Power Supply Question

[taybrynn]

I'm more interested in seeing how people plan to use these power supplies outside and what they are going to weatherproof them in
and maybe how to they exhaust, etc.  I'm also wondering if they stay on 24x7 or if powering up/down is required or not.

To me, unless you buy a modular PS and just install the cords you want, your going to have a bunch of unused wires tied together.

Basically every homebuilt PC out there is sitting around with case full of unused power wires. 

I can understand bankers desire to do this since he got a bunch of PS(s) for $10 and is trying to combine, but I wouldn't recommend this for most, unless you fully know what your
getting into.

[tbone321]

I think that sometimes people need to realize that some things are the way they are.  Most PC power supplies are not designed to be connected in parallel or to have their rails connected that way so if you do it the result can be unpredictable at best.  At best it will work just fine but at worst it can take out the supply, hub, controller(s), and nodes.  The cost of using RGB nodes can add up fast and it really doesn't make much sense to risk hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of equipment to possibly save 20 to 50 bucks.

[CaptKirk]

This is relevant:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It says most "multiple rail" supplies are actually single rail inside, and primarily on the lower end supplies.  It also talks about how some high end supplies (like my TurboCool)  combine two 12V supplies into a single rail.  Maybe this is more doable than people assumed??  Still the BEST/SAFEST thing to do is to do what RJ recommends!!!

[TheBanker]

Oh and I was calling myself an idiot, did not mean Rj was.  Most things I say are in joking form which really is difficult to do in this manner....i could do a bunch of these....

[shaunkad]

This is relevant:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It says most "multiple rail" supplies are actually single rail inside, and primarily on the lower end supplies.  It also talks about how some high end supplies (like my TurboCool)  combine two 12V supplies into a single rail.  Maybe this is more doable than people assumed??  Still the BEST/SAFEST thing to do is to do what RJ recommends!!!

I think this is the info we all have been chasing.

[tbone321]

I really don't think so.  This article is based on PC usage and really isn't relevent to what we are using them for.  While it may be true that many multi-rail supplies may in fact use the same 12V source and filtering, that is not the issue that we are concerned with.  What he did not say was whether each rail used its own regulator circuit and I would bet that they do.  If not, there would be no reason to call it a multi-rail suppy and the multiple regulators connected in parallel would be the very problem that we are trying to avoid.  What it really comes down to is this; RJ and many others have said to use a single rail supply with an output capability exceeding what the nodes connected to it will require.  If people insist on trying to save a few bucks at the risk of damaging hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of equipment then go for it but if it goes wrong, you got nobody to blame for it but yourself.  Good luck.

[CaptKirk]

Absolutely true what you say there.  However if it works, those people using a lower cost and easier to obtain 400-550W PS at $20-$40 are going to be LAUGHING at those of us who went the $200+ PS route because someone said so, then boy won't we look silly.

Of course if the reverse is true, and it blows up lights and hubs, won't WE look like the smart ones.

The difference is "common knowledge" vs "real knowledge".  If someone could explain EXACTLY and scientifically why tieing rails is bad, then I will be a believer.  If someone says "dont do it because I think it might be bad", or worse "because someone else thinks it might be bad" THAT makes me want to find out the reality.  My belief is that in a computer with all common ground connections and interconnections and multiple power connections GALORE, that if someone took an HDD on one rail and connected it to a common connection device that took multiple power in and got power from the other rail (like attached) that it would spontaneously combust.  I would think the PS manufactureres would have thought of that possibility and made sure it was ok (boy I HOPE so!!).

[CaptKirk]

BTW, That picture is an internal THREE SATA drive bay that takes in TWO HDD power conections so you KNOW they are a common power bus to the three HDDs.

[RJ]

Ok this is the way it is,

  I am telling the users that I and a number of people who do know are telling you that it is a bad idea. You could get a power supply do it and have no issues since some supply are listed as multirails and are single. Also some may regulate closely and some do have seperate regulation and no isolation between them.

The aguments that are being made for why it is ok make no sense and ignore the issues.

If you designed the supply so you knew the isolation method and regulation setup ect you would be qualified to make the call but since not one person on this forum meets these requirements it is a shot in the dark a pure random chance if it will work ok or not.

I am saying it is a bad idea.

So if you take a "xyz" model power supply mutil rail with two 12v 16 amps rails and draw 26 amps what happens? Will it load both rails equal?  Will it overload the rail that regulates a little higher voltage and draw much less from the lower voltage rail?

To top this off the idea that the power supplys are cheaper because they are muti rails means people are not looking very hard. I just bought 150 watts of 12v for $150. Or $50 for 50 amps with free shipping. the link was posted here on the forum.

Buying multiple $30 power supplys to get to the power you need is not going to save you.

Also cutting the wires to hook them together I believe would void the warrenty would it not ... Yes, so now if your $40 power supply quits then you can not get it replaced so you are out $40. By making the Hub accept the plugs as is, I on the other hand will simply unplug my supply and have it replaced.

As said do as you want but this is over.

RJ

[trekster]

I just saw this ad.  Funny thing what it says.  "Single, high-power +12V rail eliminates the problems associated with multiple +12V power distribution".    It is 52 Amps for $69 after MIR.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Also a funny combo? "XFX P1-650X-CAH9 650W XXX Edition Modular Power Su and XFX Poker Game Set Bundle" 

Ron

[TheBanker]

What makes no sense is that it says single rail, but in the specs it says +12v, +12v2, +12v3.

[tbone321]

What makes no sense is that it says single rail, but in the specs it says +12v, +12v2, +12v3.

That is because you misread the chart.  While it does have the V2 and V3 spaces, if you look at the current output below these spaces you wil see that they are empty indicating that these outputs don't exist.

[therealbigjim]

And it comes with a poker chip set.....for those that dont listen ti RJ and there stuff goes [/flash]

[TheBanker]

maybe they are trying to say if you buy that supply you are gambling??

[CaptKirk]

Single rail vs multiple rail may be more of an issue than even RJ has considered.  From my research it lookes like there is a a SERIOUS limitation on the current the ATX connector can provide.  On the 20 pin and 24 pin connectors there are TWO wires carrying 12V.  If the HUB only uses the motherboard connector to get power, then that connector is limted to 16A (2x8a on 18GA wire) per the typical wire size to the ATX connector.  If the hub uses the the additional 4 pin connector for the new CPUs then that adds an additional 16A capability BUT that will bridge the power rails in a typical multi-rail power supply and brings the questions we have been asking right back into the mix.  Same problem for using the HDD power connectors to get more current into the hub as THAT will tie rails together also.

So RJ, I have not seen it said anywhere, but it looks like you must specify SINGLE RAIL ATX power supplies to avoid tieing rails via the hub (the discussion above that pissed you off so much), OR you are SERIOUSLY overloading the ATX connector with a partial to full hub and that is a serious danger!

I give up on the dual PS question, but what about a single "good" multiple rail PS that you specify??  And have you considered the wire limitation on the ATX connector? I would love to see the HUB manual (that is currently restricted access on the Wiki) to maybe help answer some of my question that could be a serious hazard (like catching the ATX 12V wires on fire) to all SS users. 

THX