SSC V2 has an output problem (prev - code has a bug)

[chrisatpsu]

how old are these pixel strings?  early 2011?  late 2011? (before/after sept/oct)  or 2012?

it looks like the first pixel is malfunctioning.

i'd set up a v1, and a v2 ssc with test firmware, and run them, the differences between the two ssc's is about of power provided to the strings. the v2 might be just above, or below that threshold to make it act up.

[jnealand]

I almost thought I had replicated your issue.  I finished putting firmware on 8 V2 SSCs and programming them using the smart string utility and my red pixel 1 would not light up using xlights tester.  I thought it might be the flexstrip so I tried two others and had the same pixel 1 red failure.  I exited all programs on the PC and connected up a V1 SSC and ran the xlights tester again.  This time the pixel 1 red worked.  Swapped out the V1 SSC for a V2 SSC and the red continued to work.  I have now hooked up 8 V2 SSCs connected to 8 flexstrips and all pixels are working as expected.  The only thing I can think of is that I had both the SSC utility and xlights running at the same time which is supposed to be a no-no.  I discovered that after I had exited the SSC utility and then tried to start it up again to change the V1 SSC for this test while xlights was minimized.  I then made sure that all programs were exited and then started over with the xlights utility and I have had no failures at all since then.

[PJNMCT]

I almost thought I had replicated your issue.  I finished putting firmware on 8 V2 SSCs and programming them using the smart string utility and my red pixel 1 would not light up using xlights tester.  I thought it might be the flexstrip so I tried two others and had the same pixel 1 red failure.  I exited all programs on the PC and connected up a V1 SSC and ran the xlights tester again.  This time the pixel 1 red worked.  Swapped out the V1 SSC for a V2 SSC and the red continued to work.  I have now hooked up 8 V2 SSCs connected to 8 flexstrips and all pixels are working as expected.  The only thing I can think of is that I had both the SSC utility and xlights running at the same time which is supposed to be a no-no.  I discovered that after I had exited the SSC utility and then tried to start it up again to change the V1 SSC for this test while xlights was minimized.  I then made sure that all programs were exited and then started over with the xlights utility and I have had no failures at all since then.

Interesting Jim, this is what I thought I saw last year as well but I thought it was just a glitch of some kind.  Just a +1 here.

-Paul

[pk]

Mr. C -

I tried to duplicate your problem using xLights and Vixen but I could not

[MrChristmas2000]

I was referring to the 3 pin connector that some people use to connect the ssc to the node string where you have power, ground, and data connections. If you are using that, and if you have an older version on the pixel string side, and a newer version 3 pin on the ssc v2 side, and an older version 3 pin on the ssc v1 side, it could explain why swapping the ssc could cause a problem as the 3 pin dongle on the ssc v2 side could have wires swapped.

Been there done that as well.

I had recently received another batch of 3 pin connectors this year and those were even different from some I had received earlier and ran into the problem of going by color codes instead of ohmin it out.

If you have the output wired incorrectly the pixels don't work period.

The output works but I am getting incorrect colors and the first pixel misbehaving incorrectly.

Well I tried this today.

I took 2 V1 and 2 V2 SSCs and reprogrammed the PICs, reset the address on each one never closing the utility.

Now I did do 1 thing different and this may have been part of the problem but it's weird if it is, I tightened each of the connectors instead of just plugging them together.

I hooked all 4 to the same hub so they all would receive the same commands and should respond identically.

The pixel 1 problem seems to have gone away in this setup BUT, yep there is that little word.

Each color alone looks ok BUT when you start to mix colors things are not all equal. Especiially when you turn on all colors to make white the white produced by the V1 is different from the white produced by the V2 SSCs.

The Yellows and cyan are close but there is some varriation.

I would have posted pictures but the pixels are so bright they just wash out any differences.

I'm going to put this to bed for now until someone with a mixed SSC V1/V2 environment complains about color differences.

Thanks to everybody for all the input.

[rrowan]

I would venture to say the color difference is a product of the NODES

Each and  every node is different ant there is no fool proof way to build rgb leds without variations.

Sitting them in a room if you look close enough they might all look different but outside during the show no one (but us) will see it.

just my 2 cents

Rick R.

[Steve Gase]

There may certainly be reasons not to do this for your particular setup, but in my mind the best practice for a production environment, and particularly in a testing environment is to have a way to easily swap out elements of your equipment.

