Author Topic: Can I split the date out put coming from the etherdongle/conductor?  (Read 2882 times)

Offline sittinguphigh

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This is a splitter I was thinking on using. But I read the warning. Is the etherdongle a hub? Will I loose some thing in the split.

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T-adapters for CAT5e (ethernet) applications are great cost saving devices that help to reduce the number of lines needed to connect two distant points.  They ARE NOT splitters in the traditional sense.  You CAN NOT use it to split a single port on a modem, computer, switch, router or hub.  What they do allow you to do is connect 2 ports on a switch, hub or router to 2 different computers using a single Ethernet cable to bridge the two points.
It takes the initial two Ethernet connections from two PC's into the two female ports on the "T" adapter. The male Ethernet cable attached to the "T" adapter, connects to a wall plate/inline coupler/network panel. Then from the wall plate/inline coupler/network panel to the "T" adapter's male Ethernet cable and branches off to two female ports with Ethernet cables connected to and from the Router/Hub/Switch.

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Offline rmp2917

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The EtherDongle has a network chip that allows it to connect to a network. This would be similar to the network connection on a computer that allows it to connect to a network. So, the input side of the EtherDongle is a standard ethernet connection.

However, the output of the EtherDongle is not ethernet at all. It simply uses the pairs of wire inside the CAT5 cable as a convenient method of getting the data signals from one point to another. So, what works for Ethernet does not necessarily work for here.

If you look at the picture of the adapter, only 4 of the 8 pins are present. I don't believe this will work for what you are trying to do.

Offline jeffcoast

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From what I can tell from reading that is, that device will move the pairs used for the ethernet standard to a different set of pairs for one of the ports on the device. Ethernet only uses 4 of the wires in the 8 wire cat5 cable, so this just allows you to use all 8 for a long run and you will have to use the matching device on the other end to split the pairs back to their correct place to have them work. This is what the Lynx Combiner does, moves the wire pairs around to allow a long run between your USB Dongles and a hub, or to split out the output on an etherdongle.

Something like this device should work for splitting pixelnet though. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login reading the description though, seems like the wire isn't very high a gauge so probably wouldn't handle splitting with power on the wires, but between an etherdongle and a hub would.
Jeff Cook
Orlando, FL

Offline jeffcoast

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Reading this thread makes me think the splitter I posted won't work. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login Although I don't know enough about why you need a DMX splitter to tell you why it won't.
Jeff Cook
Orlando, FL

Offline rmp2917

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Depending on your setup, you could use a hardwired splitter. The reason it is not recommended is because it can cause issues with the data signal. I would suggest trying it on your setup and see if it works for you. If you have issues, then look for another solution.

See the following link: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Here is another splitter that may work: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Offline injury

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This is a splitter I was thinking on using. But I read the warning. Is the etherdongle a hub? Will I loose some thing in the split.

I've noticed you've posed a question similar to this in the SS forum previously and I just have to ask because it's had me scratching my head... what is the final end goal of trying to use a bunch of splitters and injectors? Is the main purpose trying to rig up the horse without using an active hub? Between splitting and injecting power here and there or whatever it seems to me you might be making it a bit more complicated wiring wise than it needed to be. I know you had some power limitations to deal with but if you are splitting and reinjecting to power the same number of nodes overall aren't you still using the same amount of juice?


Offline rm357

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The first splitter moves two of the wire pairs as mentioned by another person to make use of the two pairs that are not normally used in a 10/100 network. Gigabit uses all 4 pairs...

The EtD puts one pixelnet universe (or dmx universe) per wire pair.

The second splitter is a simple Y connection. Every time you split, you degrade the signal. You should be able to use 1 of these without too big an issue, just keep it close to the EtD end.

If you cascade them - split a split, you are just asking for trouble. You might get away with it, you might not. You might get away with it today, and it not work tomorrow.

We want you to have consistent performance, not continuous frustration.

Why? Each split creates an impedance mismatch, which creates a reflection in the signal much like a glass to air boundary does to light.  Using light as an example, shining a flashlight through a window pane gives you a reflection. Shining that same light through a double paned window gives you multiple reflections as some of the light bounces between the two panes. Now consider that the data is like a series of pulses of light. All those reflections will arrive at different times to a single receiver - the first bit being received, some reflections, second bit, more reflections from first and second bits... All those reflections make it harder to recover the original data.
Robert
Warner Robins, Georgia, USA

Offline sittinguphigh

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If the signal degrades every split. There must be a limit. The 4 port passive hub split doesn't degrade. Unless there some thing I don't see in the 4 port passive hub that helps it not to degrade. I could use two hubs.

