Author Topic: Using Video for Sequencing...  (Read 3356 times)

Offline sielbear

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Using Video for Sequencing...
« on: December 08, 2011, »
I posted this over at the LSP forums, but there are some of you I don't remember seeing at LSP and some at LSP I didn't remember seeing over here.  I actually had a lot of fun creating my sequences this year, and hopefully someone else will benefit from the way I did things this year...

Some of you know that I set out to do all of my sequencing with Video this year. I certainly ran into some issues related to the memory footprint. I think a lot of that is really tied to the number of timing marks it takes to make the show look "good" when using this method.

Generally speaking I'm happy with the results, but I also learned a LOT about what to do and what NOT to do next year. For those interested, here's a link to some videos I posted with the show in real time, along with a picture in picture window of what I generated in Sony Vegas to create the effects you see. There is a small mis-match in timing. I tried to match it up pretty closely, but in some of the fast movement, you'll see where I'm not perfectly synchronized with the real-life show. This was also impacted by the fact that I get 1 or two BRIEF glitches / pauses every now and then. I notice them - I don't know that the average viewer has any clue they occur. I don't know that this actually occurred in either of the videos below as I could just barely hear the audio in the original recording. I put the original audio back in when creating the video.
 
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Let me know if you've got any questions or concerns. I absolutely loved doing the show this way, even with the issues I encountered. You will notice that my pixel strands along the roofline and the arches are running as single color for the majority of the show. I ran into scheduler memory issues when trying to run with full pixel control and the number of timing marks in the sequences. I modified my sequences to run in hybrid mode for the roofline and the arches. You'll also notice that no arches appear in the second video, Rods and Cones as even my simplified sequence caused an out of memory error. I had about 10 people outside and I reloaded an older version that did not have any of the arches sequenced in.

I do think a lot of this can be addressed in the next year, and I can honestly say I had FUN creating the sequences with this method once I learned all the tricks / gotchas.

Offline mmulvenna

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2011, »
Well done, easy to see you spent lots of time learning the gotchas........

Merry Christmas and congrats on a very nice show. <res.

Just to clarify, the videos were used to create transitions, correct? As opposed to using a video as the primary sequence file?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, by mmulvenna »
Thanks
Mike

Offline sielbear

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2011, »
Yes, that is correct.  I put my songs in Vegas, then used the Generated Video effects in Vegas to create generic waves of color.  I also learned VERY early on with LSP that if you're using a mixture of RGB and static elements, you better use primary colors or purple will turn on both red and blue lights at the same time.  Yellow will turn on blue and green, etc.  I also found that there is an absolutely hideous browish yellow that you can get that was just horrific when blown up to the entire house.  Once I saw that color, I knew I had to generate new elements.

Here are some tricks I used:
1.) For ripples of color, use a Blue / blue for a color combination.  Use a BRIGHT BLUE for the foreground and a DARK blue for the background.  Perhaps 0, 0, 255 for foreground and 0, 0, 70 for the background.  That will keep things from "blinking" on and off so much.
2.) Use transparent instead of black for the background.  This lets you blend videos together in a unique way.  If nothing is under a transparent layer, the result will be a black output.
3.) Use the same photo you use for the Light Show Pro sequencer in Vegas.  This will give you an approximation of how those effects will look when applied to the stage.
4.) Simple is better - There are many points where the rendered video makes more sense than the show because my video files had too much going on.  With fewer elements / "pixels", it's hard to understand what your doing on all but the most simple effects. 

I'm already excited about next year, and I'm not even through this year!!

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2011, »
you did a great job! 

it looks like you overlayed transitions.  i haven't seen that yet.  i'll need to look for that, and also the transparency that you spoke of.  (i assume that this is in LSP and not in Vegas, right?)

nice!!
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Offline dmoore

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2011, »
Very nice!  You use some great transitions.

Offline sielbear

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2011, »
Steve-

I actually created 100% of the transitions in Vegas. Absolutely none of it came from lsp stock transitions. I created video the full length of the song, then exported in 30 second clips at 15 fps.  I then put the transitions in lsp end to end on the layers I wanted. I broke the clips into 30 second segments because lsp limits you to 500 frames per transition clip. 30 seconds yielded 450 frames. For songs over 3 minutes, I went to 10 fps and 45 second clips. Much more prior to the 1750 build, I would blow up lsp.

I'm going to put together a more comprehensive how to this summer.

Offline Steve Gase

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2011, »
great info, and you've just helped me avoid some of those frustrating pitfalls.  thanks!!

looking forward to your presentation. :)
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Offline sielbear

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2011, »
One other VERY important gotcha...  Originally I exported my videos at 30 fps, then just specified 15 fps or 10 fps in LSP.  This will produce erroneous timings on your marks.  Typically what would happen is that LSP would not properly keep the transition duration was was defined in the settings.  The layer would be set to exactly 30 seconds, however, I would typically get anywhere from 35 to 50 seconds of effects generated in the sequence, lasting WAAAY beyond where it should have ended.  This made the timings so far off it was unusable. 

The fix?  Make your exported frame rate be IDENTICAL to what you specify in LSP.  I named every single one of my transitions <song initials> <time> <frames>.avi.  My first and second video clips for Rods and Cones were named:
RC 1-30 10fps.avi
RC 30-60 10fps.avi

I also imported the same file name as the transition name in LSP.  I created new groups of transitions for each song.  Trust me, this will *help* maintain your sanity if you want to start exploring this sequencing technique. 

Offline ratroder

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2011, »
love it. looks like you put a lot of time and thought into it.

Offline maffeirw

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2011, »
I had decided to wait to upgrade my LSP 1.8 for a while, but now that I see your show I guess I'll have to upgrade it sooner rather than later. It's to late to switch over this year but it's never too early to start next year. :) 
I'm looking forward to your "how to" this summer.  <pop..
Luceat lux vestra

Offline sielbear

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2011, »
David probably has a love hate relationship with me. I don't know that he ever envisioned someone sequencing with pure video, but I will tell you one thing - he made some fantastic improvements with version 1750.  Don't get me wrong, I still have issues that must be addressed as channel counts and complexity grow, but this latest release is faster, more stable, and more powerful by a large margin. I'm really excited to see what 2012 holds for the hobby, and I really think automation of sequencing is the future for rgb shows.

Offline mikedbom

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2011, »
wow that is really cool.  i would love to see more on how this is done.  the way the show just flows and melts into the next video is quite amazing and far different than your 2009 shows, which are also very good.  thanks for sharing. 

Offline frankr

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, »
 >.d9 >.d9 >.d9 <;d

Someone get me a mop.... That is really incredible! Great job.  Makes me want to use LSP again.


Offline sielbear

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2011, »
Thanks for the kind words! I think there were some things that worked incredibly well and other things that were so-so. I think next years will be substantially better as I have an idea what things will look like once rendered by lsp.

I will definitely be providing lots of information in the coming weeks and months!

Offline rm357

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Re: Using Video for Sequencing...
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2011, »
What resolution did you use for the video?
RM
Robert
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