Do we need to pay a BMI or ASCAP license for our Christmas Shows?

[smeighan]

This subject came up on the LOR forum.

Good News!

We do not need to pay a license fee for home Christmas shows (at least as far as BMI is concerned).

All the Trans Siberian Orchestra songs are licensed under BMI (The other choice was ASCAP).

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I called the licensing department at BMI. Their interpretation is that a home christmas display is NOT a public performance, since it is on your property. He was a little iffy about the fact many people have FM transmitters. He still believed we are fine.

Now anyone who has a light show in any other location than a home probably needs a license. For BMI the license to use is called a promoter license. The band i belong to, Highlands Ranch Concert Band, pays a promoter license. We are a non-profit organization that never charges for our concerts. But, we still need a license.
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The fee is based upon the seating at our events (Churches, high schools, parks). The minimum fee for this license is around $200/year. I think this is up to like 1000 people listening to the music.

If a home were to be considered a public performance then this is the license we would all have to get.

If any of you setup a light show for a church, city park or such you would need a license. Those entities should have the license to cover your show.

For now (and hopefully the future) we do not need a license to play music in our home shows.


If you wonder who owns the license for your music
Here is the ASCAP search engine You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Here is the BM search engine You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

BTW, as stated above all trans Siberian Orchestra music is under BMI


I have a call into ASCAP and will find out their licensing requirements. Hopefully they will be about the same. If they are tighter, maybe i will just play BMI licensed songs since they do not require a license.

I just saw "Christmas Song" by Nat king Cole is ASCAP licensed. This was a song i planned for this next year
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I will wait and see what ASCAP says.

thanks

sean

[taybrynn]

This is an awesome write up on this topic. Thanks!!

[mms]

ASCAP's standards for "public performance" will essentially be the same as BMI's.  I want to say there was a thread on this recently, or maybe I read an old thread recently, on this very same subject.  I believe Demented Elf contacted the agencies and found out the same/similar info.  Basically, if you've obtained your music legally, a Christmas Light Show broadcast falls under "Private Use".

I think the only group that would be upset about using their music for a Christmas display, and not getting paid for it, would be Metallica.  (Tongue-in-cheek.)


Sean-

Does the Highlands Ranch Concert Band have any Christmas stuff?  I wouldn't mind integrating some big band stuff into my display.  That, and we like to feature local artists on KEZW.


Steve

[zwiller]

Finally somebody did the research...  Thanks. 

Was a pro musician some time ago and stayed under radar.  You will find ASCAP now is tighter.  Brought an action to fine a cover band and shut down a winery for lack of licensing in a small town near me.  Was settled out of court but IIRC there were seeking $50k...  This was for a room of less than 500. 

This is the reason alone I will not ever take donations. 

Be sure to *67 when calling ASCAP   

[kfxi]

As a person who owns commercial broadcast stations and who pays ASCAP, BMI and SESAC monthly I strongly suggest you do not call them to ask about  fees you may owe.  They will find you if they decide you owe them money.  Let a sleeping dog sleep.

Ken

[mms]

As a person who owns commercial broadcast stations and who pays ASCAP, BMI and SESAC monthly I strongly suggest you do not call them to ask about  fees you may owe.  They will find you if they decide you owe them money.  Let a sleeping dog sleep.

Ken

Agreed.

[smeighan]

First; imagine how does BMI or ASCAp decide how much money they should pay to artists?

ASCAP currently listens to 60,000 hours of music on airwaves. Their music experts decide who owns the music and then they divy up the pile of money that they gather to the artists. As a statistician , there are a number of problems with their methodology.
You can read this You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login titled "ASCAP & BMI -- Protectors of Artists or Shadowy Thieves?"

There re 2 parts of this licensing discussion.
1st)Do we need a license for music on our home shows, Answer: no.

2nd) What if you want to upload a video of your house lights to you tube or vimeo?

So for #2 i called BMI. They said they have nothing to do with music content in a video upload. But you must contact the publisher(s). This discussion started over on the LOR website because Vimeo has started taking down peoples Christmas video's be cause they have not seen the proof of the highlighted line below:

 On the Vimeo web site it states
Uploading Guidelines
You must have all necessary permissions to upload the video.
You must own or have the right to upload the video.
If the video contains third party content (such as video, music, or images), you must have the right to use that content.
Your video must not infringe third party copyrights or other intellectual property.


So BMI said you can use their search engine to find the publishers of the music. BMI said they have nothing to do with videos uploaded to the net. We must talk to the publisher(s).

In the case of "Wizards of Winter", there are three listed
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Publishers
PAUL O NEILL PUBLISHING   BMI   229222388
ROBERT STELLER PUBLISHING   BMI   179828901
WARNER-TAMERLANE PUBLISHING CORP   BMI   185314175

The BMI person said i would need to contact the third one, as that publisher can give permission for the other two.

So i contacted WARNER-TAMERLANE.

They said you would need permission for any music that is in a video uploaded. The said I would need a synchronoization license. So , i created an account and made a request to upload a video of my Christmas display with "Wizards of Winter".  They did prompt for the name of the publishers, how long a license you want, how much is your budget for your production ($0), how long your production is (3 minutes),

I have not mentioned any of the websites that i visit (vixen, lsp or lor). This is being initiated as a personal request from me to post a video of my Christmas display.

My request is now in their inbox.

i will let u know what they quote for a 1 year synchronization license.

BTW, i would think the amount of work that is done on sequencing our Christmas displays enhances and showcases their music. We are the free advertising they get  where people hear music they may not of heard before. Maybe someday people will be paying us an advertising fee. 

thanks

[mms]

BTW, i would think the amount of work that is done on sequencing our Christmas displays enhances and showcases their music. We are the free advertising they get  where people hear music they may not of heard before. Maybe someday people will be paying us an advertising fee. 

You mean like payola?  LOL.  Kidding.  Although, some record reps wouldn't mind promoting their artists through our work. 

The radio guy in me has been thinking of getting "underwriting" from local business in exchange for a mention in the broadcast.  Not advertising, underwriting - like public TV.  LOL.  I'm sure it just opens a can of worms.  My show close did encourage people to tune in to the station I work at to enjoy the traditional Christmas music for the rest of their evening.

I still think my best bet is to win the lottery and keep everything privately funded. 

[smeighan]

If we got paid anything for our shows  it ptobably would make BMI and ASCAP believe we now need to have a license.

I was just kidding. I think the best would be for the publishers to give us the synchronization license that would allow us to post our videos and they get free advertisement for their music. We stay license free from a BMI, ASCAP perspective and we have the legal rights to post videos to vimeo and youtube.

if wishes were fishes ....
sean