I recommend the 3-conductor water-proof connectors to join the SSC to the strings.  Whether you go with 4-conductor or rj45 connectors to join the SSC to the hub, doesn't matter.  Important is that when you suspect strings, you can easily swap a string for another.  When you suspect SSC, you can easily do the same with the SSC.  when you have questions about cables, hubs, and dongles, you have the same ability to perform swaps.

If you can get ONE setup to function as you intend, you make incremental swaps to verify one piece at a time to "bless" each element.

Knowing you from our conversations and from from your postings, I suspect that you have done all of this, Tom.  So my purpose in mentioning this is to encourage others to think about decomposing their equipment into pieces to make it easier to perform this variety of debugging.

When it is suggested that the manufacturing of lights differ, and that explains the variation...  I would expect you to test that theory by quickly swapping with another string -- and changing nothing else -- to see if the strings reflect a difference.  If you think that the ssc v1/v2 difference is the cause, then swap out only the ssc but keep EVERYTHING else the same.

Eliminating variables is the surest way to isolate a problem.

Again, I am sure that all of this is obvious to most people in this forum, but for the one or two that are new to this hobby, it might have some benefit.

[MrChristmas2000]

The color difference is not due to the difference in the strings.

First the strings are well broke in from last season having been used in the mega tree. I know sometimes a pixel fails but I have enough stand in strings if I suspect that.

Second if I swap the strings from the V1 SSCs to the V2 SSCs the color change follows the SSCs not the strings. Some of the color blends are subtle but the most aparent is with the white.

Since I am using them in the string mode (for these test and in my show) the whole string is the same color as pixel 1. This not only test the output of the SSC but the whole string.

Now there may even be something different with the SSC1s because a bird whispered in my ear that they were having color and flicker problems using I believe it was the square elements but when they got their SSC2s up and running that those problems stopped.

I do hope that this adventure is of some value to everybody. Sometimes something may work perfectly in one environment or configuration but behaves totally different in another setup. Even if a product has been beta tested for weeks by dozens of beta testers I bet I could come up with a way to 'breat' it or find the bugs.   

Just look at Microsoft and how many beta testers they have with their operating system and it seems like the minute that the product is released that updates start coming in.

[Steve Gase]

The color difference is not due to the difference in the strings.

First the strings are well broke in from last season having been used in the mega tree. I know sometimes a pixel fails but I have enough stand in strings if I suspect that.

Second if I swap the strings from the V1 SSCs to the V2 SSCs the color change follows the SSCs not the strings. Some of the color blends are subtle but the most aparent is with the white.

Since I am using them in the string mode (for these test and in my show) the whole string is the same color as pixel 1. This not only test the output of the SSC but the whole string.

Now there may even be something different with the SSC1s because a bird whispered in my ear that they were having color and flicker problems using I believe it was the square elements but when they got their SSC2s up and running that those problems stopped.

I do hope that this adventure is of some value to everybody. Sometimes something may work perfectly in one environment or configuration but behaves totally different in another setup. Even if a product has been beta tested for weeks by dozens of beta testers I bet I could come up with a way to 'breat' it or find the bugs.   

Just look at Microsoft and how many beta testers they have with their operating system and it seems like the minute that the product is released that updates start coming in.

Try measuring the output voltage from the SSC using a digital meter and comparing that value for v1 and v2.  I wouldn't bother measuring the data line, just the ground/12v lines.

maybe the visual differences you are seeing are due to voltage differences and their effect on intensity.

[keitha43]

Now this I can confirm. On ssc v1 white is brighter(like a warm white). On the ssc v2 it has a more blueish color(almost a cool white). But just reducing blue won't make it match the color of the ssc v1. You can't tell on just red, blue, or green. With yellow it is really close. With red and blue on their is a big difference. scc v1 is more of a fusia color. SSC v2 is more a light purple so their is more red on ssc v1. With blue and green on, ssc v2 is more a true baby blue and the ssc v1 has a little too much green in it. These are all ip68 pixel nodes Ray replaced in Jan for me. Bottom line there are color differences between v1 and v2 probably due to the increased level they are being driven at. I am not saying the colors are bad but you may want to not mix versions in your display.

[MrChristmas2000]

Try measuring the output voltage from the SSC using a digital meter and comparing that value for v1 and v2.  I wouldn't bother measuring the data line, just the ground/12v lines.

maybe the visual differences you are seeing are due to voltage differences and their effect on intensity.

Ok,

V1 measured 9.70v feeding the string
V2 measured 9.30v feeding the string
Both strings are 85 pixels long.

I even tried using my hub with the largest 700watt supply I have.