As far as match up the correct cat5e. Is there standard wiring? Like power is in certain wires and data in others.


I figure the easy way is to cut the power wires back at the SSC and insert the power lines using two dc to dc 6v to 12v small converters for each line. I have not found one that has high enough amps to do the job.

Thoughts any one.





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Offline injury

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I guess my thinking on the lights is find the amperage for the show you need. Grab some 12V batteries where weight and space work and wire them up parallel to achieve the amps you need (parallel wiring amperage is additive) and go straight into an active hub. No muss no fuss no split or injecting or anything.

Offline rm357

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You should not cascade passive hubs either. In the passive hub, 1 split point goes to 4 outputs. The really important thing is that it is 1 split.

If you need more than a 4 way split, you need an active hub.

An active hub regenerates the signal and splits it 4 ways - it is actually 4 chips regenerating the signal for 4 outputs each. You can get away with hooking a passive hub to these 4 way splits because the distance between the regenerating chip and the first split is measured in inches and the reflection is easily absorbed by the chip. There is a limit on how many circuits can be driven, so I would recommend against putting multiple passive hubs on a single column (the 485 chip at the top of the board drives the four sockets below it).

I'm starting to feel like a broken record on this topic.

If you don't want to follow the guidelines that have been set forward, then don't. If it works, you got lucky. If it doesn't, you can try something else.
Robert
Warner Robins, Georgia, USA

Offline dpitts

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If you need more than a 4 way split, you need an active hub.

An active hub regenerates the signal and splits it 4 ways - it is actually 4 chips regenerating the signal for 4 outputs each. You can get away with hooking a passive hub to these 4 way splits because the distance between the regenerating chip and the first split is measured in inches and the reflection is easily absorbed by the chip. There is a limit on how many circuits can be driven, so I would recommend against putting multiple passive hubs on a single column (the 485 chip at the top of the board drives the four sockets below it).

Please be aware that the active hubs were designed only for SSC and DSC to be connected to the 16 ports on the hub. If you connect a passive hub to one of the 16 ports you risk damaging the passive hubs pixelnet input so it is neither supported nor recommended. With normal unmodified cables the 16 ports carry power and ground which is not good to send to Pixelnet input of passive hub. 

Edit: The Pixelnet input may not be damaged but I still don't think this is recommended use.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, by dpitts »

Offline sittinguphigh

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Please be easy on me I'm in uncharted waters my friends.

I think I'm not saying it right.  I'm saying split the data coming out of the etherdongle/conductor and then send each line to a 4 port passive hub. Having only two lines being used on each hub. Then send power to each hub from two different converts. Could this work. Or would it in some way degrade the signal.

Yes,no, maybe?

Or should I run one 4 port hub and power the 4 SSC's direct. Disconnect and cut back the power wires on the cables coming from the 4 port hub. I would have to install some inline fuses.
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Offline rm357

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Please look at function and use for the 4 port passive hub in the wiki.

It was always intended to be used off of one of the powered ports from the active hub. The power pins of the Input port are not connected.

It was never intended to be used stand alone with a dongle, but it will work that way.

It was also never intended to be hooked to the pixelnet out port on the hub, but I did that last year and did not have any problems (i needed 20 ssc at the tree and didn't really want to use a second hub).
Robert
Warner Robins, Georgia, USA

Offline rm357

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You can use the 4 pairs coming out of the EtD, but realize that each pair is in a different universe.

No big, just have to make sure you set it up right in the editor you are using.

Are you still planning for 4 strings of 128?
If so you could use pairs one and two and set your addresses to straddle the universe break so that you can work with a contiguous address space.

I.e 3329 to 4864 with strings starting at 3329, 3713, 4097, and 4481

That would be two strings per universe, but you will still need either a combiner/splitter or make a custom cable to move the wire pairs around.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, by rm357 »
Robert
Warner Robins, Georgia, USA

Offline sittinguphigh

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I'm planning to uses 3 smart strings. If things run well and I have the time I am considering a forth.
But two if things go bad.

So the 4 port hub gives you 4 universes. And splitting the data signal by four at the output of the etherdongle/conductor
gives you 4 universes.

And the programming will be a little different. Your have to set each SSC up in a different universe.






What you don't know. Can hurt you.