Author Topic: Problem  (Read 17607 times)

Offline RJ

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Re: Problem
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2010, »
No one would have said anything about it being in the instructions if you had not.  Were not "That" kind of group. We just want you to be successful.

RJ
Innovation beats imitation - and it's more satisfying

Offline CaptKirk

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Re: Problem
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, »
RTFM!!!  (Read The Full Manual)...  ;) 

 <la..
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Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2011, »
Ok,  I'm having a similar problem with my twelvfth Express.     Built the unit, power test - good lights on 3.3v and 5v leds.  Installed the chips, wired it up.  I installed a PIC plugged in:  3.3V led and 5V led lit.  LED #5 lit as well. 

I had this problem in previous builds.   I unplugged, attached myPickit2, powered up, Ran PICkit 2 v2.61, erased the memory on the PIC, Black Check.  Loaded LE_Firmware_09_2010.hex, Write to PIC, Verify.  All ok.   (I know I'm doing this right because I did it the same way for my eleventh build 2 minutes earlier). 

I remove the Pickit2,   repower and I get the following:

3.3v led lit,  5v led lit.   No startup message.  LED display numerals are blank.   

I power down,  remove the numeral displays and the adjacent chip.  Verify pins not bent and reinstall.   I remove the board from the case, flip, and painstakingly check every solder joing for bridging or poor contact with the board.  No obvious problems.   

At this point, I'm open to suggestions... anyone?

Offline KeithTarpley

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Re: Problem
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2011, »
Greetings,,,

If the 11th built one is right there, can you substitute the chips, one by one, to double check, starting with the pics and the led drivers?

Keith
"Now I know the only foe is time." -Moody Blues

Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2011, »
Good idea...  trying now.

I did try replacing the PIC so I know it isn't that, but I'm going to run through the others and see if it gets me anywhere.

Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2011, »
Ok.   Replaced each of the numeral displays and the display chip one at a time with no result.  Also replaced the PIC without success.  I placed each of these removed items in board 11 and tha board still worked fine.  Do any of the other chips impact on this aspect.  I can certainly do them all, but if it isn't relevant I'd rather not risk  bending up all the prongs removing and inserting them.

I did have some trouble soldering the Triacs on this board (board 12).  The center pole of each just would not blend, even at 380 degrees. I finally got connection (I think) on each one, but they are messy.  There is no bridging at these joints, but there may be a 'layover' or whatever you call it when you get a good sized blob of solder that looks like a clean pyramid, but in reality is just 'laying' on the board rather than fuzed to it.   I wouldn't think that the Triac connection would matter to the booting of the hardware, only with the actuation of actual current to the channels, but if I'm wrong on that score, someone let me know and I'll go back an redo all those joints.   Again, just don't want to be chasing straws that aren't relevant to the problem at hand.

Thanks again for any help.

Offline KeithTarpley

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Re: Problem
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2011, »
Greetings,,,

Just for grins, can you check the H11AA1 chip, below the transformer?

Then, it might help if you can show pics.

Keith
"Now I know the only foe is time." -Moody Blues

Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2011, »
No luck with the 'just for laughs' chip.   Works fine in board 11 as well.   Pics attached.

...man, I love the troubleshooting part of this hobby.  :)

Offline KeithTarpley

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Re: Problem
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2011, »
Greetings,,,

Ok.  Can you check the push buttons, just to make sure they are not physically sticking?

Troubleshooting is where the fun begins....  lol...

Keith
"Now I know the only foe is time." -Moody Blues

Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #24 on: March 13, 2011, »
Buttons appear ok.  They are in the 'out' position, springs working normally.  Obviously I can't be sure about the internals, but they appear fine.

Just for more grins, I switched out the two RS485 Chips at either end of the Cat5 connectors with no change in results. 

Offline KeithTarpley

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Re: Problem
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2011, »
Greetings,,

Can you put a DMX signal into it, and try all channels on?  See if it picks up and turns on the leds?  To try to see if that's working at all, or just a readout issue?


Keith
"Now I know the only foe is time." -Moody Blues

Offline jess_her

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Re: Problem
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2011, »
Hello
I would also look at cold solder joints/ bridging.   I'm no expert by any means but What I have found is to use a good  hot soldering Iron (500F). Getting on the joint hold for 3 seconds then get off in that time you should see the solder flow. A cold iron can lift traces by overheating them by holding your iron to long. The outher thing I like doing is to use machine sockets for the Ic's (chips). Can be a pain installing them, but I also inspect my solder joints with a lighted magnifying glass.
Jess

Oh, I also use flux cleaner.  From my understanding it will conduct current.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, by jess_her »
Only limitations in life is your imagination

Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2011, »
No dice.

I hooked up and did both an all channel test and a sequence test, again using board 11 as a control.   I got LED's and power output on board 11 and nothing on board 12.   I checked for leds on the board to go on as well as actual power at the outlets... nada.   I did verify that the terminator was on (jumped) on both boards.  I assumed the board 12 would default to channel 1, but checked for the whole 128 channels on my sequence profile just in case... again, nada.

Think I'm calling it for tonight, maybe something will come to me in the morning... or maybe something heavy will fall on the board and I won't have to worry about this one...    I really appreciate all the ideas though.  Keep them coming if you have any more and I'll be back running through it again soon.   

So far I figure we've effectively eliminated the LED numerals, the specialty chips, I know all the resistors and parts are in the right place, the PIC is good (or at least I've tried a good PIC in the board.  The LEDs are all directionally correct.  I've double checked the soldering and with the exception of the Triacs it's up to my normally successful (if mediocre) standards.   


Could it be a faulty socket... and if so, how would I check?

I did notice that the decimal on the first (far left) numeral is glowing very faintly.  It's a constant on and was probably there from the begining and I just didn't see it.  It hasn't moved or changed with any of the tests.  No other illumination at all in the numerals. 








Offline mnarel

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Re: Problem
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2011, »
On the soldering....

I've never soldered over 390 degrees.  I'm sure the chip sockets, resistors, connectors, et al are good.  I get good flow at 350-375 for those and have checked them all for clean adhesion and bridging.  (What looks like bridging in the upper left of my pic on the chip that governs the LED numerals is actually glare.).   My Triac, transformer, and fuse joints are always a bit iffy.  I up the temp to 390 on those and have a tough time as the heat seems to bleed out into the rest of the available metal and it takes me a bit to get a good seam.  I feel good about everything on this board except the triacs at this point. 

Can anyone tell me, is it possible that a non-joint in a triac would prevent a proper system boot?    It's on my list to go back and redo all 48 of those joints just to be safe... I'm a bit leary of upping the temp to much more.... I was considering trying it at 410 or 415 but 500 YIPES!

Offline KeithTarpley

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Re: Problem
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2011, »
Greetings,,,

You said the 5 and 3.3 leds are on, correct?  I'd pull out the row of 16 chips to see if there is a problem of some type there.  And I'd also first pull out the 11th LE, so that there's no issue there with the terminator.

I'd also do the full 512 channel output on Vixen, or one of the testing softwares, to insure you're hitting the 16 channels on the LE.  Can't be certain where the start channel is.

Keith
"Now I know the only foe is time." -Moody Blues