It's good to see someone else sees the color difference between V1 and V2.
You may be correct, I may have to use all V2 in my megatree and disperse the rest among a copule other elements.

[tbone321]

Now this I can confirm. On ssc v1 white is brighter(like a warm white). On the ssc v2 it has a more blueish color(almost a cool white). But just reducing blue won't make it match the color of the ssc v1. You can't tell on just red, blue, or green. With yellow it is really close. With red and blue on their is a big difference. scc v1 is more of a fusia color. SSC v2 is more a light purple so their is more red on ssc v1. With blue and green on, ssc v2 is more a true baby blue and the ssc v1 has a little too much green in it. These are all ip68 pixel nodes Ray replaced in Jan for me. Bottom line there are color differences between v1 and v2 probably due to the increased level they are being driven at. I am not saying the colors are bad but you may want to not mix versions in your display.

I don't know what you mean by level.   What you need to check is the voltage output on the 12V side of the controller under load.  If one is putting out less voltage,than the other, I would look at the one putting out a lower volage for bad solder joints and make sure that there are no broken wires in the dongle that could be limiting current flow.  The controller has no control in the shading of the nodes other than sending the commands to the nodes an since both of them send out the exact same commands to the nodes, that can't be the issue.  The V2 sends out a signal that can sustain a much higher load than the V1 but that is not what sets the color.

[Steve Gase]

Now this I can confirm. On ssc v1 white is brighter(like a warm white). On the ssc v2 it has a more blueish color(almost a cool white). But just reducing blue won't make it match the color of the ssc v1. You can't tell on just red, blue, or green. With yellow it is really close. With red and blue on their is a big difference. scc v1 is more of a fusia color. SSC v2 is more a light purple so their is more red on ssc v1. With blue and green on, ssc v2 is more a true baby blue and the ssc v1 has a little too much green in it. These are all ip68 pixel nodes Ray replaced in Jan for me. Bottom line there are color differences between v1 and v2 probably due to the increased level they are being driven at. I am not saying the colors are bad but you may want to not mix versions in your display.

I don't know what you mean by level.   What you need to check is the voltage output on the 12V side of the controller under load.  If one is putting out less voltage,than the other, I would look at the one putting out a lower volage for bad solder joints and make sure that there are no broken wires in the dongle that could be limiting current flow.  The controller has no control in the shading of the nodes other than sending the commands to the nodes an since both of them send out the exact same commands to the nodes, that can't be the issue.  The V2 sends out a signal that can sustain a much higher load than the V1 but that is not what sets the color.

If one difference between v1 and v2 is the resistors being used, wouldn't that translate into the intensity of the pixels at some point?

if the SSC is providing 256 levels for each channel and v1 provides 256 levels over the voltage 0v-9.7v and v2 provides its 256 levels over 0v-9.4v -- wouldn't it be reasonable to expect the strings using v1 to look "brighter" than v2 when everything else is the same?

It was also my understanding that the voltage at the end of a string is lower than at the start -- because each pixel takes out its share of the current.  as a result, there is a subtle difference between the intensity at the start of the string, and the intensity at the end.

isn't the same thing at work here?

The V2 sends out a signal that can sustain a much higher load than the V1 but that is not what sets the color.

I thought red, green, and blue each have different color characteristics when you compare them to the other... they do not evenly lower as the levels are decreased.  so i'd expect voltage to again play a role with color.  if you step "purple" down from level 255 to level 0 by decreasing the red and blue at the same rate, I'd expect the color to SLIGHTLY shift towards blue at one point, and towards red at another point because they are different in how power translates to visible light.

maybe i'm way off on these suppositions.   my wife would tell you it wouldn't be the first time.

[MrChristmas2000]

Mabey I'll just have to diagram out both units and see what the circuit differences is.

There is a difference in color and intensity with rectangles as you go down the line. RJ even suggested that injecting power from the opposite end from the SSC would help and it did correct the intensity and some color shift on my rectangle elements.

The Pixel strings did not demonstrate the same intensity or color shift up the string, the color was consistent on the string just different from strings connected to a V1 SSC and a V2 SSC.

[rm357]

9.7v vs. 9.3v?
I'd start looking for bad solder joints or something going on in the RJ45 pigtail.
The 12v for the strings flows through the ssc, but it should not be reduced or limited by the ssc. Whatever you have at the input should be present on the output.

I'm guessing that the increased drive may increase the current draw a very small amount, but to get a 0.4v drop in output voltage just by swapping a v2 for a v1 ssc tells me there is another issue like a broken wire or you are running it on a 500 ft cable... Which would be a bit excessive.

RM