At the end of the day were all taking different approaches to sequencers.

castortiu - from what I understand Prancer will completely free the user from the gridv (there will be no grid at all), and be all Item based. It will also be set up so that that any one can pick it up and start using it.

ptone - hour ideas is scripted based and will be more for tech people and musicians.

My idea is a modern take on a grid based sequencer.

Maybe I am missing something, and if I am please let me know what it is, but I can't seam to figure out how any of our projects are steeping on each others projects.

Offline rrowan

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Re: New Software
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2010, »
Hi Csf,

IMHO

Please develop the program you want, no one has the right to say otherwise

Hopefully you and the other programmers develop the best program each can and let the users decide if they want to use it or not. Each program should state the intended level of user to use the program. ie: Easy, some scripting, heavy scripting, etc

Personally I love to see each and everyone's program here on DLA.

I think a lot of people who are normally nice and friendly are just stressed out.

Cheers

Rick R.
Light Animation Hobby - Having fun and Learning at the same time. (21st member of DLA)
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Offline RJ

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Re: New Software
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2010, »
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Guys I never starting posting my ideas here to step on any one in any way.
I hope we can all peacefully coexist here,


I thought that was what I was saying ? Maybe I did not come out well but I meant there is room for it all.

Quote
if the idea of new free software is what's bothering people


I did not know or see people bothered by it, the only people I see saying anything is the three that are developing and we all know you each will think yours is the best or you would not make it the way you plan to.

RJ
 
Innovation beats imitation - and it's more satisfying

Offline ptone

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Re: New Software
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2010, »
Just to be clear - I think more the merrier.  I've learned what I have from diverse communities that share what they know and enjoy a bit of friendly challenge.  I'm sorry if I come across a little bombastic at times, but I think what interests are shared by people working on new stuff is greater than that which is different.

Cas - I applaud you working on something anyone can use.  Quite honestly the main reason I'm not, is that it is 10+ times more work than what I'm doing.

I think we should all of course keep on keeping on, and continue to share ideas and progress.  When and where possible, we should collaborate on standards of interop.  For example, should there be some new format other than vixen?  For me I'm thinking of the signaling layer - which contains basic timing events and objects, but not full channel output.

RE RJ's comment about making it the best.  Reminds me of a comment made by a friend who was a world class kayaker and kayak designer.  I asked him once if he thought his designs were the best.  He said - of course, If I didn't think they were the best, I would design them differently.  He knew that not everyone would agree, but it was his passion and focus to his own ideals (sometimes quite counter to the industry) that led to the quality of his designs.

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Offline csf

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Re: New Software
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2010, »
RJ you have been very supportive to all of us and I appreciate it.

I was referring mostly to the post by castortiu. I can only imagine the work he has put in to Prancer and I am in no way trying to take away from his accomplishments. At the same time though I felt like his post was somewhat against the idea of other new software.

I have scene it go bad before in communities when someone is developing a software and then another programer comes in and has a different idea for a similar program, and next thing you know there is a split in the community. It happened in an open source game I was working on at one time. I was working with the original main programer of an open source game for a while, mostly testing, importing objects, making custom xml files for the game objects, creating GUI XML files, and trying get it to compile (the list of libraries were rather long and at the time I had made more progress then any one else on getting the code to compile) . Then all of a sudden a new programer came on the scene, at this point the original game  was over two years in development and had a very strong code base (it was a completely custom game engine). This new programer started showing all these  pretty screen shots. I will say the screen shots were nice, but the fundamental code that we already had laid out was not there, it was mostly all eye candy he was showing. Well the rest of the community started baking the new coder, and well the community split quit badly. Now it's been over a year and nether version game has made much progress at all. Truthfully that is the last thing I want to see happen here. Maybe that experience has just left me with a sour taste in my mouth since I spent all most four years involved in the effort see it fall apart.

Sorry for any miscommunication. Just being the newest person here I rather bow out now if it was going to be an issue for the community.

Personally I too feel the more the merrier, and that was the whole reason I started developing the ideas for this program, at the end of the day each user has there own things there looking for in a program, and the more programs they can pick from the better the chancres are they will find one that meats there needs.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, by csf »

Offline castortiu

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Re: New Software
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2010, »

Offline ptone

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Re: New Software
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2010, »
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, by ptone »
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Offline csf

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Re: New Software
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2010, »
« Last Edit: November 27, 2010, by csf »

Offline rrowan

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Re: New Software
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2010, »
Hi Guys,

Just for the record. I use Windows, MAC, Linux (in no particularr order)

I have some programming background (mostly a hobby). Been using a computer since 1984.

I don't get into this OS is better than that OS. I see pros and cons to each and just use the best tool for the job.

To be honest, If I could use Linux Init 3 to run a sequence I would be thrilled (very little overhead). To program the sequence I would more like to see what its doing but a mix of gui and programming would good. My problem is I have no music background.

But then again I don't see myself as the average user.

Sorry for my rant

Cheers

Rick R.
Light Animation Hobby - Having fun and Learning at the same time. (21st member of DLA)
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Offline tconley

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Re: New Software
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2010, »
Do you have instructions for loading xlights on linux.  I am running Ubuntu and i would love to not have to swap out hard drives to windows just to run my show.
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